Grip bug thread

[7HO]

Let him have his moment in the sun. He's in for a rude awakening when PD patches this crap.

The funny thing about that statement is he apparently has provided information that might help PD fix this that wasn't known previously. And still people lynched him.

BTW to others here UGA95 is one of the people I have argued with about the physics of this game before and if he wants, he can confirm my earlier statements. We did not agree with our thoughts on the physics especially in regard to how much grip our games had and he thought I was an idiot. He thought the game had too much grip and was on rails, I said my games grip is very realistic. Like I said, in hindsight I think it is because our games are actually different.

The only problem with the handling in GT Sport are the bad LSD default setups. You just have to go from 40 to 20 on the acceleration setting and driving GT3 cars without TCS is no problem.

That doesn't help when sets are fixed.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Are you suffering from this "grip bug"?

Not that I'm aware of.

Are you?

 

[GTFraker]

Not that I'm aware of.

Are you?

Nah.

 

[kjeldsen]

You guys just lynched him but I don't think he is technically a cheater and might be somewhat in the right. What he is doing seems no different than any professional race team finding a loophole in the rules and exploiting it to their advantage to win. It isn't cheating if he has not broke any rules, it is the racers edge, someone who will find any legal advantage they can to win because racers want to win. Like I said earlier we don't know anything about this bug and the way @Tassie_tiger who clearly knows something we don't was replying made me rethink my position in this argument.

Lynched is wrong.

What I saw was a person that seemed to think he deserved the bug that made him the fastest. He reminded me of players using aimbots because <insert useless excuse here>.

And his million dollars comparison fits the profile perfectly.

 

[Shottah072]

The funny thing about that statement is he apparently has provided information that might help PD fix this that wasn't known previously. And still people lynched him.

BTW to others here UGA95 is one of the people I have argued with about the physics of this game before and if he wants, he can confirm my earlier statements. We did not agree with our thoughts on the physics especially in regard to how much grip our games had and he thought I was an idiot. He thought the game had too much grip and was on rails, I said my games grip is very realistic. Like I said, in hindsight I think it is because our games are actually different.


That doesn't help when sets are fixed.

Look we were not out to get him and responded very sensible to Devil at first, no called him a cheater for having the bug, we just stated that knowingly using the bug to benefit yourself is not a nice thing to do. He chose to took it offensive and got defensive and started insulting others. He got banned after only a couple posts in this thread, not because he didnt want to help us but because he cant behave himself. Thats all on him.

Can you post a video supporting your claim of having different braking points and grip everytime you log in. You keep bringin it up, and its not that i doubt you (4500 irating suggest you know your stuff), but in order to help we need actual footage of it.

 

[LBDN123]

You guys just lynched him but I don't think he is technically a cheater and might be somewhat in the right. What he is doing seems no different than any professional race team finding a loophole in the rules and exploiting it to their advantage to win. It isn't cheating if he has not broke any rules, it is the racers edge, someone who will find any legal advantage they can to win because racers want to win. Like I said earlier we don't know anything about this bug and the way @Tassie_tiger who clearly knows something we don't was replying made me rethink my position in this argument.

Arguably whilst it would be hard to obtain any satisfaction from victories knowing you have a distinct advantage, the simple fact remains he has paid his money for a game and ultimately if he wants to carry on regardless then it isn't really his problem.

The problem rests with PD.

Although his general attitude seems somewhat childish.

 

[UGA95]

The funny thing about that statement is he apparently has provided information that might help PD fix this that wasn't known previously. And still people lynched him.

His behavior in this thread has been anything but helpful. Quite the opposite actually. If you go back and read when he first posted you'll see no one attacked him. I'm not really saying he's a cheater because he had no control over it and he really doesn't have to help or even stop exploiting the bug. That's his choice. It's ultimately PD's responsibility to fix this issue, not his. I'm just not sure why even he came here in the first place because when he was asked politely at first for assistance in getting to the bottom of this he provided none and still hasn't, on here at least.

BTW to others here UGA95 is one of the people I have argued with about the physics of this game before and if he wants, he can confirm my earlier statements. We did not agree with our thoughts on the physics especially in regard to how much grip our games had and he thought I was an idiot. He thought the game had too much grip and was on rails, I said my games grip is very realistic. Like I said, in hindsight I think it is because our games are actually different.

IIRC, I said specifically that the supersofts had too much grip than what I thought a soft tire should, not really the entire game in general. I still stand by that, to an extent. I still find the hard compounds to be more realistic and a lot more fun and that's what I prefer to race on if I had my choice. I think the Supersofts, while fun just to see how quick of a lap you can rip off, are a krutch to some people. I see people all the time, hell even some people on my friends list, that primarily race in lobbies with no restrictions on tires and then go to lobby with RH restrictions and they slip and slide all over the place. Their throttle control, their driving line, braking points, etc are all out of whack because they're used to having a tire with maximum 100% grip all the time. They then get frustrated and leave after 1 or 2 races. But I digress on that, I really don't feel like getting into all that again.

