Gran Turismo Physics(Poll)

[super_gt]

To be fair, it looks like it has CS tires up front and CH tires in the back. It should oversteer in any situation in almost any setup arrangement.

Front comfort soft and rear comfort medium tires,you can see that in the end of the video.

 

[Zelalem]

If Nissan are willing to let the winners of GT Academy drive their race cars in competitive and serious races, then I think GT has physics that can be labeled as simulation. Sure they're not perfect, but they're pretty damn good

GT Academy winners train with real cars before driving in real races.

 

[Stephanos82]

If Nissan are willing to let the winners of GT Academy drive their race cars in competitive and serious races, then I think GT has physics that can be labeled as simulation. Sure they're not perfect, but they're pretty damn good

GT Academy winners train with RFactor..

http://m.caradisiac.com/GT-Academy-...er-candidat-Francais-dans-la-course-89173.htm

 

[sik180sx]

GT Academy winners train with RFactor..

http://m.caradisiac.com/GT-Academy-...er-candidat-Francais-dans-la-course-89173.htm

Where is the bit that says they train with R factor?sorry i don't read french.

 

[super_gt]

Where is the bit that says they train with R factor?sorry i don't read french.

rFactor Pro

 

[occasionalracer]

Well, I firmly believe our wonderful driving simulator will reach that level on PS4.

 

[Stephanos82]

Well, I firmly believe our wonderful driving simulator will reach that level on PS4.

I don't wanna burst your bubble or anything but you do realise that's one gigantic leap you are talking about. I mean, we don't even have tyre pressure for crying out loud..

 

[Stotty]

In real life with aggressive setup cars are faster,in GT is exactly the opposite,cars are faster when have big understeer.

And also there is no way with suspension or LSD settings to delete the understeer in mid corner in GT.

Hmmmm, this not my experience.

Lap times massively improve when you tune a car to make it rotate (oversteer). Tunes from the very fastest TT drivers I've tested tend to rotate VERY aggressively!

And there are ways to reduce mid corner understeer, the easiest of which is to run a high front/low rear ride height.... not very realistic, but effective.

 

[Cote Dazur]

GT physics is simcade

 

[super_gt]

Tunes from the very fastest TT drivers I've tested tend to rotate VERY aggressively!

I see a lot of understeer and little oversteer when he brakes deep in corner,and at the end when he step in to the grass the car did not move at all.

And there are ways to reduce mid corner understeer, the easiest of which is to run a high front/low rear ride height.... not very realistic, but effective.

A little more rotation in low speed,but more understeer in high speed.

 

[Stotty]

Firstly, not sure how much you can interpret too from a replay video, especially when you can't see the throttle/gas inputs and Immortal is driving... it's how the car feels to drive from behind the wheel.

However, watching the video above I don't see Immortal piling the lock on to get round the corners - even with an aggressive set up you still need to turn the wheel to go round a corner. And you can clearly see he gets the car nicely sideways on the brakes in to the hairpin. When he runs on to the grass at the end he has the wheel pretty much straight - which GT physics allows. If he had lock applied or high lateral load, the car would spin - go try the current LFA seasonal and you'll quickly see that one wheel on the grass (or kerbs) on the exit of the faster corners results in a massive spin.

There are exceptions, but in real life, almost all cars will understeer to some extent when you pick up the throttle mid corner (assuming you don't break traction of the rear tyres).

High front/low rear creates rotation at any speed.... along with low LSD decel and no rear toe, it's the easiest way to reduce understeer in GT6.

Edit;
If you thing GT6 only understeers I can't imagine how you felt about GT5... which was 100% understeer city, whatever you did with the tune!

 

[super_gt]

Firstly, not sure how much you can interpret too from a replay video, especially when you can't see the throttle/gas inputs and Immortal is driving...

I can,trust my.

If you thing GT6 only understeers I can't imagine how you felt about GT5... which was 100% understeer city, whatever you did with the tune!

When I bought PS3 only for GT5 after the first few laps I wanted to smash my PS3 into the ground.
This is why I came into the GTPlanet

 

[Stotty]

I can,trust my.:

How, eaxctly?

Edit;

Sorry, I wanted to post this originally but had to go to a meeting.

Immortal is driving a Super GT car. Here's some footage of Lotterer in this years round at Fuji. I don't see any wild oversteer, or him backing it in to the slower corners... just smoothly turning the wheel. Immortals lap has more oversteer.



Most race cars aren't all set up to rotate super quickly - if they did they would just burn their tyres up. Most will be set up to be neutral.

And in GT6, you can set up pretty much any car to handle exactly how you want it to (except for FF's, which are almost all rubbish) - want your FR to handle like a MR? Simple, raise the front ride height, remove all the LSD decel, remove all the rear toe, set rear ARB full stiff. If that doesn't work start adding -ve rear toe and rear ballast.

If anything, there's too much range of adjustment and cars would be un-drivable in real life with some of the things you can do (eg; a car with -1.00 rear toe would kill you the instant you turned the wheel at speed, but I've driven cars with that much toe, and regularly drift with them like that )

With a few exceptions, if you're suffering with understeer in GT6, and the car is tunable you are either 1) not very good at tuning, or 2) pushing the front too much.

 

[super_gt]

How, eaxctly?

By steering wheel movement and engine/tires sound.

Immortal is driving a Super GT car. Here's some footage of Lotterer in this years round at Fuji. I don't see any wild oversteer, or him backing it in to the slower corners... just smoothly turning the wheel. Immortals lap has more oversteer.

Lotterer video is from 2007year.

