FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[Windfire1010]

I hate Willow Springs and I hate the Alfa Romeo 4c. Still went very well.


The Monza did not go as well as I would have liked even though I finished 3rd.

 

[Chiefy17]

And if they're all D/S players?

That doesn't mean the same in real FIA races. F1 used to award 10 points for a win. Now, it's 25 points. MOto GP award the same. Supercars(recognised as an FIA series) and NASCAR have higher awards points. So, higher points for the tougher to win series?

No, a win is a win, yes? An S room may be the faster class of racers, but that doesn't mean a low rank win isn't just as gratifying. The point is, make the points standardised rather than someone spending an hour of their time and only getting 89 points. Can't tell me one person's time and effort, is more than another's.

I won last Saturday nations race at 5pm got 210pts because I was grouped with 3 s/s plus the rest were c/d...its not my fault I was paired with them so why should I get less points. Yes it wasnt as hard but once again thats not my fault. Unless they can guarantee being matched with people on the same level, which they cant all points should be the same. P.s I was A/S at the time.

 

[05XR8]

Actually you can say one persons time and effort is worth more than another, that’s why there are 1000$ per hour lawyers, and 50$ per hour lawyers. And, you can take this to any single profession, or sport. Do you really think that a D grade driver should be able to collect enough points to make it to the Monaco or Vegas events? It wouldn’t make sense. Basically with the way it is now, the tougher the field you go up against, the higher your points. The reason all the series you have mentionned have a standardised points system is because there is only 1 race, and not 100 lobbies...

So, if a D player never moves up to S rank, but wins as much as an S rank player, they shouldn't get equivalent points? Has nothing to do with going to Monaco. It seems like going to Monaco requires one to be at the top of the ranking. So, going by the way things are, a D player shouldn't go to Monaco anyway. That would be more a requirement than scattered points across "100 lobbies".

The lawyer thing doesn't apply to time spent on Gran Turismo, which is what this is about. We could do a whole big discussion about pay discrepancy, just for being on the other side of the tracks, or gender, or race, or age.

 

[JayOTT]

@MonkeyMan_707 thought I'd point that, if I sound salty after the race, it's more me being frustrated at myself and nothing against you. I ran wide on the last bend and let what should've been a 100% safe P5 slip away, which was just insult to injury for me after having shockingly bad race pace relative to qualifying all race.

 

[vvise]

No, a win is a win, yes? An S room may be the faster class of racers, but that doesn't mean a low rank win isn't just as gratifying. The point is, make the points standardised rather than someone spending an hour of their time and only getting 89 points. Can't tell me one person's time and effort, is more than another's.

Lol. The points aren't there for gratification, they're for ranking.

If a D/S player got matched into an A+/S lobby they would finish in last and collect 0 points. Which is still a lot less than the 92 for a win in their D/S lobby.

 

[mclarenLB]

Well that was fun while it lasted. Bollocks.

 

[HellzFire]

Raced Nations twice. First was a disaster. Second was nice. Good points too for a Latam server.




Manufacturers I had better expectations. Qualified well, went for the no stop. I think you can see pretty much where my heart stops for a bit. Kill me.

 

[Chiefy17]

Lol. The points aren't there for gratification, they're for ranking.

If a D/S player got matched into an A+/S lobby they would finish in last and collect 0 points. Which is still a lot less than the 92 for a win in their D/S lobby.

But how is it a fair ranking system when people of equal ability arent matched correctly all the time?

 

[Windfire1010]

But how is it a fair ranking system when people of equal ability arent matched correctly all the time?

People of equal rank are matched together. You need to have a perfect see rating and a high Dr rating to get into the big point rooms.

 

[Chiefy17]

I

People of equal rank are matched together. You need to have a perfect see rating and a high Dr rating to get into the big point rooms.