And as far as what you're saying about the game acting different on multiple accounts I can't confirm or deny that because I haven't tried the game on an alternate account. I suppose it's possible, especially if a "grip bug" such as this thread is about is possible. Also I'm confused because at the time you said you thought the game was realistic but now you're saying it's not and is very inconsistent. Is this because you're on a different account? Or has your opinion in general of the game changed?

 

[RA1784]

finding a loophole in the rules and exploiting it to their advantage to win

The difference is that this loophole isnt available for all

 

[Shottah072]

The difference is that this loophole isnt available for all

Exactly, it is no loophole in the rules it is a PD physics lottery.

 

[RaceFace85]

That doesn't help when sets are fixed.

That is right. Better defaults would be useful.

 

[Famine]

I don't know what "calling out" anyone actually achieves.

Me neither. And it's really odd as when this first came to light in the Hacks thread, this happened:

Are we personally calling out others by name for cheating

No - and as at least one user today will attest, any posts that do that are removed.

But it seems that I was ignored, because we've had people posting names of people they think are cheating (and thus searchable and indexed by search engines) in this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And I'm not even halfway through the thread yet.

If anyone fancies searching for those usernames on Google, you'll see there's not many results before one in which they're called out in a GTPlanet forums thread for cheating. Anyone think that's acceptable?

And then here you've got a user posting up screengrabs of a one-to-one conversation with someone else! In what universe is that acceptable? That's a conversation (never mind the fact that it's in Portuguese) in which both users have a reasonable expectation of privacy, but one of them has just slung it up onto public forums!

Anyone think it's any wonder that when one of those people turns up here, they're very defensive and have an appalling attitude towards us?

Anyone still think naming these users is the right way to go about it?


It's undeniable that a lot of work has gone into this, but the posters in this thread have actually turned this into a witch hunt instead of a bughunt. Instead of enlisting the help of people who might be able to assist in getting to the bottom of it (and we'll cover that later*), they're just posting their names up for all to see as cheats who exploit a bug.

When they turn up (with an unsurprising chip on their shoulders) and don't give them what they want, we get four pages of GTSplaining why what they're doing is wrong and attempts to shame them into stopping.

Why aren't GTplanet putting this on the main news page to draw attention to it?
It's pretty big news imo.

It has potential to damage the brand, especially with FIA affiliation. I'd daresay PD would rather it be kept quiet until they fix it, and I don't blame them. If they stuff this up they might not be asked for FIA affiliation next time around.

I submitted the thread to EUROGAMER, maybe they will look into it. I find it strange that PD doesn't have anyone "patrolling" the many GT forums around the world. So much to learn from the gamers..

Please explain to me, gtplanet site owner must have a way to communicate to Pd.
What have they said about this?
I wonder why this matter hasn't deserved a post in gtplanet blog yet.

Did anyone think to tell us about it?

I've looked through the thread and I can't see a single post from anyone tagging any member of the writing team or staff. Perhaps someone sent a PM or Conversation message to contact someone on the staff or writing team who wasn't me, or used the Contact form, but the only notifications I've had for this thread are reports for someone's poor behaviour and several members (some of which should know better) double-posting.

If we don't know about it, we aren't going to write about it.


That aside, I've read the first post and I'm none the wiser.

This bug seems to be best expressed as an undefined issue with the game that, through unknown mechanisms, affects some accounts for unknown reasons and allows them to, somehow, brake later into corners and accelerate earlier out of corners to gain an advantage, with no known other advantage in corners or on straights. Oh, and we don't know how many people are affected, or who.

That's a lot of unknowns and not a lot of explanation of what the problem actually is. If we're to post this on the GTP blog, it needs explaining like we're five. Or like our readers are five - and judging by the usual Facebook comments on our articles, they are. Otherwise people are just going to read what they want, which will be "the fastest people in GTS are all cheating" and something tells me that those of you who are among the fastest people don't want people to have that impression.

And the evidence for this bug is the replays of some people who don't look very fast, but are posting fast times. Yes, I'll absolutely grant you that the braking distances on some of the videos purporting to show the bug are a great deal shorter than they probably ought to be, and I'll agree that there certainly seems to be something up, but there's no numbers here.

Here's the last time we found a bug and posted a news article about it:

https://www.gtplanet.net/complex-gt5-bug-causes-problems-for-online-racers/

You can clearly see that we had much of the community involved in testing this and we came out with actual numbers we could publish. And the issue was... sort of fixed. As was the pit glitch bug, which very clearly showed players gaining a full lap by a very definite mechanism (although it still works at the moment, despite a few attempts to remove it!).


So if we were aware of this thread, the bug was explained as if to an idiot and there were numbers we could use, we'd absolutely make a news article about it.


But then I'm lead right back to my first point again. These days, all GTP news articles link directly into forum discussion threads. The natural place to link a news article about this bug is this thread. But this thread is 17 pages of naming and shaming and I don't want to put this on display on the news page and social media as representative of our community, because it makes us look utterly dreadful.

 

[GT_Alex74]

@Tassie_tiger While I fully understand the concept of privacy, there's no reason you can't sum up what mysteries purely related to this bug Devil has found we may have missed. His unwillingness to help and share data, along with his overall attitude just really don't make me want to trust his words (or moreso lack of).