If anything, there's too much range of adjustment and cars would be un-drivable in real life with some of the things you can do (eg; a car with -1.00 rear toe would kill you the instant you turned the wheel at speed, but I've driven cars with that much toe, and regularly drift with them like that )

When I set rear toe -1.00 and turn the wheel at speed and I virtually die in GT I will be extremely happy 👍

 

[Stotty]

By steering wheel movement and engine/tires sound.

Thanks for the detailed reply

Lotterer video is from 2007year.

OK youtube search gave me the wrong video, but I'm not sure what difference the year makes to the point I was making... Super GT cars don't oversteer wildly.

As I said, IMO, GT6 doesn't generally suffer from understeer any more than real cars generally understeer, and those cars that do in the game can be 'fixed' through tuning.

 

[super_gt]

As I said, IMO, GT6 doesn't generally suffer from understeer any more than real cars generally understeer

I can not agree with that.

and those cars that do in the game can be 'fixed' through tuning.

Stotty why in Sierra Time Rally Ferrari GTO has front sports medium and rear sports soft tires?
If tuning in GT6 is so realistic why they did not make this car to understeer with tuning?
Because the most realistic and effective way to change car balance in GT is to add more grip in front or in the back,and it is much more realistic and effective than suspension,LSD,ballast combined and PD knows that.

 

[Stotty]

Stotty why in Sierra Time Rally Ferrari GTO has front sports medium and rear sports soft tires?
If tuning in GT6 is so realistic why they did not make this car to understeer with tuning?
Because the most realistic and effective way to change car balance in GT is to add more grip in front or in the back,and it is much more realistic and effective than suspension,LSD,ballast combined and PD knows that.

Hmmmm... I'm the one that said that I thought GT6 tuning wasn't realistic as far as what you could make a car do.

You'd need to ask PD for an exact answer. However, I suspect the following...

GT6 has a broad user base, and the vast majority of players will be casuals using DS3s. For these people, cars with aggressive entry rotation/high amounts of exit oversteer (powerful MR cars, for example) will be difficult to control... you only need to look at the reaction of a large proportion of this community to how a lot of these cars handled early in the game to see. But these players will want to drive these cars as a lot of them are the halo cars in the game.

PD don't have time/resource to tune every car individually, so they simply stick a set of standard settings on cars that enables the vast majority to at least complete laps... so stock, we see very high levels of +ve rear toe and camber on cars as these make a car more stable on entry and more progressive at the grip limit.

With regard to the 288GTO at Sierra, I have no idea... the car is IMO, crippled by its stock suspension settings, SRF and tyres with too much grip for the cars power level. Again, I would expect that PD wanted to allow casual players access to a fast car, but wanted that car to be very stable to avoid whinging/frustration.

Overall, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make...

Can you change the balance of a car using better quality tyres on one axle? Of course you can... and you could get the same effect in real life too. But you can get the same effect through tuning.

Just because PD choose to short cut is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

 

[super_gt]

 

[Motor City Hami]

In our current Federation of International Tuners and Testers competition, https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fitt-ford-challenges-by-mch.317294/ , 9 of 16 tuners believe that zero camber has the most grip or is the quickest, however you want to say it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/138anhbLAEjTe4IaFDNzGVUfkEBJqAKvFQbJrcdSPyuw/edit?usp=sharing
Of the other 7 tuners, only three were willing to venture over 1.0 degrees of camber.

Based on these stats, I cannot say that camber is programmed anywhere close to real world. Also, when I go to grid in my real life Spec Miata, I can clearly see that none of my competitors are running zero camber on either end of the car. Gran Turismo is sold as "The Real Driving Simulator" not "The Real Tuning Simulator."

 

[Rotorist]

Today I tried a gravel race in IA and was impressed by the car behaviour and FFB. Yesterday I raced the expert seasonal in wet Spa and admired the physics and the new feedback which helps a lot in catching tail sliding even in high speeds. I think there are more to come for GT6 but in its now state, GT physics are too good imo. And good enough to be called sim level physics.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

It's good enough for making replicas and let's not forget, the tires are deceptive, comfort and sports tire have more grip than they should be. SS = hard racing slick or super soft semi slick ( shaved - often lasts a few hot laps ) in terms of grip and lap time potential.

 

[super_gt]

All who think that GT6 is simulation should try to replicate this with Toyota GT86.
Tune it as you want but without ballast,dont brake in mid corner and dont do scandinavian flick.

 

[Com Fox]

I accidentally clicked on simcade.

It did feel simcade before but with the new updates, it is becoming more of a sim which is what this series is, so it is good 👍.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Today I tried a gravel race in IA and was impressed by the car behaviour and FFB. Yesterday I raced the expert seasonal in wet Spa and admired the physics and the new feedback which helps a lot in catching tail sliding even in high speeds. I think there are more to come for GT6 but in its now state, GT physics are too good imo. And good enough to be called sim level physics.

GT is very good at some things, but the simplistic tire model disqualifies it from the sim discussion. I'm hoping GT7 brings dramatic progress to the tire modelling.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

All who think that GT6 is simulation should try to replicate this with Toyota GT86.
Tune it as you want but without ballast,dont brake in mid corner and dont do scandinavian flick.

I built the replica of the car in the video long ago, and I recently update the car with corrections on alignment and added suspension setup + transmission/LSD. If you want closer to being realistic experience, drive replicas or at least setup that mimics as close as possible real world setup ( from distribution of weight, springs, alignment, tire grip and LSD setup ) GT6 has way too much grip on the tires, the TMG CS V3 Cup GT86 uses SS for replicating Pirelli DH Slick uses IRL, even with SS, I think the lateral grip is a bit too high, I would want something between SM and SS tire

Try the car on SM or SS tire if you wish.

