Kevin Ward

[MustangRyan]

Reflective stripes would be worth a lot more if the cars had headlights. Otherwise, it's likely that the reflections didn't shine in the direction of the other cars. Think about the angle of the track lights, and where the reflection would be aimed in reflection.

 

[Jahgee]

New York has some strict laws compared to other states in almost anything

 

[FormulaKimball]

The "orange fluorescent stripes" on KW's overalls are clearly noted. I have to say that I didn't personally see their effect on the video, but that means nothing.

This sounds like a combination of blinkered (if completely understandable) rage and some lawyer-speak. They're not quite claiming a case in the final collision but that article summarises a pretty well-hedged bet, in my opinion.

The whole thing's just really sad, if I was KW's dad I'd blame Stewart too, no doubt. It would be irrational but whatever.

I think it's funny how the article mentions *three times* that Tony pushed Kevin into the wall, which starts to put images in your mind of full body-to-body shoving like you see in NASCAR but simply isn't possible with open wheels... and also, Kevin sr. admits he didn't see the crash that killed his son. His anger and hurt are understandable of course. But the rest is just speculation - unfortunately when sensational text is posted, it doesn't have to be factual to take hold of public opinion and get endlessly repeated.

No matter how many times I watch the video, back it up, pause it, slowly advance, etc... the conclusion is the same. Kevin lost the position entering the corner, and never recovered more than a wheel overlapping Tony's rear wheel on the exit. Yes Tony went a bit high but there was still a car width next to him, and Kevin was refusing to let the pass happen and already starting to lose it and spin well before he reached the wall, hence hitting hard against his right rear tire. It amazes me how often the driver on the outside refuses to give up and then gets livid when he runs out of road. Crash your car instead of just letting the pass happen, why would you do that? Run down into the racing line instead of throwing birdies to your heart's content from behind your car (or the wall), why would you do that? I don't want people to think of Kevin Ward poorly, but the fact remains if he had stayed in his car we wouldn't be talking about him like this... as someone else said, he could have been fixing his car and grumbling about that rich fat jerk that pushed him into the wall.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I guess you could see it as a perfect storm of Stewart's hard-headed long-time experience versus the do-or-crash of a fired-up rookie.

Stewart did kind-of run him out of road, most competitors would have seen the loss and started looking at getting some power down to the inside.

I've only seen the initial crash from one angle but it just looks to me like KW never gave up on the place, even when he had nowhere to take the fight. Stewart helped him up there but he was hardly hung out there.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I guess you could see it as a perfect storm of Stewart's hard-headed long-time experience versus the do-or-crash of a fired-up rookie.

Stewart did kind-of run him out of road, most competitors would have seen the loss and started looking at getting some power down to the inside.

I've only seen the initial crash from one angle but it just looks to me like KW never gave up on the place, even when he had nowhere to take the fight. Stewart helped him up there but he was hardly hung out there.

Yes but we see that almost every weekend in F1 and what does the driver on the outside do when this happens, he backs out and undercuts setting up the fellow driver to either re pass or complete a pass that was started several corners ago. No it's not the same type of racing but the same racing concepts apply and I've seen enough world of outlaw races and local dirt track races where drivers on the outside will back out and let the pass happen only to take it back the same way a lap or two later.

 

[TenEightyOne]

@LMSCorvetteGT2 , that's what I'm saying, I guess Stewart would have closed the door expecting KW to accept the place loss and shape up to repass.

KW kept his foot in (and I'm no expert on that style of racing but I've seen drivers get out of that high spot before now) and the wall made him give it up first.

 

[FormulaKimball]

Yes but we see that almost every weekend in F1 and what does the driver on the outside do when this happens, he backs out and undercuts setting up the fellow driver to either re pass or complete a pass that was started several corners ago. No it's not the same type of racing but the same racing concepts apply and I've seen enough world of outlaw races and local dirt track races where drivers on the outside will back out and let the pass happen only to take it back the same way a lap or two later.

Amen, and I've been sternly corrected once by a racing instructor for not taking advantage of this concept (check up harder, set up the counterattack). Red mist has a tendency to make you get all OCD about every little position change in every corner and not accept the inevitable.

