Gran Turismo 7 “Power Pack” Paid DLC Now Available: New Races Including Endurance Events, Qualifying, and “Sophy 3.0”

[art3mis]

Just because they are driving the same car doesn't mean they are driving the same spec of the car. This is pretty obvious e.g. with the 2-chili Elantra opponent which is much faster on straights. So, to spread the field out, they might have nerf'ed the 2nd place car a little. Doesn't mean the AI driving the cars is not behaving the same.

That's even worse.

OK, so I ran my test of GT ONE Le Mans a few minutes ago. Same as last night. Zero Practice Zero Qualifying. Here's the shot:

The exact same qualifying order, almost the exact same times with a +- of about 0.250. This proves to me that without human intervention the AI plays out exactly the same each and every time.
That's not even remotely AI that's 100% a script.

That got me wondering, what happens when you try to flip the script?
Headed over to Tsukuba for the AE86 race. Took pole with a time of 59.xxx, T. Miyazono was in 2nd with a time of 1.00.xxx. Less than half a second separated us.

He jumped ahead at the line and entered T1 ahead of me. I rammed him and pitted him off track. Remember, this is a test
I wanted to see if the car "scripted" to be 2nd would actually be 2nd if I dumped him so hard he was off screen on my leader board to start the race.

Assuming he was 10th exiting T1 here's the finishing order:

It's clear to me there's a predefined finishing order to these races. There's no way that Miyazono is so much faster than the other drivers that not only he would climb to 2nd in 10 laps of 1 minute or less AND ALSO gap 3rd by 10 seconds without being programmed to do exactly that.

We're not racing any kind of AI we're racing a set script of finishing order and the only thing that changes that finishing order is the human actions of ourselves.

I'm literally just shoving cars off to finish everything that isn't an endurance race.
Once I unlock those I'll play them once, probably by sandbagging and letting myself get lapped a few times to start just to have some fun catching them.

I tested the Group C Le Mans 24 by not qualifying and I can catch the leader and pass him by lap 8. Once I'm passed there's literally never a challenge in this race. Might have to do the math to figure out how quickly that catch actually was, convert that to how many laps down I can start, and see if I can lead this thing no sooner than hour 23.

 

[Lomic]

There's no way that Miyazono is so much faster than the other drivers that not only he would climb to 2nd in 10 laps of 1 minute or less AND ALSO gap 3rd by 10 seconds without being programmed to do exactly that.

Did you watch his replay, and the replay of AI that finishes 3rd ? To see what lap times they were achieving ?

 

[pabloprp69]

Don't listen to the haters. I'm almost sone the branches and I'm more than satisfied. People are making inaccurate generalized statements. The difficulty is varied, and that's a good thing. Try 1 pepper first, if it's too hard, start again on 0 peppers and work your way through it.

I'm no hater by any means. I was very excited for this pack and for what PD had announced.

It is reasonable to say, though, that this Sophy update is a regression compared to 2.1.

As I said before, this is not what they promised. Personally, I knew what Sophy 2.1 was capable of, and the next step of that would be amazing. That's my frustration. As others have said, this AI feels like the base game AI with some tweaks. At the end of the day, you are beating races 10, 20, 30s ahead.

 

[Voodoovaj]

You have a strong habit of making people with valid criticism out as haters.
There is plenty to dislike about the pack format.

Ultimately, the 2 pepper chilli racing is artificial. It might be close, but it's not real racing. You are usually down 150hp, and slow in the straights to make up for the fact the AI is slow in the corners. Sometimes you have more power, but no brakes, allowing the AI to gain the time there instead.

I barely won the muscle car race at Road Atlanta on 0 pepper. One person's "artificial" is another person's close race.

I'm no hater by any means. I was very excited for this pack and for what PD had announced.

It is reasonable to say, though, that this Sophy update is a regression compared to 2.1.

How so? I don't see how that's reasonable at all. First up, for most people, this is the first taste of Sophy in any type of curated event. For those of us in the custom races, we use the boost to make it interesting. I haven't seen the DLC Sophy make up ground like boosted 2.1 does.

Apples and oranges.


Maybe it's obvious to me, and not to others, but this DLC is for entertainment purposes. "Real" racing happens in Sport Mode where you race real people. That's in the "Daily Race" thread. Oh, I know, I can hear it now, "Sport Mode is awful", but those are REAL people racing for REAL. Is that what you were hoping for from the DLC?

 

[pabloprp69]

So you're saying the power pack doesn't provide "real racing"? Then can we agree that is not what was advertised ?