TOYOTA MOTORSPORTS GmbH ( TMG ) 86 GT CS V3 Race Car ( GT86 CUP )

Tuned to replicate GT86 TMG CS V3 Cup Car
Sports Medium to Racing Hard​

View attachment 111099​

CAR : Toyota 86 'Racing' '13
Tire : Sports Medium to Racing Hard ( Pirelli DH Slick 245/620 17 )

Specs
Horsepower: 254 HP at 7700 RPM
Torque : 176.6 ft-lb at 7200 RPM
Power Limiter at : 100%
Weight: 1207 kg ( running weight )
Ballast : 64 kg
Ballast Position : -24
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 441

GT AUTO
Oil change ( Applied ) - OPTIONAL
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED ) -MANDATORY - the real car has welded roll cage from factory.
Wheels : Standard Size- OZ RACING Ultraleggera in grey or silver
Car Paint : White

Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports Computer ( TMG ECU Update )
Racing Exhaust ( HJS Motorsports Type )
Catalytic Converter Sports
Fully Customizable Suspension
Racing Brakes Kit ( Project Mu Racing999 + Braided Lines )
Weight Reduction Stage 1


Suspension - OHLINS TTX36 2 Way Racing Coilover with Helper Springs
( Total Spring Rate DO NOT include Helper Springs Rate )
Personal Setup

Front, Rear

Ride Height: 122 135
Spring Rate: 13.00 16.00
Dampers (Compression): 6 5
Dampers (Extension): 6 5
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 2
Camber Angle: 3.4 1.4 ( TMG base setup max range - front 0 - 3.4 +- 0.75, rear 1.2 +- 0.75 - rear non adjustable )
Toe Angle: -0.26 0.40 ( TMG base front toe out 2mm, rear toe in 3mm )


Suspension - OHLINS TTX36 2 Way Racing Coilover with Helper Springs
( Total Spring Rate includes Helper Springs Rate )
Alternative Setup
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 122 135
Spring Rate: 15.68 18.68
Dampers (Compression): 6 5
Dampers (Extension): 6 5
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 2
Camber Angle: 3.4 1.4 ( TMG base setup max range - front 3.4 +- 0.75, rear 1.2 +- 0.75 - rear non adjustable )
Toe Angle: -0.26 0.40 ( TMG base front toe out 2mm, rear toe in 3mm )

View attachment 111105​

DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - FD20A 6 Speed Manual with 3.727 Final / Open Diff
Factory TMG Delivered
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Final 4.100
Set Auto Max Speed at 280kmh / 174mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.626
2nd 2.188
3rd 1.541
4th 1.213
5th 1.000
6th 0.767
Set Final 3.727 ( TMG Factory delivered 6 Speed with open diff and 3.727 Final )


LSD - FD20A Open Differential ( Only for 3.727 )
Initial Torque : 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 5
Braking Sensitivity: 5

TMG OPTIONAL 6 Speed FD20AT DYXAJ010005-00-A01
Use stock GT86 Transmission with 4.100 Final and Stock LSD ( Torsen )

Initial Torque : 50
Acceleration Sensitivity: 80
Braking Sensitivity: --


Brake Balance:
3/4 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 3/4, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I would recommend to run just one click higher on rear brake.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 4/5 brake balance as starting point.



Notes :
This is one of my hardest to make replica, I had to researched everywhere, magazines, forums, and technical docs. The real CS V3 has 200PS base engine in tech specs, but for racing use, it has FIA approved racing exhaust + catalyst and TMG Updated ECU. I decided to use whatever power in GT6 has with racing exhaust + ECU + Catalytic converter. The tire is Pirelli DH slick, but in GT6, racing hard has too much grip, more like DM/DS slick, so I opted for sports medium ( similar to R comp semi slick ) or sports soft ( similar to DH slick IMO ) with optional to use racing hard.

Suspension of the real car is Ohlins TTX36 2 way Racing coilover with main + helper springs. To adapt these springs, I combined both to one spring rate The real car uses 2 rear differential option, one stock open diff with 3.727 and torsen LSD with 4.100 ( GT6 stock LSD + gearbox came with this ), I have included both, use the 3.727 transmission setup with open diff LSD setup.
Everything else are as close as possible to real car. Enjoy the drive This car will be great for spec endurance racing.

The car in action IRL :




UPDATE : Major update to the suspension, ARB has been tweaked, camber and toe alignment has been corrected, added optional spring rate setup ( there are differing opinion on helper springs being calculated into main spring rate - both are listed, one do not and another include helper spring rate in total value ), added both rear diff offered by TMG, FD20A ( open diff with 3.727 gear ) and FD20AT ( Torsen diff with 4.100 gear - came with stock GT86 in GT6 )

One game is simulator when the developer tries to replicate as close as possible real world physics on the hardware which he has,and no matter how old is the game remains simulation.I would never call rFactor1 simcade.
That is not the case with GT.

