Gran Turismo Physics(Poll)

[YZF]

<delete>

 

[super_gt]

@Vspectra here is two videos with torque steer on wet:

 

[noseknows36]

If Nissan are willing to let the winners of GT Academy drive their race cars in competitive and serious races, then I think GT has physics that can be labeled as simulation. Sure they're not perfect, but they're pretty damn good

 

[Randy Winston]

If Nissan are willing to let the winners of GT Academy drive their race cars in competitive and serious races, then I think GT has physics that can be labeled as simulation. Sure they're not perfect, but they're pretty damn good

Out of all of those drivers, I'd bet there are exactly zero who learned the dynamics of a car and how to drive one solely from GT. They're all likely guys who raced karts or did autocross or something and then drove GT like they would in real life. They could probably do the same thing with Forza or pCars. The fact of the matter is that there are some shortcuts that GT, Forza, pCars all take to mimic the real thing, while rFactor2, Assetto Corsa, and Game Stock Car are genuine. But that comes at a cost. The simcade ones do it because the know that 90 percent of the end users don't care if the slip angle the car breaks traction at is within a degree of the real thing. The real simulators obsess over things like this because they want to give their end users the ability to create the real thing and put it in their sims because modding is half of what sims live off of.

 

[super_gt]

Camber angle 10.0
Do you guys see any tire flex,because I can't.
This is why we need tire air pressure simulation.

 

[super_gt]

One very interesting interview.
It is worth to watch the whole interview.

 

[raweer]

hi mate,
this evening is maybe not a good time for car-physics ... but train-physics is welcome
BUT (besides the joke)
I'm still watching it ... perhaps, it's a little bit hard to hear for the guys in this part of the forum ... this is serious stuff, no gaming anymore.
And this point is important: in iRacing, i haven't that much fun as in GT6 - these are different worlds, like hobby and work.
thanks for sharing, r.

PS: the host is really terrible ...

 

[super_gt]

hi mate,
this evening is maybe not a good time for car-physics ... but train-physics is welcome
BUT (besides the joke)
I'm still watching it ... perhaps, it's a little bit hard to hear for the guys in this part of the forum ... this is serious stuff, no gaming anymore.
And this point is important: in iRacing, i haven't that much fun as in GT6 - these are different worlds, like hobby and work.
thanks for sharing, r.

PS: the host is really terrible ...

This is the most exciting and honest assessment for all best racing games at the market (GT,rF2,iRacing,AC)compare to the real world of driving,it"s a great video

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I want real-life tire choices, not this fake CH, CM, CS, etc...

Give me Dunlops, Michelins, BF Goodrich, Pirelli...

 

[TexasTyme214]

I want real-life tire choices, not this fake CH, CM, CS, etc...

Give me Dunlops, Michelins, BF Goodrich, Pirelli...

This would be really cool, but it'd be a licensing nightmare. With the Yokohama partnership, I feel like it's possible to get some of their real tires in game whether they are everyday tires, sports, semi-slicks, racing slicks, etc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is the most exciting and honest assessment for all best racing games at the market (GT,rF2,iRacing,AC)compare to the real world of driving,it"s a great video

I started playing another game which shall remain nameless, and I avoided the FWD car (there's only one) because I kind of assumed it would be like in GT, understeering on entry, no lift off oversteer, etc. Finally took it out and wow, it was so much fun to drive!! Here's a picture of it entering a corner (ignore the custom livery, the car was showroom stock on street tires):

Dat inside wheel lift GT needs this kind of physics!

 

[phosphor112]

There are a lot of things that still need to be simulated. Torque steer isn't even simulated yet, which is very disappointing. It's these missing calculations and the expectation (especially from PD) to achieve AND exceed real life times (e.g. Ayrton Senna's times...lol) makes me feel this isn't simulation. I don't find it "simcade" but the simulation can be improved a lot.