 

[Gerarghini]

So I know it's labelled as "Power Pack I," implying that more may be on the way, but I'm a little salty PD didn't get to use more of the cars on offer to curate races based on IRL events

Like no events for the 2016 Le Mans LMPs? Or no Super GT events at all, 2008 or 2016 (throw in the Audi DTM and make it like the DTM x Super GT crossover)? What about Super Formula or classic F1 races?

I hope these kinds of events are included in Power Pack II (though, PD, for the love of God, please don't make it another $30; PP I ain't worth $30 in my opinion).

 

[SpacedInvader]

As is all-too-familiar with PD, they have something on the cusp of being pretty darned great, but refuse to make the final, obvious tweaks to achieve that greatness.
The chilli races NEED penalties for track limits and heavy car/wall contact, otherwise it's just too easy to cheat, even unintentionally. If someone beats the two-chilli races I want to know they drove brilliantly, not wonder whether they might've cut across corners or slain Miyazono?

The base game needs it too*; the Tokyo 12-lapper used to give 5 sec pens for even slight wall contact (actually 8 secs lost by end of straight) and that was heaven.
But the PP definitely needs it ASAP.

*Hard Difficulty shouldn't mean a slightly faster rabbit; it should mean driving a clean race within track limits and with no car-to-car contact.

 

[Batschisane52]

I bought it but haven't started it.

This thread's not inspiring me with hope.

I did it the other way around, din't read anything in this thread before I started playing the PP...

 

[snowgt]

It's clear to me there's a predefined finishing order to these races. There's no way that Miyazono is so much faster than the other drivers that not only he would climb to 2nd in 10 laps of 1 minute or less AND ALSO gap 3rd by 10 seconds without being programmed to do exactly that.

You said he was only half a second slower than you in qualifying. That means he was way faster than the rest of the field, so why should he not overtake them in a 10 lap race when he was between 1 and several seconds faster than them? Your bumping him off probably only lost him a couple of seconds, even if it was several places.

In all races I tried so far all cars were pretty much on the same pace as they were in qualifying. I don't know how you call this "a script". It's just the outcome of how the cars are tuned for each individual Sophy driver.

 

[Batschisane52]

So you're saying the power pack doesn't provide "real racing"? Then can we agree that is not what was advertised ?

Problem is, you can ask 10 people how they define "real racing" and end up with 10 different answers...

 

[05XR8]

We're not racing any kind of AI we're racing a set script of finishing order and the only thing that changes that finishing order is the human actions of ourselves.

Blame me. I think I actually suggested something like this. It was regarding implementing real races that took part in real life. Just input all the racers times and finishing order. All the player has to do is pick whatever driver and have the race play out as designed.

 

[mynameis66]

Did my first race in the PP.Went and with the zero chilli pepper option on FF tuning race.Qualufied 4th,fluffed the start big time and finished 3rd.Enjoyable race.Willow Springs was a nightmare for me,its one of my bogey tracks.qualified 8th anf finished in 8th.I found it hard work bit still enjoyable,sophy much better than the regular ai but not perfect.I think the level of my skill is with the zero pepper races! All in all pretty good from what ive seen so far,happy with my purchase.👍

 

[Nebuc72]

Friend of mine (French) has completed all the events in the pack, barring the endurances.
We noticed that he is still missing a reward.

I think that might be game-on for a reward for completing them all. Would make up for the payouts!

 

[Lomic]

Friend of mine (French) has completed all the events in the pack, barring the endurances.
We noticed that he is still missing a reward.

View attachment 1498351

I think that might be game-on for a reward for completing them all. Would make up for the payouts!

it shows chilis if you won on 1 or 2 chilis level ? Are the chilis gold, silver and bronze ? And under that what does it show ?

 

[Voodoovaj]

So you're saying the power pack doesn't provide "real racing"? Then can we agree that is not what was advertised ?

Were you expecting people? As far as I know, all "real racing" is against people. They have emulated the GTWS with a good AI. Is it artificial? Yes, that's what the "A" in AI stands for.

I have raced the AI many times in the DLC. Sometimes, I am much faster than it, sometimes, it is much faster than I, and sometimes we are pretty equal and we race. That's how real racing plays out. If you disagree, go try Sport Mode and see for yourself.

Friend of mine (French) has completed all the events in the pack, barring the endurances.
We noticed that he is still missing a reward.

View attachment 1498351

I think that might be game-on for a reward for completing them all. Would make up for the payouts!

Must be. +20 for each endurance would give you 1000 stars, and it would make sense that 1000 stars unlocks something.

Damn, now I have to actually do the endurance races.