I dont doubt that at the big end of town is where the high points rooms are...i just wonder why when I get matched by pd in a room with s/c/d that ultimately my ranking suffers by getting less points as an A/S Its not my fault they matched me there and surely my race time of 19.02 (bathurst) would have netted me more than 200 odd points if they put me in an all A room

 

[05XR8]

People of equal rank are matched together. You need to have a perfect see rating and a high Dr rating to get into the big point rooms.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. All the same ranking in the same race and don't get the same amount of points as a higher ranking room. When it's all said and done, have there been a D/S player in the FIA Finals? A D/S ranked player crowned Champion?

I don't know why PD used the differing points structure. Only thing I can gather is, the points are lower for lower ranking to keep a faster player from using a low ranked(new) account, to then win the series as a D/S player.

 

[Windfire1010]

I

I dont doubt that at the big end of town is where the high points rooms are...i just wonder why when I get matched by pd in a room with s/c/d that ultimately my ranking suffers by getting less points as an A/S Its not my fault they matched me there and surely my race time of 19.02 (bathurst) would have netted me more than 200 odd points if they put me in an all A room

Sounds like you were put in that room because your sportsmanship rating was below 93 points at the time. When your Dr gets that low you are put on the naughty step.

 

[Dodge Lamb]

I

I dont doubt that at the big end of town is where the high points rooms are...i just wonder why when I get matched by pd in a room with s/c/d that ultimately my ranking suffers by getting less points as an A/S Its not my fault they matched me there and surely my race time of 19.02 (bathurst) would have netted me more than 200 odd points if they put me in an all A room

What was your SR at the time? The game will match initially by SR and then match you by DR. You could have a 75,000 perfect A+ rating and still get matched in a lobby with C's and B's if your SR is below 90/99 or whatever the cutoff is. That's what potentially happened with you.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. All the same ranking in the same race and don't get the same amount of points as a higher ranking room. When it's all said and done, have there been a D/S player in the FIA Finals? A D/S ranked player crowned Champion?

I don't know why PD used the differing points structure. Only thing I can gather is, the points are lower for lower ranking to keep a faster player from using a low ranked(new) account, to then win the series as a D/S player.

Hate to break it to you, but the FIA championships are a competitive environment. In order to keep competitive integrity, they have to reward drivers at the top of the ladder with more points than drivers on the lower end of the ladder. You would run into a ton of conflict and lack of skill consistency at a live event if you invited that "C rated driver who won every FIA race in the final season" just because they won every race in the final season. It simply doesn't work that way.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I thought what I was able to pull off with the Group 4 WRX at St Croix was a miracle. Then I did this at Monza with the Group 3 WRX. I may have used up all my strategy and luck for this result.



Nations combo was a surprise good one for me but I didn't have enough time to warm up for it after my shocking Manu race. Really wanted to give it another go but I didn't and given the worse points for the other slots, it was the right call.

 

[Chiefy17]

Sounds like you were put in that room because your sportsmanship rating was below 93 points at the time. When your Dr gets that low you are put on the naughty step.

Hey maybe, although the only info I have from fidel and kudo was a 99 for the day. I know I finished the day before as an 82 so maybe I hadnt climed high enough up the sr chain at race time.

 

[05XR8]

What was your SR at the time? The game will match initially by SR and then match you by DR. You could have a 75,000 perfect A+ rating and still get matched in a lobby with C's and B's if your SR is below 90/99 or whatever the cutoff is. That's what potentially happened with you.



Hate to break it to you, but the FIA championships are a competitive environment. In order to keep competitive integrity, they have to reward drivers at the top of the ladder with more points than drivers on the lower end of the ladder. You would run into a ton of conflict and lack of skill consistency at a live event if you invited that "C rated driver who won every FIA race in the final season" just because they won every race in the final season. It simply doesn't work that way.

I acknowledged it shouldn't work that way. I'm saying the points haul should be the same. The C driver shouldn't go to the finals because of their rating. I'm saying it should be the same points given for the winner of each rating.

If someone plays a game with Championship points(Gran Turismo have this in the past games). It's a standard number of points for each position. Even if there are 100 lobbies, only the top players will have the most points anyway. If there are top 16 players on even points, they still have to win those particular races to advance. Having points awarded based on ranking, in a mixed room, shouldn't matter. It should be the same as an all A/S room.