To borrow another F1 term that we hear often, in the end I'd call what happened with Tony and Kevin and the wall a racing incident. Shared responsibility or whatever but this is racing, neither driver wants to give up and that's what we want to see to some extent. You just gotta deal with the consequences in a calm manner.

 

[Rich S]

I hope this is just a stage of grief speaking and not from a lawyer's script. http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....about_his_son_his_death_and_tony_stewart.html

I happen to totally agree with what the family has to say. It looks like Stewart just had a superiority complex as many top racers do and decided to flick Ward into the wall. Maybe he's a psychopath who knows, certainly not us armchair experts and that includes all the top experts on here who claim to know for a fact that Stewart is innocent and its all just a big accident.

I happen to agree with the Ward family that Stewart is an ass, never liked him and now I hate him even more.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I happen to totally agree with what the family has to say. It looks like Stewart just had a superiority complex as many top racers do and decided to flick Ward into the wall.

Seems pretty even and non-judgemental so far.

Maybe he's a psychopath

Gosh, really? Who knows...

who knows

Ah, of course. I don't know how well informed we are as internet viewers though?

certainly not us armchair experts

True, true. But there are some really top experts on here. Some of them are saying it's all a horrid accident, actually.

and that includes all the top experts on here who claim to know for a fact that Stewart is innocent and its all just a big accident.

Ah, oh.

I happen to agree with the Ward family that Stewart is an ass,

Some people might say you had a very polarised view, maybe think that you kind of came into the whole thing with some anti-Stewart bias?

never liked him

I guess dislike isn't too bad, we can probably all work this through, right?

now I hate him even more.

Okay, well, thanks for stopping by.

 

[Tornado]

So putting another driver into a wall on a dirt track = "maybe a psychopath."


Got it.

 

[IforceV8]

Robin Miller's column. http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/item/107403-miller-tony-stewart-and-the-tragedy-at-canandaigua

 

[GTPorsche]

Robin Miller's column. http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/item/107403-miller-tony-stewart-and-the-tragedy-at-canandaigua

There's even a new video that appears to show Ward reaching to grab Stewart's wing, although it's far from conclusive – just like the video we've been watching for five days.

If that's true, then Ward was the one acting negligent...

 

[Blitz24]

If that's true, then Ward was the one acting negligent...

If he's grabbing the wing it's beyond negligent, it's borderline Darwin award worthy.

 

[RACECAR]

So putting another driver into a wall on a dirt track = "maybe a psychopath."


Got it.

By that logic then, we have a lot of "Psychopaths" that are out there every weekend.


Love how quick people want to be the Judge & jury.

 

[MustangRyan]

A zoomed in, slow-motion view of the accident has now been posted on YouTube, and it really looks like Ward tried to ride on the side of Stewart's car, hanging from the wing, before falling off. It's amazing how much more you notice when you blow it up and slow it down.

 

[niky]

I wouldn't read anything into that. At that point, he's in danger, and he's trying to keep himself from getting sucked under the tire. To grab at the wing is a reflexive action to protect himself, nothing more.

As mad as Kevin was, I don't think he'd be stupid enough to try to hitch a ride on a steamroller by climbing between the rollers. Maybe blinded enough by anger to not be able to accurately judge the path of the cars through the corner... but not that mad.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I wouldn't read anything into that. At that point, he's in danger, and he's trying to keep himself from getting sucked under the tire. To grab at the wing is a reflexive action to protect himself, nothing more.

As mad as Kevin was, I don't think he'd be stupid enough to try to hitch a ride on a steamroller by climbing between the rollers. Maybe blinded enough by anger to not be able to accurately judge the path of the cars through the corner... but not that mad.

I concur, I think it's reflexive if indeed that's what he's doing at all.

Regarding the "second video" that Robin Miller writes of; I can't find any trace of it before I make comment, can't find it in any of the usual places. Don't post the video but has anybody actually seen it elsewhere?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I concur, I think it's reflexive if indeed that's what he's doing at all.

Regarding the "second video" that Robin Miller writes of; I can't find any trace of it before I make comment, can't find it in any of the usual places. Don't post the video but has anybody actually seen it elsewhere?

I've looked also, can't find anything. Don't talk about something if you don't post a link.