 

[Nebuc72]

it shows chilis if you won on 1 or 2 chilis level ? Are the chilis gold, silver and bronze ? And under that what does it show ?

It just says 2nd, 3rd etc. if you come 2nd or 3rd. No coloured chillis.

 

[CoyoteX]

May i ask a OT question. If i buy this pack on PS5 with GT7 PS5-Version, can i still play GT7 on my PS4, which i have in another room, with the same savegame on the GT Servers (without the DLC of course) or do PS5 and PS4 versions go seperate ways now?

 

[timekiller001]

May i ask a OT question. If i buy this pack on PS5 with GT7 PS5-Version, can i still play GT7 on my PS4, which i have in another room, with the same savegame on the GT Servers (without the DLC of course) or do PS5 and PS4 versions go seperate ways now?

It's an entirely separate mode. I haven't tried, but I would fully expect it to work as it did before.

 

[CoyoteX]

May i ask a OT question. If i buy this pack on PS5 with GT7 PS5-Version, can i still play GT7 on my PS4, which i have in another room, with the same savegame on the GT Servers (without the DLC of course) or do PS5 and PS4 versions go seperate ways now?

It's an entirely separate mode. I haven't tried, but I would fully expect it to work as it did before.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Lomic]

It just says 2nd, 3rd etc. if you come 2nd or 3rd. No coloured chillis.

So when it is a 2nd, 3rd place or else, you don't see if it was on 0, 1 or 2 chilis.

 

[samsaoule]

May i ask a OT question. If i buy this pack on PS5 with GT7 PS5-Version, can i still play GT7 on my PS4, which i have in another room, with the same savegame on the GT Servers (without the DLC of course) or do PS5 and PS4 versions go seperate ways now?

It's not certain... since you have to update the PS4 disc to play on the PS5... (I just did it, it costs €10...)

I'm not sure that once the disc has been upgraded to PS5, it will still be compatible with the PS4...🤔🤔🤔

 

[timekiller001]

I'm not sure that once the disc has been upgraded to PS5, it will still be compatible with the PS4...🤔🤔🤔

The upgrade does nothing to the disc, it will work the same as before on PS4. For the upgrade versions (which are the download editions of games), the disc just acts as the key to start it.

 

[art3mis]

You said he was only half a second slower than you in qualifying. That means he was way faster than the rest of the field, so why should he not overtake them in a 10 lap race when he was between 1 and several seconds faster than them? Your bumping him off probably only lost him a couple of seconds, even if it was several places.

In all races I tried so far all cars were pretty much on the same pace as they were in qualifying. I don't know how you call this "a script". It's just the outcome of how the cars are tuned for each individual Sophy driver.

Because it's exactly the same every time. Miyazono finishes 2nd every single time, unless he beats you. There's no universe where he doesn't finish 2nd even when you knock him so far off track he's dead last to start the race. That's a scripted result. Whether or not the game achieves that script via hard coding it or via sandbagging the other cars doesn't matter at all, it's scripted to finish the way it finishes.

There's no reason to tune individual cars to each Sophy driver for the PP when you can just use the same Sophy 2.0 that exists in the base game and provides great custom racing. Tuning them individually is PD admitting that Sophy 3.0 is a failure and that hard coded results is the only thing they can figure out.

I also tested at Tsukuba what happens when you spin someone headed into a hairpin.

If the spin takes them to the outside of the corner they rejoin before the hairpin. If the spin takes them to the inside of the corner they cut across the track and rejoin on the other side. They're scripted/programmed to take very specific lines through these corners and if you force them to deviate they literally wreck themselves and others to get back on script.

 

[samsaoule]

The upgrade does nothing to the disc, it will work the same as before on PS4. For the upgrade versions (which are the download editions of games), the disc just acts as the key to start it.

OK...thank.....

 

[CoyoteX]

It's not certain... since you have to update the PS4 disc to play on the PS5... (I just did it, it costs €10...)

I'm not sure that once the disc has been upgraded to PS5, it will still be compatible with the PS4...🤔🤔🤔

I never had a disc. I bought in March 2022 the digital version (PS4 and PS5) for my PS4. At that time i didn't have a PS5. Last year i bought a PS5 and i could install the PS5 version and everything went fine. I also could switch to my PS4 in the other room and could play there with the savegame. It took a few seconds till the savegame was downloaded from the GT Servers. And vice versa when i went to my PS5. But it was the same game. Now i don't know what will happen (e.g. the credits earned in the power pack, will they appear on my PS4?). PD should offer a FAQ where everything is explained in order not to lose my savegame.

EDIT: @timekiller001: Thanks again.