You can still do as much as you can with what's given, I built replicas as my main activity in GT6, and it hasn't let me down. People play GT6 expecting realistic experience, yet they mostly tune the car with "unrealistic" setup ( aims at ultimate lap time/ease of driving/max rotation ), moving weight distribution to unrealistic figure, using ride height as easy fix, tuning suspension camber and toe that won't be used IRL, very low LSD value that acts more like open diff, all in pursuit of perfect handling and best lap time. IRL, there's no such thing as perfect setup that drive like top tuned car by famous tuners in GT6, cars are limited by their design, grip level/handling from chassis etc. I have replicas of Ferrari cars, all on comfort tires, some of the older ones are even on comfort hard/medium, they are all setup with real life setup ( alignment, weight + distribution, LSD, gearing ,etc ). Those who get used to racing tires and tune built by most tuners here will find the my replicas are hard to drive, but most can replicate/beat real life lap times on those low grip tires ( I drive with realistic pace - usually with real life onboard lap as reference, not alien or time trial style )

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Well let's be honest here.
The poll is purely subjective.

Someone will have one idea, while another will laugh at that thought.
And the same goes for the 'best' console 'sim' available, no matter whose opinion.
Someone will always have a giggle at the thought.

For a last gen console worth next to nothing, and a game worth no more than a carton of beer, it does a reasonable job.
Endless reputable game website reviewers compare it to next gen games.
And even then there is no clear winner.
Surely that suggests something.

You have an obvious agenda with this thread.
And endlessly pushing your own agenda doesn't make for a fair poll.
And even still you lost the fight.

Your opinion are yours, and it's been recognised.
But it seems the majority form a different view.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Tire in GT6 is one of the weakest link, as complex the engine calculation parameter as it has now, a lot improvement can still be had. Tailoring each car with specific stock factory tire model is enormous task for over 1200 cars There are vintage cars with bias ply tires to recent supercars with run flats low profile tires. We are not even going to higher grade tire like semi slick / DOT tires and race / slick tires from different period of times ( 50's to now ). I have to do a lot of work just to find which comfort tire is closest to the real car stock tire So far, I've done quite some replica of a stock car with factory tire, and they are fortunately decent enough to drive and capable to be "close" to the real car performance. If I have to do this on all stock street car in GT6, it would take years

These are some cars that I built quite a while ago, they are replicas ( not 100% accurate = impossible ) It's what GT6 can do with some effort from a mediocre driver/tuner that never won any competition Please read the notes and watch the replays and video/reference data to give some idea of what these cars are all about.

This particular RX8 is one example, GT6 do not provide the stock car with proper spring rate value, the real life value can't be reached either, so I have to use aftermarket coilover as replacement. It resulted in quicker lap times which can be from many factors, but you will need to see the video of the real life run done by Gan-San and compare it to my run ( replay ), look at the speed around apex, braking points and straights. It's the closest I can get ( the replay was done on as close as possible to the real lap in terms of pace + driving line ) Not perfect, a better physics would be great

MAZDA RX-8 Type S '07 EIBACH / Best Motoring + 2004 & 2011

Tuned to replicate Mazda RX-8 Laguna Seca Time Attack Best Motoring
Motoharu Kurosawa "Gan-San" Lap Record​

View attachment 232039
​

CAR : Mazda RX-8 Type S '07
Tire : Comfort Medium

Specs - Curb Weight
Horsepower: 247 HP at 8500 RPM
Torque : 161.7 ft-lb at 6000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.4%
Weight: 1379 kg
Ballast : 69 kg
Ballast Position : -11
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50 as the real car spec when tested ( closer to 51/49 )
Performance Points: 424

Specs - Lowest Curb Weight JP Spec
Horsepower: 247 HP at 8500 RPM
Torque : 161.7 ft-lb at 6000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.4%
Weight: 1310 kg
Ballast : 0 kg
Ballast Position : 0
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 428

Specs -Optional- US 2004 Model Year Spec
Horsepower: 238 HP at 9100 RPM
Torque : 161.7 ft-lb at 6000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 96.1%
Weight: 1379 kg
Ballast : 69 kg
Ballast Position : -11
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 420

Specs -Optional- US 2011 Model Year ( Sport/GT/R3 )
Horsepower: 232 HP at 8000 RPM
Torque : 161.7 ft-lb at 6000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 93.7%
Weight: 1391 kg
Ballast : 81 kg
Ballast Position : -30
Weight Distribution : 52 / 48 as the real car spec based on US brochure.
Performance Points: 417



GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
Wheels : Stock
Car Paint : Sunlight Silver Metallic ( same as tested by Motoharu Kurosawa )

View attachment 232037​

Tuning Parts Installed :
Fully Customizable Suspension
Adjustable LSD
Carbon Drive Shaft ( the real car has one from factory )




Suspension - EIBACH PRO-Street-S Height Adjustable Coilover Kit 300/250 Spring Set with Bump Stop ( FRONT 1"-3" / 25mm-102mm & REAR 0"-2.5" / 0mm-64mm Drop Range)
Street/Track Sports Alignment Range
Stock Ride Height + Aggressive Track Alignment for Time Attack
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 140 140
Spring Rate: 5.36 4.47
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 3 7
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 2
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.5 ( Front camber : -0.45 +- 1.00, Rear Camber : -1.44+-1.00 )
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.16 ( Front Toe In : 0.11 +- 0.21, Rear Toe In : 0.16 +- 0.20 )


Suspension - EIBACH PRO-Street-S Height Adjustable Coilover Kit 300/250 Spring Set with Bump Stop ( FRONT 1"-3" / 25mm-102mm & REAR 0"-2.5" / 0mm-64mm Drop Range)
Street/Track Sports Alignment Range
Stock Ride Height + Street Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 140 140
Spring Rate: 5.36 4.47
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 3 7
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 2
Camber Angle: 0.5 1.5 ( Front camber : -0.45 +- 1.00, Rear Camber : -1.44+-1.00 )
Toe Angle: 0.11 0.16 ( Front Toe In : 0.11 +- 0.21, Rear Toe In : 0.16 +- 0.20 )