Also, I would like to know how you guys managed to contact PD directly, because we couldn't find a way to have a direct contact with them (despite some of us being GT Academy finalists and / or knowing personally GT Academy winners) and thus are relying on third parties right now.

@7HO If you really think there's something wrong with your account or PS4, then please share some replays, because what you describe just sounds like driver fluctuation to me (on about any racing game I may drive better or worse than last time when I get back on track).

@everyone, this is turning into paranoïa fest and this isn't good. Firstly, I suggest you guys take the time to read carefully the OP, as half the people coming here mentionned something that was confirmed or excluded from the get go. Secondly, I'd like you to try not to accuse everyone who brakes later than you of having the bug, unless you're a regular top 10 scorer or not far from it and you have edible evidences to share, or know the guy well from before GTS and noticed a sudden huge increase of performance on GTS.

 

[7HO]

Lynched is wrong.

What I saw was a person that seemed to think he deserved the bug that made him the fastest. He reminded me of players using aimbots because <insert useless excuse here>.

And his million dollars comparison fits the profile perfectly.

I was under the impression he isn't a native English speaker and his analogy wasn't a very good one unfortunately. I think a more fitting example would be if his parents died and left him a billion dollars would you expect him to give it up because he has an unfair advantage over others in this life. For example, say he was racing in real life and he inherited a billion dollars and could use that to find an advantage in real life racing that made him unbeatable? Or how about if he raced in GT3 and submitted a new car for homolgation and SRO got the BoP wrong and gave him an advantage that allowed him to win every race, do you think he should just forfeit because it is unfair to his competitors? And if you read what he wrote he is convinced others are using the same bug and he is competing against those on a fair level.

Now I don't know about that but I know asking the guy to give up his account or temporarily abandon his account is unfair. Asking him to waste his time on another save is unfair. We have no idea how PD will handle this if at all. For all we know RA1784 might have been foolish. But hang on, even he defended Devil and said he played on his account again since he said he retired it but people are still singing his praises.

Look we were not out to get him and responded very sensible to Devil at first, no called him a cheater for having the bug, we just stated that knowingly using the bug to benefit yourself is not a nice thing to do. He chose to took it offensive and got defensive and started insulting others. He got banned after only a couple posts in this thread, not because he didnt want to help us but because he cant behave himself. Thats all on him.

Can you post a video supporting your claim of having different braking points and grip everytime you log in. You keep bringin it up, and its not that i doubt you (4500 irating suggest you know your stuff), but in order to help we need actual footage of it.

But people did call him a cheater.

Unfortunately on my internet connection uploading video is very difficult for me and the fact I have no idea how to do that stuff in the first place. I've never tried to even look into how to do it. I guess i could ask my kids. It is midnight here now and the next 2 days are out as I'm the designated driver for family plans. Perhaps if I have time after that I can get the kids to coach me through it. But I think it will be real hard to show for most logins as the differences are usually very small. So far there was only that one login that was drastically different. But put it this way, earlier today I ran a time that made it into the top ten in the Subaru and I made sure to run a ton of laps to get consistent and I even beat that time but a few hundredths. I was able to run multiple laps within a tenth. Not to long ago I finally logged out and logged back in, then I ran more laps. Immediately the car felt different. I tried running the same as I did earlier and kept going off. After adjusting the best I could get was 3 tenths off my previous times in both PB and optimal. I was able to run these new times consistently but no go faster. As for the other claim. Earlier tonight I qualified in the Porsche in Gr.3. First I ran times without TC. Then I ran times with TC. With TC I was over 1 second quicker. After I was satisfied I wasn't able to improve my time I switched to the Viper. My time was two one hundredths slower than the Porsche but the same to the tenth after just a few laps. I'll admit I also tried the Ferrari, if people are driving the same car I have fast then my hats off to them, it doesn't drive anything like any car I have driven in the game. And for what it is worth the Ferrari is one of the first cars I tried on GTS and back then it was completely different but that was when I was originally playing GTS on the PS4 standard before I switched to the Pro.

Perhaps I should mention I had some issues when switching to the Pro. Because of my crappy internet I did that thing where you copy one PS4 over to the other, it took forever but it was the only way I could keep all the games I wanted and I still didn't copy half of them over because of how long it would take. Anyway after I copied the games over I had registration issues with my games bought from the Playstation Store, GTS was purchased from the Playstation Store. It said I have to authorise my PS4 but it was already Authorised. I can't remember how that issue was fixed.

This is just one of the reasons I first want to try my sons PS4 and see what happens. If I don't have an issue on his perhaps I can solve my issue on mine or perhaps I need to contact Sony and get a replacement Playstation. Keep in mind I didn't think there was something wrong before I started testing to see if I had this bug and it is only my back to back testing on multiple accounts that made me look into it deeper. I doubt I would have ever noticed 3 tenths difference previously as it would have been one day to the next and I would have just put it down to inconsistency. I had already grown frustrated with my lack of performance on GTS compared to everywhere else and started to lose interest in this game. But it was only when i tested that account where my brake points were suddenly dramatically earlier and then how it changed to closer to where i usually brake that I realised there was something strange going on and I started looking a bit closer. Previously when my brake points seemed different the next day I would just put it down to driver error and inconsistency. Because the tracks change during the day I have often practiced at night and then when I log in the next morning I am on the same track. Plenty of times overnight I have either gained time or lost time and not been able to find it again but always just considered I was to blame.