 

[super_gt]

Last week I play GT6 1.00/1.02 version street cars mostly FFB was good I could feel weight distribution under braking,
when accelerating rear end kicking more when pushing car over the limit suspension react better(realistic)more wheel spin, after 1.12 update GT6 looks arcade to this versions:tdown:

 

[332i]

Last week I play GT6 1.00/1.02 version street cars mostly FFB was good I could feel weight distribution under braking,
when accelerating rear end kicking more when pushing car over the limit suspension react better(realistic)more wheel spin, after 1.12 update GT6 looks arcade to this versions:tdown:

You posted that in another thread. To be clear, if anything is better...it is the FFB by default, because of the current screw up and that's it. The physics are not better. The cars do not react to a single thing better, in any sort of manner. May have felt better to you, but that doesn't mean it is actually, physically and tangibly better. And it is not.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You posted that in another thread. To be clear, if anything is better...it is the FFB by default, because of the current screw up and that's it. The physics are not better. The cars do not react to a single thing better, in any sort of manner. May have felt better to you, but that doesn't mean it is actually, physically and tangibly better. And it is not.

The physics have changed since 1.01, especially with MR cars, it's in the documented changes from PD. Perhaps Mr. Oversteer is referring to that aspect of the game.

 

[super_gt]

You posted that in another thread. To be clear, if anything is better...it is the FFB by default, because of the current screw up and that's it. The physics are not better. The cars do not react to a single thing better, in any sort of manner. May have felt better to you, but that doesn't mean it is actually, physically and tangibly better. And it is not.

What determines when you reach the limit what will happen(understeer, oversteer)FFB or physics engine?

 

[332i]

The physics have changed since 1.01, especially with MR cars, it's in the documented changes from PD. Perhaps Mr. Oversteer is referring to that aspect of the game.

IDK what youre trying to point out or correct here, but to clarify for anyone who reads - where I say the physics are not better...I am saying that the physics in 1.00/1.02 are not better than current, obviously. Super_GT is referring to the aspect of FFb in the past being better than the current. You know full well, from past threads and arguments with me, that I am very aware of physics updates in GT6 lmaooo.

 

[332i]

What determines when you reach the limit what will happen(understeer, oversteer)FFB or physics engine?

What answer are you looking for here, because you've designed the question to get just that - one and you think it'll be the answer you want to prove your point. You say this and that better - better - better. How do you figure the suspension reacts better? I think the word your searching for is easier. This is a stupid argument to bother with - old physics making the new ones look arcade-esque? I can't even believe someone is willing to debate it, let alone believe/claim it to be so.

 

[super_gt]

What answer are you looking for here, because you've designed the question to get just that - one and you think it'll be the answer you want to prove your point. You say this and that better - better - better. How do you figure the suspension reacts better? I think the word your searching for is easier. This is a stupid argument to bother with - old physics making the new ones look arcade-esque? I can't even believe someone is willing to debate it, let alone believe/claim it to be so.

I do not judge physics engine by the FFB.
Current physics is easier to drive(less rear tires lock during braking,less wheel spin during corner exits,more sliding in low speed,more understeer in high speed,less suspension disturbing)

 

[R3XNiSMO]

Camber angle 10.0
Do you guys see any tire flex,because I can't.
This is why we need tire air pressure simulation.
View attachment 186296 View attachment 186334 View attachment 186336 View attachment 186338

PD might not VISUALLY simulate tire flex, but they certainly simulate the effects of tire flex. From slip angles, cornering force, to camber grip, if they didn't simulate tire flex effects, cars would only go straight, and not a single car in the game would be able to go around any corner. They simulate tire properties with air, just its not adjustable. Its like caster, its simulated, but not adjustable.

 

[super_gt]

PD might not VISUALLY simulate tire flex, but they certainly simulate the effects of tire flex. From slip angles, cornering force, to camber grip, if they didn't simulate tire flex effects, cars would only go straight, and not a single car in the game would be able to go around any corner. They simulate tire properties with air, just its not adjustable. Its like caster, its simulated, but not adjustable.

That is why camber angle did not work half year,and now still have to be careful bacause you will lose grip.
Now tires behave as a solid piece of rubber.

 

[332i]

I do not judge physics engine by the FFB.
Current physics is easier to drive(less rear tires lock during braking,less wheel spin during corner exits,more sliding in low speed,more understeer in high speed,less suspension disturbing)

All of that could be in your tunes or driving, dude. IDK how you jump straight to other conclusions, like the physics engine lol wut? Make a new thread about it, because you'll be a pioneer over the matter for sure lol.

 

[super_gt]

All of that could be in your tunes or driving, dude.

I drive 1.02 in Friday,1.12 in Saturday with same car and the same setup and it is my fault.