OPTIONAL Factory Street Alignment for Standard Suspension :
Front
Camber : -0.40 +- 1.0
Total Toe In : 0.11 +- 0.21

Rear
Camber : -0.56 +- 1.0
Total Toe In : 0.16 +- 0.20

View attachment 232038
​

DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - US Spec 2004 Model Year Type S 6 Speed Manual
OPTIONAL - Used on Pre Production RX8 at the Time Attack driven by Motoharu Kurosawa
Set Default
Set Final to 4.444
Set Auto Max Speed at 310kmh / 193mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.760
2nd 2.269
3rd 1.645
4th 1.187
5th 1.000
6th 0.843
Set Final :4.444


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - US Spec Type S 6 Speed Manual - OPTIONAL
2011 Model Year US Spec RX8 ( Sport / GT / R3 )
Set Default
Set Final to 4.444
Set Auto Max Speed at 310kmh / 193mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.815
2nd 2.269
3rd 1.536
4th 1.177
5th 1.000
6th 0.787
Set Final :4.777

LSD - Mazda Super LSD ( TORSEN Conical LSD )

Initial Torque : 22
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 15


Brake Balance:
5/6 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 5/6, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/6 brake balance as starting point.

Notes :

The Mazda RX8 is the successor to the famous RX7 line of FR sports car. With new RENESIS engine and NA only, the RX8 offers great balance chassis, good power delivery with styling that never gets old.

The RX8 in this replica is based on official power of 247HP SAE ( JP spec 250PS ) or 240 HP DIN / US and 1379kg curb weight without driver. Weight distribution at 50/50, closer to 51/49 based on corner weight, so I have put ballast position to reflect this. I have also added 2011 US Spec Power and weight + distribution - the last model year, the 6 speed ratio for the 2011 US model has also been included.

As the stock real car spring rate is way too low, it's not possible to replicate in GT6 Stock spring rate :

Front : 27N/mm or 154lbs/in
Rear : 19N/mm or 109lbs/in

I then decided to use EIBACH PRO Street S Height Adjustable Coilover Kit with Bump Stop. The Kit offers large range of height adjustments, the front can drop up to 3 inch/102mm and rear up to 2.5 inch/64mm. The spring rate are : front 52 N/mm or 300 lbs/in and rear 44 N/mm or 250lbs/in. The spring rate offers excellent balance for track and street, providing good response on low speed corners with the optimized medium damper and stiff ARB. The alignment used is based on MAZDASPEED Sports Suspension Package Alignment Range. I have setup aggressive camber at the front to allow better handling around Laguna Seca. An optional Street Aligment setup has also been provided, this offers better balance for cruising and high speed curve spirited driving.

Gearing is stock and the same as in real life ( JP spec ), while LSD has been tuned to reflect real life Mazda Super LSD installed on Type S 6 Speed Manual. The LSD provides good response and traction on comfort medium ( stock factory tire : Dunlop SP Sport 8090 91W Rated ). The 6 Speed Manual ratio differs on 3rd gear between JP and US 2004 Type S, the 3rd gear for JP is 1.539, while for US is 1.645. As this is JP spec replica as a base, I included the US spec 2004 + 2011 gearing as optional - the Time Attack run by Motoharu Kurosawa uses US Pre Production spec RX8 with JP spec engine + 2004 US spec gear ratio, shift up to 3rd from 2nd red line will bring engine at 7K RPM.

The RX8 was mainly tested and tuned at Tsukuba, Red Bull Ring, Streets of Willow and Laguna Seca. The main aim is to replicate Motoharu Kurosawa lap record during Best Motoring Time Attack at 1:50.70s. The Eibach Pro S RX8 is capable of 1:48s on CM tire ( 1st lap ) - using aggressive track alignment and curb weight spec + gear ratio/stock ratio I have included a replay of the run and a video of the real life lap - inboard cam with digital speedo shown. Watch the replay and compare the speeds around corners and straights

If you want closest to the Pre-Production RX8 used on the Best Motoring Time Attack in 2003, use the curb weight spec (247HP/1379kg/50:50) or the OPTIONAL 2004 Model Year US Spec ( 238HP/1379kg ) + 2004 US Gear Ratio.


Motoharu Kurosawa "Gan San" Best Motoring Laguna Seca Time Attack - Mazda RX8

View attachment 232040 ​

Motoharu Kurosawa "Gan San" Best Motoring Laguna Seca Time Attack - Mazda RX8



Also, another pair of car is Ford Focus ST 2013 & 2014 replica, with Randy Pobst review and lap record at Laguna Seca for MotorTrend Best Driver's Car and Streets of Willow Springs for MotorTrend Head 2 Head Focus ST 2014 vs WRS Sedan 2015 Feature. Both use CM tire.