 

[Highlandor]

No one has mentioned that bugs / glitches / exploits have been part of Gran Turismo ever since it's been online(?):

GT5 Prologue: Subaru max / min toe glitch (never fixed by PD)
GT5/6: 'reverse ride height' bugs / glitches / exploits (never fixed by PD)

The people using these had the same reaction, some (after it being explained to them) would understand and stop using it, others would take offence as they didn't see it as cheating, only using what was there in the game, others just didn't care - it made them 'fast'.

So why should it be any different now - these previous 'bugs' also affected either the online races or the leaderboards?

Whether something is fair or right in a game like GT is highly subjective and a never ending arguement, it's a huge can of worms.

Look at PD's love of 'cheat cars' within PP / BOP regulations, again, ever since GT has been online there have been obvious cheat cars in each 'class' - did this make it right or wrong to use them when other cars were available? What about driving aids, differences in view (cockpit Vs chasecam), corner cutting Vs '2 wheels on track, driving standards (what is/isn't acceptable contact) etc etc etc...

It doesn't make a difference whether this 'grip bug' is random or deliberate, simply because even if an 'advantage' is available to everyone, not everyone will use it. Does everyone use the 'cheatcars' in each class, nope, there were always some who choose something different.

Even if this 'bug' gets fixed you can still argue 'til the cows come home about what is an unfair advantage or what should or shouldn't happen, or what is right or wrong - that's just the way GT is, and more importantly, always has been.

Until PD genuinely fix this we don't know exactly how, why or who / how many the current bug is affecting.

If you don't think the current public races are fair, there's always the option of creating a room or series for you and your friends (who you feel are not benefiting from this 'bug').

 

[BreakerOhio]

From the games perspective, why would PD create a game where some random cars/accounts ends up with a speed boost, it seems weird and almost as if the game had this ability for some other reason..

Grip boost...
My guess is if it were done intentionally by PD it could be for testing and data collection so they can determine how to patch the games handling physics to appease every side. I noticed login physics differences before, thought it was strange that no patch was out but now my cars started to drive better. I log in the next day and its gone, only a glimpse of it. Interesting.

More in depth thoughts on this.
PD appears on the fence between how much grip they want to give the cars as evidence through the patch changes moving back and forth so quickly between the recent patches and the backlash when they went from icy tires to more grip and resetting your driving school records, then suddenly reverting back to icy and recovering the older times.

On one side you have the thought that if there's realistic grip its too easy of a "game". In general hard games are fun when you overcome the nuances and figure it out. This side wants it to stay a game as they enjoy overcoming the difficulties. I can understand that for a "game", that's why games like Bloodborne and Dark Souls is popular. But should a racing simulator be a game?...or do we want realism?
So on the otherside driving in real life is not like playing the Dark Souls series, a game I like too, it is not approach the edge then spin out and icy tires feeling when yout approach the limit in real life driving at the limits. For a noob yes, if they have no sense of car handling physics will spin when they push too hard but not if you work at it. If you practice for it, you feel the car rotate and catch it and its going to look easy, like an "arcade game". Drifting in real life is an example. Watch driving clips and if recreated liked in GT critics would scream that driving style cannot be done in real life and claim gt an arcade sim. Oh the dilemma PD has.

 

[GT_Alex74]

@Famine Jordan was tagged in OP, and I think some moderators just participated in this topic. Now if there was someone else I should have mentionned or PM'd, I'm sorry to have missed that.

As for writing a front page blog post about this whole issue, I never thought that would be the right thing to do, and seeing how this topic goes makes me glad it's not. I didn't even shared this on my own forum actually, or on the french community GTS Facebook group.

About the bug itself, as said already, I don't think there's much more we can do without developpers tools (or a high pool of data provided by a reasonnable number of "infected" people, which we obviously don't have). But does that matter that much when the main objective was just to attract PD's attention over an issue so they can work on it ? I don't think so, we identified the end result of the bug, and where it was located. Knowing that it provides exactly 1.423 times traction and 1.596 times braking power is not that interesting IMO.

@Highlandor what you mention about GT5/6/Prologue are design issues more than bugs, and were available for everyone to exploit. As long as you knew these things worked, all you had to do was to pull some sliders in the right direction to benefit from it as well, so everyone had the same chances. This here on GTS is not something available to everyone, I can't go into the settings, change my ride height and benefit from that grip bug, thus I don't have the same chances as someone who has the bug, and that's where things are coming unfair.

Short story : everyone can have access to it ? Then just use it, as long as the devs don't change it, consider it is their intent you exploit that. Some people can acces it while some others technically can't ? Then that's unfair, and becomes a core problem for competitive environments.

 

[Famine]

Now if there was someone else I should have mentionned or PM'd, I'm sorry to have missed that.