 

[Dodge Lamb]

I acknowledged it shouldn't work that way. I'm saying the points haul should be the same. The C driver shouldn't go to the finals because of their rating. I'm saying it should be the same points given for the winner of each rating.

That introduces a bit of a bias when you appear to get the same points reward but you get rejected based on rank. Would not work anywhere near as well for clarity.

 

[05XR8]

That introduces a bit of a bias when you appear to get the same points reward but you get rejected based on rank. Would not work anywhere near as well for clarity.

I asked earlier, if a lower ranked driver ever made it to the Finals and/or became Champion.

Also, what I'm being told here is, points are biased towards drivers of higher rank. I'm told, a lower ranked driver won't get high points based on the lower ranked drivers they are pitted against. How is that a fault of the higher ranked driver?

 

[sundaydriving]

I acknowledged it shouldn't work that way. I'm saying the points haul should be the same. The C driver shouldn't go to the finals because of their rating. I'm saying it should be the same points given for the winner of each rating.

If someone plays a game with Championship points(Gran Turismo have this in the past games). It's a standard number of points for each position. Even if there are 100 lobbies, only the top players will have the most points anyway. If there are top 16 players on even points, they still have to win those particular races to advance. Having points awarded based on ranking, in a mixed room, shouldn't matter. It should be the same as an all A/S room.

You're not going to find many A+ players agreeing with you. Standard points would be a step backwards for many reasons and thats not to say the current points system is perfect because it isn't.

 

[05XR8]

You're not going to find many A+ players agreeing with you. Standard points would be a step backwards for many reasons and thats not to say the current points system is perfect because it isn't.

I get it. Thing is, does that mean only A+ drivers are the only ones that have a shot at winning the FIA Championship? What incentive does a D/S player have? I'm not saying they win the most races of the D/S ranked drivers and get a ticket to the Finals. I'm saying they get 100 pts or 500 pts or 1000 pts for just winning one race. The same 1000 points should be awarded to each winning A+, S, B, C driver.

 

[sundaydriving]

I get it. Thing is, does that mean only A+ drivers are the only ones that have a shot at winning the FIA Championship? What incentive does a D/S player have? I'm not saying they win the most races of the D/S ranked drivers and get a ticket to the Finals. I'm saying they get 100 pts or 500 pts or 1000 pts for just winning one race. The same 1000 points should be awarded to each winning A+, S, B, C driver.

Theres no way anyone except the highest rated players are winning FIA championships.

Maybe in addition to the total rankings they have rankings separated by DR? Players can then win the A, B, C and D divisions?

DR resets would make this.... interesting.

 

[05XR8]

Theres no way anyone except the highest rated players are winning FIA championships.

Maybe in addition to the total rankings they have rankings separated by DR? Players can then win the A, B, C and D divisions?

DR resets would make this.... interesting.

Thank you.

That helps with an incentive for winning.

Oh, for sure. I do my Daily races and I go from B/S to A. Now, I have to start over as I'm six races into the Season. I would think the ranking a player started with at beginning of the FIA Season, stays at that ranking for that FIA season. If they move up ranking when the season is over, fine.

That's not what my original post was suggesting. Only for points to be standardised. As you mentioned, the way points are awarded now, isn't perfect. I'm suggesting it be more uniform.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I get it. Thing is, does that mean only A+ drivers are the only ones that have a shot at winning the FIA Championship? What incentive does a D/S player have? I'm not saying they win the most races of the D/S ranked drivers and get a ticket to the Finals. I'm saying they get 100 pts or 500 pts or 1000 pts for just winning one race. The same 1000 points should be awarded to each winning A+, S, B, C driver.

My understanding is that if someone is SR:S with a fast practice time then they will be matching with some of the best drivers regardless of their DR. I may be wrong.

Personally the variety of the FIA races compared to the dailies is why I race, rather than the points. I will race just as hard no matter how many points are on offer.

That said, I think PD have the right idea with the points system at the moment. I want to know how I rank amongst everyone, and that can't happen with different points categories.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Interesting topic.

Perhaps one thing that should be considered is - how many points does someone who gets last in an A+/S lobby earn and how many points does the winner in a D/S lobby earn?