FORD Focus ST 2013 Replica

Tuned to replicate Focus ST 2013

Comfort Medium​

View attachment 228861
​

CAR : Ford Focus ST '13
Tire : Comfort Medium

Specs
Horsepower: 252 HP at 5300 RPM
Torque : 267.8 ft-lb at 2500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 92.5%
Weight: 1462 kg
Ballast : 191 kg
Ballast Position : -50
Weight Distribution : 60 / 40 as the real car spec when tested.
Performance Points: 431


GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
Wheels : Stock
Car Paint : White or Orange or Blue

View attachment 228863​

Tuning Parts Installed :
Intake Tuning
Fully Customizable Suspension
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Weight Reduction Stage 2


Suspension - Ford Factory ST Tuned Springs Ratio + Damper with
ST Tuned Street/Track Alignment Range
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 120 120
Spring Rate: 4.77 5.11
Dampers (Compression): 5 4
Dampers (Extension): 6 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 1.3 2.0 ( Front camber : -1.30 +- 0.30, Rear Camber : -2.00+-0.00 )
Toe Angle: 0.10 0.16 ( Front Toe In : 0.10 +- 0.15, Rear Toe In : 0.16 +- 0.56 )

OPTIONAL Factory Street Alignment :
Front
Camber ( Driver Side ) : -0.83 +- 0.75
Camber ( Passenger Side ) : -0.93 +- 0.75
Total Toe In : 0.20 +- 0.20

Rear
Camber : -1.35 +- 0.75
Total Toe In : 0.38 +- 0.20


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Corrected Stock GETRAG MMT6 Dual Output Shaft Ratio with 4.063 Final
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed at 280kmh / 174mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.231
2nd 1.952
3rd 1.321
4th 1.029
5th 0.821 - Actual Ratio : 1.129 with 2nd final drive 2.955
6th 0.685 - Actual Ratio : 0.943 with 2nd final drive 2.955
Set Final :4.063

View attachment 228862
​

LSD - Traction Control Based Front Brake and Torque Vectoring Electronic LSD

Initial Torque : 15
Acceleration Sensitivity: 23
Braking Sensitivity: 5

OPTIONAL 2014 LSD ( Low Lock / Recommended ) :
Initial Torque : 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 15
Braking Sensitivity: 5


Brake Balance:
7/10 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 5/8, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 7/10 brake balance as starting point.

Notes :

The Ford Focus ST 2013 is one of the car in GT6 that is a stat disaster , wrong weight distribution, torque figure, spring rate too high and broken gearing.

For this replica, I made a corrected version, not really perfect, but as close as possible replicating the real car.

The Ford Focus ST 2013 has 270lb-ft torque, while in GT6 stock value is too low, I have installed intake tuning to get closer at 267.8ft-lb. Power limiter used to get 252HP stock value. Now, onto the weight distribution, the real car has 60/40 distribution, GT6 once again wrong, so I installed weight reduction stage 2 and put some ballast at -50 to get the proper distribution. Curb weight officially at 3223lbs / 1462kg.

For suspension, the stock spring rate is too high in GT6, and the real life stock value can't be reached ( not low enough on GT6 ). I chose to use the spring ratio instead and set the lowest possible spring rate on GT6.
The real car has 30N/mm or 171lb/in spring rate at the front and 32N/mm or 183lb/in spring rate at the rear, based on Ford Official documentation, but when tested by well respected suspension company, the actual rates are =

Front : 29N/mm or 166lb/in
Rear : 31N/mm or 177lb/in

Slightly lower than official stats.

For GT6, I used 4.77kg/mm or 267lb/in spring rate at the front and 5.11kg/mm or 286lb/in spring rate at the rear. This retains stock spring rate ratio, and I have tuned the damper and ARB to maintain balance similar to real life review, nimble with surgical precision while still can bite back on the limit.

I have also used Ford factory alignment ( camber and toe ), the alignment value used is recommended value by ST experts, while for daily driving factory alignment range are as below ( OPTIONAL ) :

Front
Camber ( Driver Side ) : -0.83 +- 0.75
Camber ( Passenger Side ) : -0.93 +- 0.75
Total Toe In : 0.20 +- 0.20

Rear
Camber : -1.35 +- 0.75
Total Toe In : 0.38 +- 0.20

The overall range of values are similar, but the one used on this replica offers better performance at the track.

Gearbox is another one that needs fixing, the real car uses Getrag MMT6 with dual output shaft which result in 2 different final drive, 4.063 final drive for the 1st to 4th gear, while 5th and 6th uses 2.955.
GT6 incorrectly set the 5th and 6th, which result on overly long gearing and useless. I have set the 5th and 6th with calculated effective ratio when 4.063 is used instead, this will replicate real life vehicle speed at max engine speed on all gears from 1st to 6th.

For LSD, I have setup in conjunction with brake balance to achieve similar effect to real life electronic based LSD and torque vectoring as well as cornering understeer control. I have use low preload and medium lock rate to give some locking action which reduce inside wheel spin and give some stability on mid corner, while the rear bias brake balance will help to give illusion of brake based system at the rear axle.

The real Focus ST uses several electronic system in synergy to maintain handling balance under heavy cornering, there's no mechanical parts that acts like limited slip differential. First is the brake based LSD, which relies on traction control system to maintain traction by applying brake pressure on each front wheel to reduce understeer. The Enhanced Torque Vectoring Control and Cornering Understeer Control work hand in hand on both front and rear axle to maintain balance, encourage oversteer, apply inside and outside brake pressure according situation. With trail braking, the Focus ST can be easily shifted to oversteer on entry, up to certain degree. When the car is really pushed hard at track pace, the brake based system is proven not really reliable, often resulting in overheated brake after several hot laps. When this happens, heavy understeer will slowly creep in which will show the Focus ST true colors.

Here is a quote from Randy Pobst on his experience at hot lapping the Focus ST at Laguna Seca MotorTrend Best Driver's Car 2013 :



Several tests review also shown that after several laps, the Focus ST tend to lose it's charm and starts to understeer as the braking performance reduced due to heat build up in the system.