 

[SpacedInvader]

I never had a disc. I bought in March 2022 the digital version (PS4 and PS5) for my PS4. At that time i didn't have a PS5. Last year i bought a PS5 and i could install the PS5 version and everything went fine. I also could switch to my PS4 in the other room and could play there with the savegame. It took a few seconds till the savegame was downloaded from the GT Servers. And vice versa when i went to my PS5. But it was the same game. Now i don't know what will happen (e.g. the credits earned in the power pack, will they appear on my PS4?). PD should offer a FAQ where everything is explained in order not to lose my savegame.

EDIT: @timekiller001: Thanks again.

Everything will be saved. You just won't be able to access the DLC when you're playing on the PS4 (like you can't access the normal Sophy quick races on PS4 either). If you want to play the DLC you'll have to be on the PS5.
You WILL be able to drive the prize cars from the DLC on the PS4 once you've won them and got them in your garage. Don't worry.

 

[VVS_cz]

Hi, I’d like to share my experience with the Power Pack. To make my perspective clear: my current Driver Rating is A/S. My rating depends on how often I practice, if I spend 2–3 evenings a week in Sport Mode, I’m comfortably in the middle of A class. I’m able to reach A+, but that requires far too much time and isn’t sustainable for me in the long run. I’m also fairly strong in online Time Trials; within about 2 hours I can usually set a time that still remains in the top 1000 after 14 days. Overall, I have more than 1700 hours played in GT7.

The difficulty of the Power Pack feels quite confusing to me. So far I’ve completed around 10 races (the ones that lead to the Skyline, Supra, and AE86). I’ve run all of them on difficulty level two (two peppers). Some of them were difficult, but after about an hour of practice I was able to qualify first and then win the race. However, in some races I’m unable to qualify first even after several hours of attempts (FF tunning Battle, Hatchiroku on Fuji), which is confusing to me because at two peppers the cars in these races are very easy to drive, have excessive grip, and allow very aggressive throttle usage when following the ideal racing line without losing control. I have absolutely no problem controlling the cars exactly as I want, yet even with a perfect line and dozens of attempts I’m not able to qualify first. Especially on long straights, the fastest AI (usually Miyazono) pulls away and gains several tenths per lap.

Based on my online Time Trial experience, I therefore assume that at two peppers the AI in some races is performing at the level of the world’s top 200–300 players. The situation is made even harder by the fact that the AI then repeats its best qualifying lap in every lap of the actual race. So it’s not just about putting together one perfect qualifying lap, but about learning to drive an entire race at this brutal pace. Another factor that makes things harder is the standing start. I start in 1st or 2nd gear, full throttle (or applying throttle as the lights go out) with TC at 1, and every time I get overtaken by 2–3 cars starting behind me.

Overall, I rate the Power Pack positively, it’s definitely a challenge. However, on two peppers it feels like some races are genuinely unwinnable if you drive cleanly. Maybe some of the world’s top 200–300 players could win them, but even that I’m not entirely sure about. It’s obvious that the AI is using more powerful cars, which is most noticeable in groups of cars that are easy to control – cars that I can drive very close to 100% of their potential, yet the fastest AI (again, usually Miyazono) still pulls away without any issues.

Do you have the same experience, and has anyone managed to figure out how to get a better launch off the line during a standing start?

 

[CoyoteX]

Everything will be saved. You just won't be able to access the DLC when you're playing on the PS4 (like you can't access the normal Sophy quick races on PS4 either). If you want to play the DLC you'll have to be on the PS5.
You WILL be able to drive the prize cars from the DLC on the PS4 once you've won them and got them in your garage. Don't worry.

Good explanation. Thanks. I will be confident.

 

[Yellow Tabby]

If Pack 2 (including the GTWS penalty system and strategy-based events) is released within six months, and both packs sell over 2 million units, they will naturally develop 100,000 online Class-B level drivers.

Is Sophy 3.0 qualified?
As an artificial intelligence driver, it is not fully qualified, and in some areas, it is even quite dumb.

However, by providing six paths with different levels of difficulty, it can accompany millions of casual players at various skill levels, as well as all players below online Class A, helping them earn every reward and complete the two-chili challenges.In that sense, Sophy 3.0 is qualified.

 

[JDMKING13]

So when it is a 2nd, 3rd place or else, you don't see if it was on 0, 1 or 2 chilis.

What ever place you take you see.. His friend took 1st in all those events doing it with the 2 pepper 🌶️ vehicle/difficulty EXTREMELY impressive.. only race he didn’t do it seems are the 4 endurance races.