GT5 Sound Thread

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5' started by Marry_Me_GT, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. ForceMotion

    ForceMotion

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    I think this is too on the Nissan Silvia S13 K's Dia Selection i heard a different sound with the new patch :tup:
     
  2. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Tried the R32 GTR premium, definitely sound update, bov noise, more sound details while releasing the throttle, blipping throttle on downshift, I hope the next update will have intake sound as well :D

    Update : Cranked up the volume on my HT, I can hear valve noise when idling on the R32 GTR now, above 3000rpm I can hear the turbo spooling up as well - a bit hard to hear tho.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  3. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    YAY! Gotta check this ASAP. Last night I was playing with the Mini Cooper S '11 and noticed the turbo whine (the shhhhhhhh blowing air together with the engine noises) was really noticeable...

    Again, it can be the new "distribution" of sounds that are just making some stuff more noticeable...
     
  4. DonZonda

    DonZonda

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    There is definitely some distribution now. Well I just played some rounds on the Nurb with the Tuned Academy GT-R '12 and it sounds better, you hear distribution. It sounds pretty decent. :)
     
  5. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    I was playing the 4WD seasonal event @ La Sarthe, using my 470pp Lancia Delta Integrale and yes, turbo sounds joined the party using the interior view. Together with the Delta burbling sound, made the whole thing sound interesting.
     
  6. shirakawaa

    shirakawaa Premium

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    Are you sure this isn't the result of PD cranking up the placebo effect?

    Increased sound saturation/distortion in certain views and cars instead, is quite easily verifiable. For the record, I'm using the external secondary stereo output with the AV cable from the PS3 connected to the inputs of my external PC sound card, in direct monitor mode. From GT5 I'm using the Small Theater setting. I'm using AKG 240s headphones.
    This happens also by lowering "race sound effects" to 30% or less. It's clearly a software (GT5) issue.

    On some cars it's quite apparent even with internal views when fitting a custom transmission. An example: '54 Chevrolet Corvette C1. With the 'roof' view I've always heard some amount sound saturation/distortion (not hardware caused), but it appears to have worsened with patch 2.08.
     
  7. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    Yes, it may be. I agree but as they tweaked the sounds to remove the engine sound disappearing effect when you passed an opponent, it could be like some of us are not used anymore to certain sound effects, and now they are noticeable again.

    Even if the sounds are the same, they may have tweaked the saturation/distortion in certain views for sure. As the transmission whine sounds are louder again, together with AI cars sounds, it may be the case. As I said, I'm no sound expert, just writing based on what I can listen when playing after 2.08.

    Griffith500 also commented that looks like they cranked up the volume of exhaust noise in interior views, that is noticeable too as sound in interior views are less muffled.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  8. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    Gentleman, New video Incoming. Now again due to the availability of onboards without talking or good quality, I had to improvise. The end however, I know everyone will love.

    Edit:

     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  9. Amarinsocal

    Amarinsocal

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    ^ BRAVO! :tup:
     
  10. AmericanStig

    AmericanStig (Banned)

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    wow, imagine if it sounded like that in game, i would never stop playing.
     
  11. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    I've always noticed a touch of distortion in the tyre sounds in the roof view, but you're right that it's a bit more noticeable now. Using Large Theatre reduces it slightly compared to the other two modes, depending on how many cars are around you making a racket, so it makes me think it's a clipping issue.
    With Large Theatre, it's tolerable because the times when it kicks in are only really when you're very close to very loud sounds, so in theory, it should sound distorted. The dynamic range compression obviously means that more sounds are closer to this clipping limit more often, so it's possibly less acceptable.

    I was an advocate for a sort of "physically based" distortion, but I hadn't thought about the way that the dynamic range compression would lift everything up into the distortion region. So ideally you'd distort each source according to its "real" volume before mixing and applying the dynamic range compression. Distortion itself is something that is difficult to do both cheaply and pleasantly in real time, so adding more distortion channels will reduce the chance that the distortion "effect" could be improved. In other words, we'd probably have to live with slightly exaggerated distortion when not using Large Theatre, if they can improve the effect at all.