Not trying to sound rude, but the "form-guide" would probably suggest that if those two people were put in a race together, the odds are that the A+/S driver would probably be the better driver and take home the win.
So the question then becomes - How many points should each of those drivers earn for their respective lobbies and finishing positions?

Tough call, but that's perhaps why we see such a discrepancy in points between high and low ranked rooms.


As long as PD don't have "Top 16" races part way through a season, and pay additional points multipliers to that event (because quite frankly that is ridiculous and completely unfair), then I guess I'm happy with the current system.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

I'm saying it should be the same points given for the winner of each rating.

A win in a lobby full of 75000 DR Drivers deserves more points than a win against 1000 DR drivers.

If someone wins their race, against people of the same ability, then well done, no-one is saying it isn't an achievement. Congratulations are certainly deserved for people who perform well against their ability of drivers. But this is a competitive environment and if you have a system where wins in every single lobby, no matter of the difficulty of the lobby, is the same, you will create tanking.

People will purposely lower their DR to get into easier lobbies and get the same number of points as someone winning in the highest most difficult split.

Points are there to rank all drivers. According to your logic, someone finishing 2nd in the highest lobby deserves less points than someone winning against 1000 DR Drivers who would potentially be lapped in the highest lobby.

Oh, and regarding the logic of 'what incentive do D drivers have?', well let's talk about that
- If they are improving, and showing good performances against other D rated drivers, then their DR will increase, and they will become C, and then potentially, B, A, A+. Hence if they actually are performing well, they will get into more difficult and hence more personally competitive lobbies, and gain more points and should gain more enjoyment.
- And another incentive, and surely the biggest incentive is.....to race for fun

The FIA Live Events are there to bring the best of the best. If someone is rated D and is unable to get up from D, then they simply aren't the best of the best. That isn't an insult or anything. Do you really think every single driver taking part in the FIA Races does it because they want to go to Monaco or Las Vegas? No, of course not. You do realise people may just do it for fun, and for a competitive race.

You say 'a lower rated driver has never made it to a live event', and well....yes, of course.
If they were lower rated, that suggests they have a lower ability than other drivers. And well, only a few dozen drivers go to each live event. If they were good enough to compete at a live event, which is for the best of the best, then they wouldn't be lowly rated.

Finally, the idea of 'have rankings for each Driver Rating, like a D championship, C etc' is illogical because driver rating is a linear scale and someone at 49,999 DR (highest possible A rating) is not of the same ability as someone at 30,000 DR (lowest possible A rating). Similarly, 30,000 DR rated and 29,999 DR (B) are pretty identical in terms of ability yet wouldn't be racing against eachother. Once again, that idea promotes tanking so people can feel like they win something, but Driver Rating is a linear scale. The concepts of a letter rank is nothing more than a cosmetic.

 

[MrBrunoA]

Interesting topic.

Perhaps one thing that should be considered is - how many points does someone who gets last in an A+/S lobby earn and how many points does the winner in a D/S lobby earn?

Not trying to sound rude, but the "form-guide" would probably suggest that if those two people were put in a race together, the odds are that the A+/S driver would probably be the better driver and take home the win.
So the question then becomes - How many points should each of those drivers earn for their respective lobbies and finishing positions?

Tough call, but that's perhaps why we see such a discrepancy in points between high and low ranked rooms.


As long as PD don't have "Top 16" races part way through a season, and pay additional points multipliers to that event (because quite frankly that is ridiculous and completely unfair), then I guess I'm happy with the current system.

Imo, the points should favor the tougher A+/S lobbies even more. Last place gets 0 in both and it doesn't matter anyway. However, 10th place in a grid of aliens is usually worth about 1000, but you can get the same points or even more if you race and win in a lobby of A or B drivers, even though finishing 10th among the best of the best will be much harder.

The biggest problem right now is with the DR system and how easy it is to lose DR for nothing. Considering that reaching A+ is tough and skills and experience tend to grow and not shrink, you should never be able to go from A+ straight back to A or B because of an accident, disconnection or SR drop. DR degeneration should be as slow as its growth. Right now you will see A+ level drivers that are being ranked A or sometimes even B wrongly, and sometimes visiting lower ranked lobbies because of SR drops, which creates distortions for the point system.