No need to apologise - that's directed at the users wondering why we haven't written an article about it but didn't think to notify anyone and, as you say, you didn't necessarily want there to be one.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

And if you read what he wrote he is convinced others are using the same bug and he is competing against those on a fair level.

That is how I took his comments as well. Seems he felt that most if not all top 10 drivers had the same "bug".

 

[QTheRacer_31]

No one has mentioned that bugs / glitches / exploits have been part of Gran Turismo ever since it's been online(?):

GT5 Prologue: Subaru max / min toe glitch (never fixed by PD)
GT5/6: 'reverse ride height' bugs / glitches / exploits (never fixed by PD)

The people using these had the same reaction, some (after it being explained to them) would understand and stop using it, others would take offence as they didn't see it as cheating, only using what was there in the game, others just didn't care - it made them 'fast'.

So why should it be any different now - these previous 'bugs' also affected either the online races or the leaderboards?

Whether something is fair or right in a game like GT is highly subjective and a never ending arguement, it's a huge can of worms.

Look at PD's love of 'cheat cars' within PP / BOP regulations, again, ever since GT has been online there have been obvious cheat cars in each 'class' - did this make it right or wrong to use them when other cars were available? What about driving aids, differences in view (cockpit Vs chasecam), corner cutting Vs '2 wheels on track, driving standards (what is/isn't acceptable contact) etc etc etc...

It doesn't make a difference whether this 'grip bug' is random or deliberate, simply because even if an 'advantage' is available to everyone, not everyone will use it. Does everyone use the 'cheatcars' in each class, nope, there were always some who choose something different.

Even if this 'bug' gets fixed you can still argue 'til the cows come home about what is an unfair advantage or what should or shouldn't happen, or what is right or wrong - that's just the way GT is, and more importantly, always has been.

Until PD genuinely fix this we don't know exactly how, why or who / how many the current bug is affecting.

If you don't think the current public races are fair, there's always the option of creating a room or series for you and your friends (who you feel are not benefiting from this 'bug').

The alien setup glitch still works in GTS so now we have fixed setups in Sport Mode.

If you race the track, you’ll be slow. You need to race the game. Cut corners, jump kerbs, etc. All which would get you penalties (or damage) in real life FIA sanctioned championships.

I kind of agree with you. GTS is different though as it wants to be taken seriously by gamers. That’s why it ended up being a mess in the last few pages. The stakes are much higher than in any other racing game so far (on console).

 

[7HO]

I'm just not sure why even he came here in the first place because when he was asked politely at first for assistance in getting to the bottom of this he provided none and still hasn't, on here at least.

I think it is obvious why he came here. People would not have left him alone until he came here. I think it is obvious he felt attacked.

The difference is that this loophole isnt available for all

I got the impression Devil thinks lots of people have it, if not the entire top ten, most of the fastest. Since he believes that, surely you can understand his position, he believes that those people are his direct competition and they are all using the same exploit. I think he believes it would be unfair to him if he gave up his progress while others did not. I also simply think that he shouldn't have to give up all his progress and I think that he shouldn't have to give up playing online or that he should waste time on a new throw away save. I don't think you should have to do that.

AND now I see @Famine has contributed. Obviously I agree.

@7HO If you really think there's something wrong with your account or PS4, then please share some replays, because what you describe just sounds like driver fluctuation to me (on about any racing game I may drive better or worse than last time when I get back on track).

I don't have these fluctuations on iRacing. I don't even have them after a few days in fixed conditions but the comparison here would be the same as simply logging into another session.

To whoever cares. I bought my PS4 Pro because of this game and at this point after today I have lost all faith in this game. Now because of my comments I feel as if I need to put in a lot of effort (for me) and waste valuable internet resources (my uploads count to my quota and my upload speed is 0.75 Mbps max but usually 1/3 of that). I don't really think that is fair because I am not sure how a video demonstrating what happens to me will help solve it. I'm convinced my first priority is to try and establish if my issues are confined to my PS4 Pro and go from there. If I do not have these issues on my sons PS4 then I can set out to try and understand what might be happening. Then perhaps I might have more information to reach out for help in trying to solve it. I've only seen one other person in this thread mention they think their experience changes like mine. And I've stated already that my issues might not be related to this bug. As for me having less grip in general, if anyone has any idea how we can demonstrate that I'm open to suggestions and if there is a way that I can share a replay and others can upload it it might get around my limited internet issues.

EDIT: I had a point and forgot to get to it. These issues are making me regret buying my PS4 Pro and I have strongly been considering abandoning PS4 and going back to PC racing only.

If you race the track, you’ll be slow. You need to race the game. Cut corners, jump kerbs, etc. All which would get you penalties (or damage) in real life FIA sanctioned championships.

I've been meaning to add this plenty of times but keep forgetting and your post just now reminded me. This is also one of the big reasons I'm losing interest in this game. When I watch replays and see how some people exploit the track limits it completely turns me off wanting to play this game if I need to do that to be competitive. And then I sometimes see the top replay is well within the track limits and considering this bug and knowing there are people exploiting the track everywhere they can it makes you wonder how a time so fast is achieved without exploiting the limits.