 

[niky]

Well, a lot of people are talking about it. The police, supposedly have a second video. Or it could be in reference to the blown up and slowed down copy of the current video that's been circulating for a while.

 

[Ganon83]

Well, a lot of people are talking about it. The police, supposedly have a second video. Or it could be in reference to the blown up and slowed down copy of the current video that's been circulating for a while.

If it was that, the police wouldn't of said they were analyzing a 2nd video.
I doubt the 2nd video is conclusive evidence for or against Tony anyway (Which at this point is either if he didn't have anytime to brake and get out of the way or if he was trying to "scare" Ward Jr., which would lead to charges). If it was they would of either say so and drop the "At this time, we don't have any evidence, etc." or turn the case over to the DA.

 

[MustangRyan]

I've looked also, can't find anything. Don't talk about something if you don't post a link.

Here's a link stating that authorities have received a 2nd video that shows a different angle of the crash. It hasn't been made public, but it does apparently exist.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/...sprint-car-crash-canandaigua-motorsports-park

 

[TenEightyOne]

If it was that, the police wouldn't of said they were analyzing a 2nd video

The comments further to the 2nd video were in response to Robin Miller's articulated implication that a 2nd video (or the same 2nd video) was doing the rounds in the public domain.

Nobody can judge what they video shows until they've seen it.

I doubt the 2nd video is conclusive evidence for or against Tony anyway

Have you seen it? That's surely a guess.

“At this time, there are no facts that exist that support any criminal behavior or conduct or any probable cause of a criminal act in this investigation,” Povero (Ontario County Sheriff) said. “This is an open investigation. What I just said is not indicative that the investigation is over or conclusions have been made.”

The second video (and there is no knowledge of a Go-Pro style camera on Stewart's car) has been seen by the investigators and they seem happy that nothing there factually supports a charge.

Povero again asked for the public’s help if they have video of the crash. He said he had no knowledge of any cameras that were on Stewart’s car. The new video obtained Monday shows a different angle of the crash than what investigators had.

 

[gurizzi]

No matter what is said from both sides (Stewart) or (Ward Jr.) anyone who has ANY racing experience knows one of the most important rules is; NEVER STEP ON TO A LIVE/HOT RACING COURSE. Either way, this is VERY sad & we can debate forever what he 'should' have done.

 

[JMoney]

This is beginning to remind me of the Treyvon Martin case...

 

[Ganon83]

This is beginning to remind me of the Treyvon Martin case...

Not really, I doubt Tony could accidently hit him with the car. Either he didn't see him or he didn't have the time to react when he saw Ward Jr.
Now, the initial reason for all of this crap going down in Ferguson reminds me of the Martin case, but that's another story for a much different thread in another part of the forum.

 

[niky]

In the Martin case, Zimmerman didn't accidentally shoot Martin, he simply shot him. The whole case then became one of establishing just cause.

In this case, Tony was piloting a car that just happened to hit Ward. As in any vehicular incident, it then becomes a case of showing whether or not the driver was exercising reasonable caution, first and foremost, before going on to whether it was negligence or intent that caused the accident.

 

[RACECAR]

This is beginning to remind me of the Treyvon Martin case...

Please explain to me how the hell a case of an accident reminds you of a case involving an intentional murder.

 

[Müle]

God. How did I know that some internet tuff guy keyboard warrior was eventually gonna bring THAT up.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Please explain to me how the hell a case of an accident reminds you of a case involving an intentional murder.

It's an illuminati thing, I guess. Next thing we know Tony Stewart will retire from racing, that'll be proof that the whole thing was some plot instigated by sponsors/martians/David-Icke/The-Should-Kaz-Resign-thread.

Empire News actually ran just such a story (Empire: Tony Stewart to Announce Retirement) then had to quickly point out that they're a satirical publication after the story was circulated by the scrapers.

Reading their story I fail to see the satire, I really do.

 

[a6m5]

Is it so hard to see where JMoney's coming from? Not that I'd compare these two very different incidents, personally, but in both of these cases, we can never know the intent of the shooter, or the driver that some are accusing of murder, manslaughter, or whatever. And @RACECAR, you are free to believe whatever you like, but Zimmerman got off on self-defense.