Forza's controls are very loose and the car doesn't feel planted at all when driving.
I agree with this, when using a controller. There was terrible non linearity in the steering in the demo unit I was driving and it was awful. This isn't a physics fault though.
Even with ABS turned on you get stuttering lock-ups under braking which aid in crashing off the track.
ABS can refer to many different systems. Forza isn't wrong in allowing lockup even with ABS on. I'd say it's better at simulating ABS than GT since it actually behaves like ABS. The unfortunate thing is that Turn 10 considers it an aid and so going against realism they handicap it, or that is my understanding anyway.
The ABS system is modeled OK, they just give you one from a 1970's car, and that is a fault.
When steering into corners and out of them the cars feel really loose, I was getting oversteer in a Honda Civic whilst powering out of a corner.
I also tried setting up a car with suspension tunes that I have gotten direct from real life touring car setups so they clearly work in real life. These tunes also work very well in Gran Turismo but in Forza 5 the car was completely undrivable. It veered for no reason and was very difficult to drive.
The grass on the edge of the track is almost like treacle and no matter what you do, even if it is half a wheel, you will get dragged off track and slowed down to 50mph every time without fail. That wasn't mentioned in the video above.
Forza 5 felt like Forza 4 except there was a much less forgiving edge of traction. I say that overall, it's more convincing than GT which has just begun to get things like lift off oversteer. I can't say anything about your Honda Civic experience, but the Fit in GT6 (I believe before all patches) was prety much on rails. The Viper I drove in FM5 would let you know when weight was on one end but not the other and depending on how you applied the weight, it drove differently.
As for the tunes, I wanted to try tuning in Forza but didn't get to it. I haven't tried GT6. GT6 seems to be very wrong when it comes to camber and aerodynamics. I also wonder what conditions the tunes you mentioned were set up for. GT6 to my knowledge still doesn't simulate tire pressure which would need to change a bit depending on track temp. Forza has this setting and if the track in Forza was not the same temp as the real life track, you would expect that there might be a difference in tuning results.
The reason why it is easier to catch a slide in Forza is because of how the game has a hidden aid that keeps the car on track (there are YouTube videos showing this).
This if it is there is probably less of a factor than GT's tire grip modeling.
The handling of the cars is much more arcade like in feel and you don't get the same kind of pull or push on the wheel when driving and it is easier to hold a car when it steps out of line.
I have to say that now I'm getting suspicious. I found myself able to get the 2013 Viper out of line fairly easily in FM5. I could catch it, but it wasn't as simple as just counter steering whenever you felt you were getting loose. You need to time it and modulate how much you were steering. This was on a controller though. I did get to drive a GT6 C7 Corvette, but it hardly ever wanted to get out of line. I was being rough with it though. I'll say that GT6 feels amazing through a wheel, but the cars themselves may not be as impressive.
I haven't played Forza since Forza 4 came out and I took to Forza 5 like I hadn't been away from it at all.
As did I. They feel similar until you get to the edge. This is good because Forza 4 had the physics down already. While on the other hand...
In GT5 I used to be able to drift and powerslide cars any day of the week but it has took me over a month to understand how to do it in GT6 because of the new physics. (which have faded slightly in updates). I played GT5 all the way up until the release of GT6 and it still took some getting used to.
GT is all over the place. That's not a good sign. That Forza is consistent from one game to another may be a sign that they're really nailing the basics. This means in the future they can focus on deeper aspects of the physics and of individual vehicles.
The definitive for me with the handling that backs up my opinion is that my dad has been a profession driver for 8 years (not racing driver). He has played the game with my G27 and he failed to see one single difference between real life and the game other than the lack of Gforces on your body. He doesn't play games at all and he agrees that GT6 is "smack on" in his words.
Did he say anything about or examine GT's grip multiplier tires? The inflated car top speeds? Wheels lifting off the ground under braking? Camber adjustments working opposed to reality?
I can even argue that Forza doesn't look as good as Gran Turismo at times even when it's on the next gen. There is little difference between Forza 4 and Forza 5 in graphics and the lighting is too bloomed and harsh.
Probably. Forza 5 has too many polygons for its own good and even on a giant screen you could have told me that I was looking at Forza 4. Graphics are becoming a pointless investment in my opinion.
Gran Turismo's is more subtle and adds much more of a realistic lighting feel to the track instead of it all being over-bloomed Sepia or really dull blues (this can be seen on their rendition of SIlverstone). The lighting engine in Forza 5 isn't as good as the one found in GT4 but the car models excel.
I can see this.
The Forzavista system makes Gran Turismo's Gallery View look like it was modelled by toddlers. However. The GPU of the Xbox One is far superior to the one of the PS3 but when on track the game doesn't look anywhere like it's menus. A good comparison is seeing a game advertised on tv and you see it say "Not actual gameplay" and that applies to Forza 5.
System specs or not I really wish the demand for ultra high poly models wasn't there, but I'm just going to have to accept it. GT5 looked good enough for me, even the standard cars, but that is considered subpar today and the graphics war goes on.
The track models in Forza again don't look as good as GT's and there is little to zero road feel when driving in Forza. As I said, the cars are very light and floaty on track and the game seems really easy to play in comparison.
Floatyness should be present on a mass suspended on four springs that are in turn resting upon four other springs. The lack of floatyness in GT is a problem in my eyes.
Yes Forza has grass at the edge of the tracks but you don't see it when you're doing 150mph anyway so it's pointless and taking up room on the GPU. As mentioned there is treacle physic grass too. When you go to cut a corner or out-brake yourself and accidentally cut a chicane you go from 100+mph to 20mph instantly no matter if it was accidental or not.
I actually didn't see the sticky grass in FM5. If it's there, this is a major disappointment for a sim racer.
If I was scoring the scores in the video I would give Forza 8 and GT 9. Forza does have some very good aspects to it which beat GT hands down and which I had some good fun with but in terms of simulated driving and feel of the racing in general Gran Turismo wins without contest.
I'm really having a hard time accepting this. Now admittedly my time with GT6 was limited, but not so limited that I could have missed all the things that would have been required to change from 5 to 6 to really make it a competitive sim. Have the updates really changed the game so much, or what?
I am completely indifferent for both games, as I said I have a spilt forum for both of them, but I still feel that GT is the slightly better game at the moment. I have often thought that if money was no issue then I would happily own both games and consoles to play both games equally because with what Forza does badly, Gran Turismo makes up for it and vice versa.
For me, the X1 cars make GT tempting despite its shortcomings, and traditionally GT has been said to feel better with a wheel. I know that GT6 feels very, very good, but I don't know what Forza feels like.
If GT doesn't pick up it's game soon though then it will soon fall behind other games. You can't take a game seriously that has 'Standard' car models for much longer.
I think this is the least of its worries. Even if you ignore people like me who would rather have standards than Autovista, as a simulator GT has bigger things to worry about (unless they've all been patched while I had my back turned). Forza is at a point where it could be a PC sim competitor if it had more options.