 

[Shottah072]

I was under the impression he isn't a native English speaker and his analogy wasn't a very good one unfortunately. I think a more fitting example would be if his parents died and left him a billion dollars would you expect him to give it up because he has an unfair advantage over others in this life. For example, say he was racing in real life and he inherited a billion dollars and could use that to find an advantage in real life racing that made him unbeatable? Or how about if he raced in GT3 and submitted a new car for homolgation and SRO got the BoP wrong and gave him an advantage that allowed him to win every race, do you think he should just forfeit because it is unfair to his competitors? And if you read what he wrote he is convinced others are using the same bug and he is competing against those on a fair level.

Now I don't know about that but I know asking the guy to give up his account or temporarily abandon his account is unfair. Asking him to waste his time on another save is unfair. We have no idea how PD will handle this if at all. For all we know RA1784 might have been foolish. But hang on, even he defended Devil and said he played on his account again since he said he retired it but people are still singing his praises.



But people did call him a cheater.

Unfortunately on my internet connection uploading video is very difficult for me and the fact I have no idea how to do that stuff in the first place. I've never tried to even look into how to do it. I guess i could ask my kids. It is midnight here now and the next 2 days are out as I'm the designated driver for family plans. Perhaps if I have time after that I can get the kids to coach me through it. But I think it will be real hard to show for most logins as the differences are usually very small. So far there was only that one login that was drastically different. But put it this way, earlier today I ran a time that made it into the top ten in the Subaru and I made sure to run a ton of laps to get consistent and I even beat that time but a few hundredths. I was able to run multiple laps within a tenth. Not to long ago I finally logged out and logged back in, then I ran more laps. Immediately the car felt different. I tried running the same as I did earlier and kept going off. After adjusting the best I could get was 3 tenths off my previous times in both PB and optimal. I was able to run these new times consistently but no go faster. As for the other claim. Earlier tonight I qualified in the Porsche in Gr.3. First I ran times without TC. Then I ran times with TC. With TC I was over 1 second quicker. After I was satisfied I wasn't able to improve my time I switched to the Viper. My time was two one hundredths slower than the Porsche but the same to the tenth after just a few laps. I'll admit I also tried the Ferrari, if people are driving the same car I have fast then my hats off to them, it doesn't drive anything like any car I have driven in the game. And for what it is worth the Ferrari is one of the first cars I tried on GTS and back then it was completely different but that was when I was originally playing GTS on the PS4 standard before I switched to the Pro.

Perhaps I should mention I had some issues when switching to the Pro. Because of my crappy internet I did that thing where you copy one PS4 over to the other, it took forever but it was the only way I could keep all the games I wanted and I still didn't copy half of them over because of how long it would take. Anyway after I copied the games over I had registration issues with my games bought from the Playstation Store, GTS was purchased from the Playstation Store. It said I have to authorise my PS4 but it was already Authorised. I can't remember how that issue was fixed.

This is just one of the reasons I first want to try my sons PS4 and see what happens. If I don't have an issue on his perhaps I can solve my issue on mine or perhaps I need to contact Sony and get a replacement Playstation. Keep in mind I didn't think there was something wrong before I started testing to see if I had this bug and it is only my back to back testing on multiple accounts that made me look into it deeper. I doubt I would have ever noticed 3 tenths difference previously as it would have been one day to the next and I would have just put it down to inconsistency. I had already grown frustrated with my lack of performance on GTS compared to everywhere else and started to lose interest in this game. But it was only when i tested that account where my brake points were suddenly dramatically earlier and then how it changed to closer to where i usually brake that I realised there was something strange going on and I started looking a bit closer. Previously when my brake points seemed different the next day I would just put it down to driver error and inconsistency. Because the tracks change during the day I have often practiced at night and then when I log in the next morning I am on the same track. Plenty of times overnight I have either gained time or lost time and not been able to find it again but always just considered I was to blame.

But 3 tenths is not much. If you take just 1 or 2 corners slightly different then before when you were in the zone you could lose or gain that. I thinks its normal to not run the same speed every time you go out on track cause every time you need to get back in that zone to hit the PB's or get consistent. And every time your aproach is gonna be slighlty different.

Uploading to youtube is very easy, ask your kids or search a tutorial for it and i am sure you can figure it out. If your connection is bad you can let it upload overnight. But IMO making these claims without any backing is harmfull for this thread as it only leads to speculation.

@Famine IMO yes pointing towards players that are infected with the bug is still the right way when the claims are supported by video evidence, its the only way if we want to research this properly or get a grasp of how widespread it is. The numbers you talk about dont exist or arent available to us so the videos is all we got. They were named for legitimate reasons. They may not like it, it may even be against AUP, but it had to be done in order to review what is happening within the game. The videos and the names are public anyway so i see no problem in sharing them and drawing conclusions from it. I do agree posting private chats is not a good idea though, as is making claims without evidence.

 

[Spurgy 777]

But it seems that I was ignored, because we've had people posting names of people they think are cheating (and thus searchable and indexed by search engines) in this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And this post. And I'm not even halfway through the thread yet.