 

[R3XNiSMO]

That is why camber angle did not work half year,and now still have to be careful bacause you will lose grip.
Now tires behave as a solid piece of rubber.

Camber worked from the start, the issue in my opinion was a lack of negative effects of bad camber settings. On the Negative Camber side it does the same as it always has, but now since 1.09 there is more grip loss from dynamic positive camber. The grip loss in my opinion is welcomed. Tire are no different from 1.00 to 1.12, they are the same and no they are not like a solid piece of rubber, PD factors in a spring effect into the tires different for each tire type(as should be) based on the tire structure, the contact patch changes due to tire flex effects are simulated, the only thing is we cant adjust the air pressure, so we cant tune the tire flex through air pressure.

 

[super_gt]

Camber worked from the start,.

The all suspention settings in GT dont work like real life.

 

[R3XNiSMO]

The all suspention settings in GT dont work like real life.

Roflmao

 

[Johnnypenso]

Camber worked from the start, the issue in my opinion was a lack of negative effects of bad camber settings. On the Negative Camber side it does the same as it always has, but now since 1.09 there is more grip loss from dynamic positive camber. The grip loss in my opinion is welcomed. Tire are no different from 1.00 to 1.12, they are the same and no they are not like a solid piece of rubber, PD factors in a spring effect into the tires different for each tire type(as should be) based on the tire structure, the contact patch changes due to tire flex effects are simulated, the only thing is we cant adjust the air pressure, so we cant tune the tire flex through air pressure.

Camber worked from the start? Most people on GTP would disagree with that as would pretty much all the test results.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

IMO GT6 is simulation. Is it a perfect sim? No. But I think it's a good attempt.

Yea, that's exactly now I see it as well. You can learn a lot about driving by playing GT but there is still much to be learned beyond what GT can teach.

 

[R3XNiSMO]

Camber worked from the start? Most people on GTP would disagree with that as would pretty much all the test results.

In my opinion all that testing has only proved Camber doesn't work as it did in GT5, where it was far from realistic, in GT5 it didn't matter much of how anything was set up, camber basically continuously added grip up to a fall off point on any set up, there was little to no dynamic positive camber grip loss, on top of it.. GT6 it's much more working in conjunction with the rest of the set up as it should be. Up to 1.09 testing was further impeded by a lack of grip loss with dynamic positive camber. However, those that used Camber in their tunes before 1.09 have not had to completely redo their set ups post 1.09 as the gains are the same, however many many many who used to tune for 0/0 have had to retune quite a bit, many of them now using camber as the dynamic positive camber grip loss has been increased causing their pre 1.09 tunes to suffer.

GT6 is much more complex than GT5 Cornering force dynamics are greatly improved, camber thrust and slip angles are what generate cornering force, cornering force is what allows the car to make a corner without spinning like a top. Slip angles and camber thrust require tire deformation, so its not even a question of whether or not tire deformation is simulated, it absolutely must be simulated (at least the effects of tire deformation, as there appears to be no visual simulation), or no cars in the game would be able to make it around any corner.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In my opinion all that testing has only proved Camber doesn't work as it did in GT5, where it was far from realistic, in GT5 it didn't matter much of how anything was set up, camber basically continuously added grip up to a fall off point on any set up, there was little to no dynamic positive camber grip loss, on top of it.. GT6 it's much more working in conjunction with the rest of the set up as it should be. Up to 1.09 testing was further impeded by a lack of grip loss with dynamic positive camber. However, those that used Camber in their tunes before 1.09 have not had to completely redo their set ups post 1.09 as the gains are the same, however many many many who used to tune for 0/0 have had to retune quite a bit, many of them now using camber as the dynamic positive camber grip loss has been increased causing their pre 1.09 tunes to suffer.

GT6 is much more complex than GT5 Cornering force dynamics are greatly improved, camber thrust and slip angles are what generate cornering force, cornering force is what allows the car to make a corner without spinning like a top. Slip angles and camber thrust require tire deformation, so its not even a question of whether or not tire deformation is simulated, it absolutely must be simulated (at least the effects of tire deformation, as there appears to be no visual simulation), or no cars in the game would be able to make it around any corner.

I followed the great camber debate for quite a while and to my knowledge not a single person stepped forward with a cambered tune that was any faster than 0/0. So of course when they patch camber, you have to retune because your 0/0 tune is no longer the fastest setup because camber adds grip.