I mainly tested the car at Tsukuba, Big Willow and Laguna Seca. At Laguna Seca, it can easily lap in 1:48s on comfort medium. The Best Driver's Car lap record is 1:49.30, driven by Pro Driver Randy Pobst ( MotorTrend )



Below I also provided a picture with detailed gearing and speed stat for the Getrag MMT6 on the Focus ST 2013, and a replay of the run at Laguna Seca for comparison to Randy Pobst lap

Watch it, to find out the similarity and difference in cornering as well as speed at braking points. Drive the Focus ST replica at Big Willow and Laguna Seca and hopefully you'll find pleasure like I do.



View attachment 228860


UPDATE : Added optional LSD with low lock to better reflect non mechanical LSD of the real car.

The Best Driver's Car lap record is 1:49.30, driven by Pro Driver Randy Pobst ( MotorTrend )



Watch both replay and the video of the run to see how close they are.

FORD Focus ST 2014 Replica

Tuned to replicate Focus ST 2014
Streets of Willow
April 2014 MotorTrend Head 2 Head Test​

View attachment 231645
​

CAR : Ford Focus ST '13
Tire : Comfort Medium

Specs
Horsepower: 252 HP at 5300 RPM
Torque : 267.8 ft-lb at 2500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 92.5%
Weight: 1462 kg
Ballast : 191 kg
Ballast Position : -50
Weight Distribution : 60 / 40 as the real car spec when tested.
Performance Points: 431


GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
Wheels : Stock
Car Paint : Red

View attachment 231641​

Tuning Parts Installed :
Intake Tuning
Fully Customizable Suspension
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Weight Reduction Stage 2


Suspension - Ford Factory ST Tuned Springs Ratio + Damper with
2014 ST Tuned Street/Track Alignment Range
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 120 120
Spring Rate: 4.77 5.11
Dampers (Compression): 5 4
Dampers (Extension): 6 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 1.6 2.0 ( Front camber : -1.30 +- 0.30, Rear Camber : -2.00+-0.00 )
Toe Angle: 0.05 0.20 ( Front Toe In : 0.10 +- 0.15, Rear Toe In : 0.16 +- 0.56 )

OPTIONAL Factory 2014 Model Year Street Alignment :
Front
Camber ( Driver Side ) : -0.90 +- 0.80
Total Toe In : 0.10 +- 0.20

Rear
Camber : -1.35 +- 0.75
Total Toe In : 0.38 +- 0.20


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Corrected Stock GETRAG MMT6 Dual Output Shaft Ratio with 4.063 Final
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed at 280kmh / 174mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.231
2nd 1.952
3rd 1.321
4th 1.029
5th 0.821 - Actual Ratio : 1.129 with 2nd final drive 2.955
6th 0.685 - Actual Ratio : 0.943 with 2nd final drive 2.955
Set Final :4.063

View attachment 231639
​

LSD - Traction Control Based Front Brake and Torque Vectoring Electronic LSD

Initial Torque : 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 15
Braking Sensitivity: 5

OPTIONAL 2013 Model Year Replica LSD :
Initial Torque : 15
Acceleration Sensitivity: 23
Braking Sensitivity: 5


Brake Balance:
7/10 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 5/8, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 7/10 brake balance as starting point.

Notes :

The Ford Focus ST 2014 is built based on the 2013 replica, as the 2014 model year only has some interior changes and slightly different factory base alignment.

For this replica, I made a corrected version for 2014 aiming at replicating Streets of Willow lap record during April 2014 MotorTrend Head 2 Head Test against Subaru WRX 2015 Sedan, not really perfect, but as close as possible replicating the real car. The Focus 2014 loses to the WRX 2015 Sedan, the Focus was over 2 seconds slower at 1:29.68, while the WRX posted 1:27.32.

The Ford Focus ST 2014 has 270lb-ft torque, while in GT6 stock value is too low, I have installed intake tuning to get closer at 267.8ft-lb. Power limiter used to get 252HP stock value. Now, onto the weight distribution, the real car has 60/40 distribution, GT6 once again wrong, so I installed weight reduction stage 2 and put some ballast at -50 to get the proper distribution. Curb weight officially at 3223lbs / 1462kg.

For suspension, the stock spring rate is too high in GT6, and the real life stock value can't be reached ( not low enough on GT6 ). I chose to use the spring ratio instead and set the lowest possible spring rate on GT6.
The real car has 30N/mm or 171lb/in spring rate at the front and 32N/mm or 183lb/in spring rate at the rear, based on Ford Official documentation, but when tested by well respected suspension company, the actual rates are =

Front : 29N/mm or 166lb/in
Rear : 31N/mm or 177lb/in

Slightly lower than official stats.

For GT6, I used 4.77kg/mm or 267lb/in spring rate at the front and 5.11kg/mm or 286lb/in spring rate at the rear. This retains stock spring rate ratio, and I have tuned the damper and ARB to maintain balance similar to real life review, nimble with surgical precision while still can bite back on the limit.

I have also used Ford factory alignment ( camber and toe ), the alignment value used is recommended value by ST experts, while for daily driving factory alignment range are as below ( OPTIONAL ) :

Front
Camber : -0.90 +- 0.80
Total Toe In : 0.10 +- 0.20

Rear
Camber : -1.35 +- 0.75
Total Toe In : 0.38 +- 0.20

The overall range of values are similar, but the one used on this replica offers better performance at the track.