Posting names of people they think have a bug with their game, not people who are cheating, cheating which would imply they are doing this intentionally and on purpose and for every person we have spoken to with this bug none of them seem aware that anything is wrong, which would suggest they are not cheating. Not a single one of those posts even mention cheating.

So now we have established that none of those posts are accusing people of cheating we just have the issue of whether their names should be public. First off going to a public forum was not my first course of action, in fact I'd been sitting on this for about a month trying to see if I could get any answers or even just this information to PD through the contacts I had but it came to nothing, no indication that anything was being done or even that it had been noticed by anyone while in the meantime more of these laps were popping up on the leaderboards, suggesting it was a growing problem. My next option I felt was to discuss this with the wider community to see if anyone could help, again with the intention of getting some sort of contact with PD to give them the information we have, which is exactly what this thread has achieved hopefully. It was never intended to be a witch hunt and I've argued against anyone who tried to call these people out as hackers or cheaters, making sure to emphasize there is nothing to suggest this is being done intentionally.

Finally we have the issue of should I have mentioned names and I felt it was better to say who was known to have this extra grip so that everyone who saw this thread didn't then go around completely paranoid thinking that anyone faster than them and doing times they can't must have extra grip, therefore in theory avoiding a witch hunt. It's not like their names and replays are private anyway as they are public for everyone to see. Unfortunately people felt the need to go on witch hunt anyway looking for anything and everything they felt suspicious and posting it in the thread instead of privately contacting someone who actually knows what they are looking for to review it and check. But I tried my best to control the discussion at every point to avoid that happening.

I'm by no means perfect and there may well have been a better way of getting a solution to this but I resent the implication that I, and even most of the people who wrote the posts you linked, haven't tried our best to keep this thread as factual and void of accusations as possible and avoid this turning into a witch hunt. In fact the people you linked to are probably those who have been most active in keeping this thread civil so why you've linked them is beyond me.

 

[7HO]

But 3 tenths is not much. If you take just 1 or 2 corners slightly different then before when you were in the zone you could lose or gain that. I thinks its normal to not run the same speed every time you go out on track cause every time you need to get back in that zone to hit the PB's or get consistent. And every time your aproach is gonna be slighlty different.

Uploading to youtube is very easy, ask your kids or search a tutorial for it and i am sure you can figure it out. If your connection is bad you can let it upload overnight. But IMO making these claims without any backing is harmfull for this thread as it only leads to speculation.

That's only if you think I'm making this up. I think all a video can do is prove I'm telling the truth to the doubters. It doesn't change the facts. I don't think it will help the situation at all.

I can run the same times over and over on iRacing days apart even in fixed conditions and that is what we have on GT Sport. I'm not talking about simply logging off and logging on, on iRacing I ran the same times after not playing for a few days to within a tenth in the Cadillac.

To keep it real today I tested in multiple sessions before logging off and ran the same time multiple times in multiple sessions. As I said I beat my time by hundredths and this was done in a separate session, I even drove a different car in between. As long as I did not log off the consistency was there. The only difference was when I logged off and immediately logged back in. After that the car no longer felt the same to drive and I lost 3 tenths. Explain why I was consistent for hours even with driving another car in between and then was unable to back my times up after minutes simply because I logged out of my account and logged back in? This was all performed without TC and without aids in the Subaru which was admittedly very easy to drive and be consistent in. When you have done so many laps it is pretty easy to brake at the same place when you are braking at a mark. When hitting that mark over and over gets the same result but after logging out and back in attempting to brake at that mark results in going off into the sand every time it is obvious something is different and I wasn't just imagining it felt different.

As for uploading the video. I have just calculated that it could take more than 9 hours per gig but if I can keep the video small it may be something that can be done overnight but only if it doesn't need to be constant or can resume by itself because my internet may be interrupted a few times over that period. We recently had storms in the area and I currently can't make or take phone calls because the storms have effected my line. With that we are experiencing internet dropouts. I'm not sure how long it will take to fix.

As for the videos I'm still open to suggestions for how the best way to make them helpful would be and like I said perhaps if I can share the replays on GT Sport and someone else could upload them it would work out easier and quicker. It will still be a few days before I can do that so there is a few days to work out the details. Hopefully first I can test on the other PS4 and get more info. Keep in mind videos will need to be as short as possible. I'm not sure of the best way to test this to make it obvious to the viewer, ideas are welcome. I wish I could do it in the morning but I wont be home, I wish that because the Subaru at Brands Indy is such an easy combo to be consistent at. It is 2 AM now and I should be sleeping because in the morning I have to drive my wife to work and then get the son ready and take him to band practice.

Not a single one of those posts even mention cheating.

Do it. You are officially a cheater now!

 

[RA1784]

Yea. He chose to walk this way and this is the result. And its still my opinion.

 

[7HO]

If anyone cares

 

[Spurgy 777]

@7HO That post was not one of the one's linked by Famine, so my point still stands.

 

[Shottah072]

That's only if you think I'm making this up. I think all a video can do is prove I'm telling the truth to the doubters. It doesn't change the facts. I don't think it will help the situation at all.