Once the DR system is more precise in determining the skill level of a driver, the current point system will be more fair. And it'd also encourage the best drivers to race the daily races safely again.

 

[Famine]

My FIA race at Monza: A story in 10 jpgs, one idiot and no red dot:

Lap 1, T1, max braking bang on the 150m marker...

Which was apparently not late enough for my "team mate"...

Who hit me hard enough to turn me into a passenger on a cannonball...

Losing me every position all in one go and eventually ended up costing me 12 seconds (+3 to +15). Gee, thanks.

But thanks to everyone else getting penalties and crashing everywhere, I was up to 6th by half distance, and actually regaining time. This is the point at which I decide to change my pit strategy from 7/8 laps of RH and 3/4 laps of RM to a no-stopper.

And it's also the point every else pits. I've now occupied every single position in this race...

Still in the lead, two laps later. I actually lost it a couple of times, but regained immediately as the person who passed me overshot the next braking point...

Dead tyres, but much of my time loss in this lap was due to the rear-approaching traffic. Also because one decided to hit me in Varianta della Roggia and give me a nice SR Down for staying out of his way on the left turn and having the temerity to still exist on the right turn when he pretended I wasn't there and went for the apex. Three second advantage over 7th is enough, I reckon.

And a last lap penalty for the BMW, which he tries to scrub off by braking at the line... That doesn't work any more, I'm afraid:

No red dot for me, and fifth on a no-stopper. Not bad for being 20th after being corn-holed in the first corner braking zone. And yes, the margin I was behind is much smaller than the time I lost when I was destroyed by a moomin.

 

[Timlour]

I thought what I was able to pull off with the Group 4 WRX at St Croix was a miracle. Then I did this at Monza with the Group 3 WRX. I may have used up all my strategy and luck for this result.

I still can't believe my controller died on me mid-race. If it weren't for that I could've been up there with Jordy battling you. Fortunately I did a lot better on my second attempt and got 2053.

 

[dlshearon]

Raced the last Manu race last night. I’m D/S, in probably my first full lobby of D/S drivers, maybe one S/S. Got pole tried the no stop with the Stang, finished 3rd and got 22ish points.

Last Wednesday I done the Manu race full of S/S -D/S qualified in the back and finished in the last 3-5 spots, got 200 + points. Hope this helps ya’ll debate on points.

It’s a good feeling running up front.

 

[PerformLAB1]

Thank you.

That helps with an incentive for winning.

Oh, for sure. I do my Daily races and I go from B/S to A. Now, I have to start over as I'm six races into the Season. I would think the ranking a player started with at beginning of the FIA Season, stays at that ranking for that FIA season. If they move up ranking when the season is over, fine.

That's not what my original post was suggesting. Only for points to be standardised. As you mentioned, the way points are awarded now, isn't perfect. I'm suggesting it be more uniform.

That would also create an unbelievable number of ties for a season. lets say there are 100 races per round (just using an easy number for the sake of easy maths, I actually have no clue how many there are), by using the idea you are saying, by the end of that night, 100 people would be tied with 1000 points, 100 people would be tied with 900, 100 would be tied with 800, and so forth... Now, being that 4 out of the 10 rounds count towards the championship, nearing the end, you would be sitting there with around 50% of the people tied at 4000 points, 25% tied at a little less, and so forth... The way it is now is not perfect, but it is damn good.

A side note here, S/S is not an actual ranking, a DR S player can be a A+,B,C,D. It is simply a symbolic DR to recognise your results in the previous FIA event. I an S/S currently, but in reality, when being matched, I am a DR A with around 40K points.

The reason racing series work with a standard points structure is that only 1 person can win the race, not 100. Think of it this way instead, yesterdays race had 2500 racers (hypothetical) first place got 2500 points, and it went down from there. because of not being able to fit 2500 racers on one track and one lobby, it is divided by tiers, which in consequence adjusts the points available...