    Saying all that, it probably is just an incorrectly set gain-level causing clipping, and so is technically unintentional. But I think they should attempt to soften it slightly by raising the clipping threshold overall (or rather, reducing gain), and using a separate distortion threshold in conjunction with a limiter (to explicitly prevent clipping) - ideally this second, soft threshold would be higher for the Living Room and Small Theatre settings (and roof view, perhaps) than for Large Theatre. Then any sounds between the distortion threshold and the clipping limit could be subjected to a more pleasing, softer distortion effect, which I think would work well. A user-adjustable limit would be great, too.


    I've also noticed that the stock exhaust sound isn't as quiet relative to the full-race any more. So it seems what they've done is just boost the stock, sports and semi-race exhaust volumes to cover a smaller dynamic range, so masking between them is less apparent, which is probably a good thing.
    I think the stereo mixing might have been improved slightly, which is why I thought the tyre sounds were better - it feels more spatial again, but without the polarity they introduced a few patches ago. They get there in the end, it seems. :p
     
  12. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Reading about the distortion and clipping, I was experimenting with in game sound volume, I settled for 85, with my AVR setup 5.1 DTS and living room. Small theater and large theater, I'll increase volume to 90. Maybe worth a try if it's better for you guys, I like it at 85 or 90.
     
  13. hennessey86

    hennessey86

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    If only
     
  14. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    Ah, I didn't realise that made a difference - I thought the clipping was occurring in-engine and the numbers in the menu just controlled the final mix before sending to the hardware output.
    For reference, I was running sound effects at 35; I use Large Theatre with dynamic range compression handled by my PC (turned off for the tests I was doing at the time) and output to headphones.
     
  15. Foxiol

    Foxiol

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    How about Nascars...i was this past weekend (Saturday and Sunday) at Valencia Ricardo Tormo circuit to see the DTM 2012 Championship race and i also saw the Formula 3000 Euroseries and Nascar Euro cup...some modified Nascar´s to race in regular circuits with V8´s and 420hp "only".

    And yes i made some bad videos because my camera is not HD Sorry but has a very good mic...and i made them short because at the moment you never think about filming...you just enjoy the show...i was inside of an SLS AMG, SL63 AMG , SLK 55 AMG and a C63 AMG prepared to race,and many more stuff...

    A short video that shows a Nascar doing some revs (please don´t subscribe but rate if you want but i don´t care, i made the video for me and to show it to my friends) :



    Asa plus a DTM 2012 car doing some engine warm up too (DTM 2011 doing some laps):

     
  16. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    Wait... I really don't have experience with all this specialized sound talk, and I'm getting confused, so, what the sound effects volume has to do with the whole thing besides the "volume" itself? I know "clipping" as the ammount of sound repetition you get, or the ammount of times a sample gets repeated to generate a certain effect. Is that right? It's the same "clipping" you guys are talking about?

    Really sorry for the noob-ish question, you guys seem to really know about this stuff and I would like to know more about it.

    Probably it'll be useless because of my actual sound setup (RCA plugs on a regular sound system) but its always good to learn something new.

    Thanks!
     
  17. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    The clipping I'm talking about is, assuming that's what's happening, where any audio level above a certain value is just being set to that value - i.e. the waveform is simply "clipped" at that level. That tends to sound pretty nasty for recorded sounds.

    [​IMG]

    In a computer, there is a maximum value that can be used to represent the signal amplitude (which varies from application to application), and if a sound is "louder" than this, it gets clipped (or worse if not handled, e.g. wrapped around, top to bottom). It usually means something has gone wrong somewhere, but it can be intentional (e.g. guitar distortion effects usually have a clipping step). It's also very likely that the clipping is part of an inbuilt level control, but I don't know why a game would use harsh clipping like that and then mix close to the ceiling.

    Your setup should reproduce the distortion just the same, as it's almost certainly in software. Roof view and four-wheel slides work well. :)
     
  18. AmericanStig

    AmericanStig (Banned)

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    Maximum digital output on any computer is 0db no matter the program, limiters and compressors can boost the perceived loudness but they also cause clipping, more gain = more distortion and noise in the signal.
     
  19. Lambofanghini

    Lambofanghini

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    ^Oh my goodness!!! Wow!!
     
  20. phil_75

    phil_75

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    Double "WOW!"
     