I can run the same times over and over on iRacing days apart even in fixed conditions and that is what we have on GT Sport. I'm not talking about simply logging off and logging on, on iRacing I ran the same times after not playing for a few days to within a tenth in the Cadillac.

To keep it real today I tested in multiple sessions before logging off and ran the same time multiple times in multiple sessions. As I said I beat my time by hundredths and this was done in a separate session, I even drove a different car in between. As long as I did not log off the consistency was there. The only difference was when I logged off and immediately logged back in. After that the car no longer felt the same to drive and I lost 3 tenths. Explain why I was consistent for hours even with driving another car in between and then was unable to back my times up after minutes simply because I logged out of my account and logged back in? This was all performed without TC and without aids in the Subaru which was admittedly very easy to drive and be consistent in. When you have done so many laps it is pretty easy to brake at the same place when you are braking at a mark. When hitting that mark over and over gets the same result but after logging out and back in attempting to brake at that mark results in going off into the sand every time it is obvious something is different and I wasn't just imagining it felt different.

As for uploading the video. I have just calculated that it could take more than 9 hours per gig but if I can keep the video small it may be something that can be done overnight but only if it doesn't need to be constant or can resume by itself because my internet may be interrupted a few times over that period. We recently had storms in the area and I currently can't make or take phone calls because the storms have effected my line. With that we are experiencing internet dropouts. I'm not sure how long it will take to fix.

As for the videos I'm still open to suggestions for how the best way to make them helpful would be and like I said perhaps if I can share the replays on GT Sport and someone else could upload them it would work out easier and quicker. It will still be a few days before I can do that so there is a few days to work out the details. Hopefully first I can test on the other PS4 and get more info. Keep in mind videos will need to be as short as possible. I'm not sure of the best way to test this to make it obvious to the viewer, ideas are welcome. I wish I could do it in the morning but I wont be home, I wish that because the Subaru at Brands Indy is such an easy combo to be consistent at. It is 2 AM now and I should be sleeping because in the morning I have to drive my wife to work and then get the son ready and take him to band practice.

I have some real life stuff to attend to right now but i might take you up on this. I or someone else could definetly upload your replays if needed or we could do some testing together. I am not asking these things cause i think you are making this up. In fact it is the opposite, if you have a 4500 irating you obviously should know a thing or two about racing and physics so i am just curious if you are right about this without jumping to early conclusions. Also take to mind that in iRacing you are usually running the same car and tracks for longer periods of time so maybe that factors in as well when looking at consistency.

 

[7HO]

@7HO That post was not one of the one's linked by Famine, so my point still stands.

Only if you choose to ignore the end of what you quoted.

 

[Famine]

Posting names of people they think have a bug with their game, not people who are cheating, cheating which would imply they are doing this intentionally and on purpose and for every person we have spoken to with this bug none of them seem aware that anything is wrong, which would suggest they are not cheating. Not a single one of those posts even mention cheating.

So now we have established that none of those posts are accusing people of cheating we just have the issue of whether their names should be public. First off going to a public forum was not my first course of action, in fact I'd been sitting on this for about a month trying to see if I could get any answers or even just this information to PD through the contacts I had but it came to nothing, no indication that anything was being done or even that it had been noticed by anyone while in the meantime more of these laps were popping up on the leaderboards, suggesting it was a growing problem. My next option I felt was to discuss this with the wider community to see if anyone could help, again with the intention of getting some sort of contact with PD to give them the information we have, which is exactly what this thread has achieved hopefully. It was never intended to be a witch hunt and I've argued against anyone who tried to call these people out as hackers or cheaters, making sure to emphasize there is nothing to suggest this is being done intentionally.

Finally we have the issue of should I have mentioned names and I felt it was better to say who was known to have this extra grip so that everyone who saw this thread didn't then go around completely paranoid thinking that anyone faster than them and doing times they can't must have extra grip, therefore in theory avoiding a witch hunt. It's not like their names and replays are private anyway as they are public for everyone to see. Unfortunately people felt the need to go on witch hunt anyway looking for anything and everything they felt suspicious and posting it in the thread instead of privately contacting someone who actually knows what they are looking for to review it and check. But I tried my best to control the discussion at every point to avoid that happening.

I'm by no means perfect and there may well have been a better way of getting a solution to this but I resent the implication that I, and even most of the people who wrote the posts you linked, haven't tried our best to keep this thread as factual and void of accusations as possible and avoid this turning into a witch hunt. In fact the people you linked to are probably those who have been most active in keeping this thread civil so why you've linked them is beyond me.

There's no implication. You - and others - posted people's usernames in association with this bug and you should not have.

Why they're linked is because they're posts including people's usernames in association with this bug, which should not have been made.

 

[HellzFire]

Just to be clear. In any moment i called these guys cheaters.

My intention all the way was to try and bring them here so we could debate about the glitch and try to provide more information about it.

I did say that if you know you're having an unfair advantage and keeps exploiting it, then you're wrong.

I did mention the names i knew that had the save glitch, but everyone already knew that before i mentioned them.

The picture of the conversation i posted has only one message from a guy saying he knows he has a bug.

I apologise if i broke some rule, was just trying to help GTS being a better game.