Gearbox is another one that needs fixing, the real car uses Getrag MMT6 with dual output shaft which result in 2 different final drive, 4.063 final drive for the 1st to 4th gear, while 5th and 6th uses 2.955.
GT6 incorrectly set the 5th and 6th, which result on overly long gearing and useless. I have set the 5th and 6th with calculated effective ratio when 4.063 is used instead, this will replicate real life vehicle speed at max engine speed on all gears from 1st to 6th.

For LSD, I have setup in conjunction with brake balance to achieve similar effect to real life electronic based LSD and torque vectoring as well as cornering understeer control. I have used lowest possible preload and low lock rate to give some locking action which reduce inside wheel spin and give some stability on mid corner, while the rear bias brake balance will help to give illusion of brake based system at the rear axle.

The real Focus ST uses several electronic system in synergy to maintain handling balance under heavy cornering, there's no mechanical parts that acts like limited slip differential. First is the brake based LSD, which relies on traction control system to maintain traction by applying brake pressure on each front wheel to reduce understeer. The Enhanced Torque Vectoring Control and Cornering Understeer Control work hand in hand on both front and rear axle to maintain balance, encourage oversteer, apply inside and outside brake pressure according situation. With trail braking, the Focus ST can be easily shifted to oversteer on entry, up to certain degree. When the car is really pushed hard at track pace, the brake based system is proven not really reliable, often resulting in overheated brake after several hot laps. When this happens, heavy understeer will slowly creep in which will show the Focus ST true colors.

Here is a quote from Randy Pobst on his experience at hot lapping the Focus ST at Laguna Seca MotorTrend Best Driver's Car 2013 :




And his impression on April 2014 MotorTrend Head 2 Head Test at Streets of Willow Springs :



Several tests review also shown that after several laps, the Focus ST tend to lose it's charm and starts to understeer as the braking performance reduced due to heat build up in the system.

I mainly tested the car at Tsukuba, Big Willow, Streets of Willow, and Laguna Seca. At Streets of Wllow, it can easily lap in 1:28s on comfort medium. The April 2014 Head 2 Head MotorTrend Test lap record was 1:29.68, driven by Pro Driver Randy Pobst.



Below I also provided a picture with detailed gearing and speed stat for the Getrag MMT6 on the Focus ST 2014, and a replay of the run at Streets of Willow for reference using the 2013 replica LSD and alignment

View attachment 228860


Watch it, to find out the similarity and difference in cornering, lowest and highest speed around corners, if you want more in depth, access the Data Logger and make observation on the peak G's around corners. I included screenshots from the April 2014 MotorTrend Head 2 Head Test Result.

View attachment 231627 View attachment 231626 ​

Drive the Focus ST replica at Streets of Willow and hopefully you'll find pleasure like I do.

View attachment 231627 View attachment 231626

Compare the replay and the reference G's + speed from the MotorTrend Data It won't be 1 for 1 accurate, but it's the best GT6 can do.


I have 2 more cars with similar theme that will be posted soon, Corvette C5 Z06 and Camaro Z/28 2014

 

[super_gt]

PD should allow us to adjust the positive camber angle when one car is equipped with fully customizable suspension,because this is the most effective way to reduce the rear end grip and change the car balance in GT.
This can be done in GT6

 

[Stylel_Code]

Imo GT6 is very close to a simulation. I drove in iracing for 6 months, I have asseto corsa. And I must say from my experience, they are very similars experiences, though there are some differences, but really not big.
Both are simulations, the ones on PC are further because they worked hard on physics aspect more than the game aspect, in GT6 they worked hard on physics aspect, but not as much and focused more on game aspect.
There are some problems in GT6 that are true, like the weak aerodynamics, tire flex as repeatidly mentioned here, and other things. But if you drive around the nordschleife with GT6 with all aids off, and to the most realistic setup possible on GT6, the experience will be very close to real life, with almost nothing different.
Personally, I have never driven a racing car IRL, I have not the age, but watching professional videos, I can predict without error the movements of the car, understeer, oversteer.. Everything from my knowledge of GT6, and a Youtube video gives me the impression it's exactly like Gran Turismo 6. And this is just my personnal experience.
We can not deny for example, that in GT6 to make a car faster, we have to use extreme settings, like very stable oversteer, but that's not completely wrong, it's just that IRL it would destroy the tires and probably other problems, but if you test one of those extreme setups, you can tell why a setting has such a value, and maybe that it's smart to make it work that way. Irl setups are based on stability so no errors happen, in GT6 the numbers of offtracks is very big, while in IRL that's what they try to limit. Ir maybe I'm talking nonsense about RL as I have never driven A racing car IRL, so it's my fault if so and correct me

 

[MatskiMonk]

At the end of the day, it's all just maths - equations and variables.

If the answer is 4, what is the best simulation?

1) x * y, where x = 2, and y = 2, result = 4

or

2) (6a*(b^2 +c)/(d+a+(e^3)) + 1.3*b) - f , where a = 8, b = 4.5, c = 23, d = 124, e = 6, f = 7.7 .... result 4.116

The first one arrives at the correct answer, but only takes into account two variables. The second doesn't quite get it right, but takes into account many more variables.

If 4 was actually the cars 0-60 time, which one would you think was broken? Which one do you think would react better to tuning, or different tyres, or track temperature.

You don't get to see what equations these games are using, you can only judge the output. Personally I think PD goes down the route of the 2nd equation. They try and build all the results from complex equations, but end up missing the mark, and putting a lot of strain on the PS3 at the same time. I think that's the reason why PD get respect from people (such as manufacturers, and perhaps the FIA), for what they do, even though sometimes the out-put isn't right.