  21. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    Yes, at the hardware level. I was talking about the numerical representations before that point, e.g. most DSP is 32-bit floating point, whilst "standard" wave is only 16-bit integer - giving a different precision and range in both cases. The problem often comes when converting from one to another, e.g. a common mapping is the range [-1 1] in floating-point to the signed 16-bit integer scale [-32768 32767] (or about ±2^15, ~ 96 dB range) for the usual PCM output format. The problem (as well as principle advantage) of floating point is that it's very easy to have numbers outside the range [-1 1], because a 32-bit float is bounded roughly by ±10^±96 (~ 1940 dB range!) - remember that a doubling in amplitude gives about a 6 dB rise.
    So when using such representations, it's important to keep it under control - for my experiments in synthesis, I use a limiter to keep output in the desired range at the last minute (but I try to keep the mix away from it). The software I use clips anything outside [-1 1] just before sending it to the audio device, to make sure nothing overflows on conversion; because, once it's gone, we have no real control over it.

    0 dB usually refers to the maximum number available, so that readouts of the amplitude's (usually RMS) magnitude will be in the 0 to -∞ dB range (with 16-bit integers, -∞ dB corresponds to a value of 0; a value of 1, the quietest possible sound, is -96 dB) - it's just a convention. The software I use arbitrarily defines a magnitude of 1 to be 100 dB, for convenience. Note that this means 0 dB is 0.00001; anything at or below that amplitude is clipped to 0 dB, for sanity - in my current listening environment, I can only hear white noise above 20 dB peak-to-peak (10 times "louder" than 0 dB), or -85 dB RMS in the usual notation, anyway.

    I'm not saying this is the cause of the clipping (if it is indeed clipping) in GT5, but it is the sort of thing that can happen before the audio hardware even gets a sniff.
     
  22. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    Thanks for the simple and clever explanation. I got it now! :)
     
  23. Crowood

    Crowood

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    I stumbled over this vid



    In the beginning are intake sounds, right :idea: (besides the turbochargeing noise)
     
  24. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    It's hard to tell in that video.

    This one is a bit more distinct, but there is a lot going on, so it's a great reference for the sorts of things you need to account for with turbocharged cars.



    30s onwards is almost pure exhaust sound, on and off throttle, on and off boost; that should help to exclude it later.
    There's a very distinct moment of intake sound at 1:02, before the boost builds and the screamer pipe (wastegate dumping straight to atmosphere) opens. You can hear the intake again briefly at 1:13, going through the gears after 1:28, and when it gets back on the throttle at 2:14. Then you should be able to recognise it from the interior views, too.

    You might need headphones or similar to discern the details.
     
  25. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    ^ That video is a good example of how GT5 should sound. If that becomes reality in the next game, or something similar in details, not even you know who can compete in sound department.

    I drove the stock F40 early today, it sounds different than the last version, can anybody confirm this ? Even during replay, now the sound feels more realistic.
     
  26. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    I'll drive it tonight, then I tell what I think about it.

    I drove several turbocharged cars in stock form or at least with stock exhaust only (specially jdm machines, RX7, S13, S15, R32, etc) in the last 2 days and I can tell the turbocharger sound its definitely more noticeable. Ok, I've said that already. :dunce:

    PD could at least give us some variety of blow off sounds. Its almost the same thing since GT2 if I'm not mistaken. :guilty:

    And that R33 sound so damn juicy. Delicious sound. If only...
     
  27. ForceMotion

    ForceMotion

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    I tried it, noticed a few changes you can hear the turbo and the spooling a lot better and even the exhaust tone is slightly changed def more releastic.. I also think some of the standard Honda's like the Integra, had some exhaust changes again and also the stock subaru's but maybe thats just me.. That skyline GTR34 and 33 sound so good, PD should get it close to that since they almost made the sound perfect from the Nissan GTR :tup: And i agree, we need (a lot) more BOV sounds like those crazy whistle ones, i really dislike hearing the same one on every car in GT5 that has a turbo..
     
  28. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    You'll be surprised when you drive the McLaren MP4-12C, it sounds much better as well.
     
  29. Z1-AV69

    Z1-AV69

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    I noticed that too today. I could never stand the stock exhaust before, especially combined with a custom gearbox. After the patch that sounds actually good.
     
  30. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    One more to try, for me too! :) Together with the F40.

    For those reading our posts, we are talking about minor adjustments made by PD, it's not a complete sound overhaul.

    It's better to talk like this until someone come and say: "Yo liars! Sound is still crap!"