New F1 Qualifying Format for 2016.

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Anyway, qualifying doesn't need to be entertaining, that part is true.

What it doesn't need to be is about 50% of the sessions devoid of any activity due to rules regarding the cars. Making it one long session will only exacerbate the issue. Keeping it segmented and a knockout format is fine, but not with hard count timed eliminations.

👍 Yet how to fix it where bernie is happy (or just get rid of bernie)

 

[Samus]

No series runs the same pace across teams. What I'm trying to say is changing qualifying to anything will not change the outcome of qualifying. The fast guys will always be out front and the slow guys will always be at the back. Trying to make qualifying "entertaining" is never going to happen. It's not the job of qualifying to be entertaining and to expect such is Ludicrous!

Ok it's never going to be off the scale exciting but personally I found the old system with cars coming across the line one by one, the tension and excitement was high whether they would improve. That's not just for pole either, you had 8-10 cars finishing at or after the chequered flag, all with their final push. You saw shock jumps into the top three right at the death, four or five cars hitting pole only to be beaten and so on.

Even with the early sessions you could have some excitement, cars just sneaking it at the last moment, other drivers missing out you didn't expect. Or you had the race against time for the pit crew to get a car ready, doing so just in time for one hot lap at the end of Q1, can they make it?! No such thing here, if we get to a race where a car isn't quite ready at start of Q1, he's out.

With this format it can just never build to a climax. Remember even if this system worked perfectly as the FIA intended you would still only have two cars running at the death of each session. One will end up first, one second. There is no place for the guy in 9th to put together a stellar lap and jump to 3rd, he is long out of the picture.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Ok it's never going to be off the scale exciting but personally I found the old system with cars coming across the line one by one, the tension and excitement was high whether they would improve. That's not just for pole either, you had 8-10 cars finishing at or after the chequered flag, all with their final push. You saw shock jumps into the top three right at the death, four or five cars hitting pole only to be beaten and so on.

Even with the early sessions you could have some excitement, cars just sneaking it at the last moment, other drivers missing out you didn't expect. Or you had the race against time for the pit crew to get a car ready, doing so just in time for one hot lap at the end of Q1, can they make it?! No such thing here, if we get to a race where a car isn't quite ready at start of Q1, he's out.

With this format it can just never build to a climax. Remember even if this system worked perfectly as the FIA intended you would still only have two cars running at the death of each session. One will end up first, one second. There is no place for the guy in 9th to put together a stellar lap and jump to 3rd, he is long out of the picture.

Take out the stupid counter and it's still the same thing will the guy at the bottom move up higher. the only difference is where the start finish line "is" for each one.

Wanting to cross the line just before your timer runs out. Hoping to move up and knock that next guy down to the drop zone. It's still a game of chess and if they (the teams) wanted to make it exciting. They would figure out a way to cross the line just before the timer runs out. Most teams know roughly where in the grid they are fighting for and could make it the intense action FIA is looking for. They (the teams) are choosing not to fight for that time and have been sitting in the pits instead of getting out their with time for a run.

Last season they (the teams) would calculate it out so they (the team) would be that last guy to cross some teams would get it right and make that advance some teams would miss.

Hulkenberg did it today in Q2 jumping into the safe zone with seconds to spare on the timer.

 

[Samus]

Take out the stupid counter and it's still the same thing will the guy at the bottom move up higher. the only difference is where the start finish line "is" for each one.

Wanting to cross the line just before your timer runs out. Hoping to move up and knock that next guy down to the drop zone. It's still a game of chess and if they (the teams) wanted to make it exciting. They would figure out a way to cross the line just before the timer runs out. Most teams know roughly where in the grid they are fighting for and could make it the intense action FIA is looking for. They (the teams) are choosing not to fight for that time and have been sitting in the pits instead of getting out their with time for a run.

Last season they (the teams) would calculate it out so they (the team) would be that last guy to cross some teams would get it right and make that advance some teams would miss.

Hulkenberg did it today in Q2 jumping into the safe zone with seconds to spare on the timer.

Except in the old system there is one timer for everyone at the end of the session, not an individual timer on each position. I already explained why that gave us better excitement.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Except in the old system there is one timer for everyone at the end of the session, not an individual timer on each position. I already explained why that gave us better excitement.

Whatever. I'm done

 

[Scuderia Paul]

This qualifying format is crap and has to go. There is too much time lost to inactivity and I don't feel any tension. Last season we had tension when the session time expired yet there were drivers on track putting in their last ditch attempts. The instant elimination is not helping the situation this year.

 

[CarreraGT]

WTF I thought they agreed after qualifying in Australia that this format would be scrapped... Its a disgrace!

I don't even understand why they changed it in the first place, the old format was brilliant! In fact a lot of the time I found myself enjoying qualifying more than the actual race!

 

[Samus]

So Todt wants to propose even more quickly thought up tweaks to the new format and stubbornly still won't put the old system on the table.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...iscuss-extra-tyres-shoot-out-solution-683939/

So obviously teams are not going to unainmous and either it'll end up being forced to stick with this yet again or they're going to be forced to choose the lesser of two evils again. We could end up with 4 or 5 different quali setups this season at this rate, finally going back to the 2015 version in Abu Dhabi.

 

[spacecowboy73]

Get rid of the 3 qualifiers make it 1 long session and do it like that let's see.

They already did that in the '90s and the first half hour no one was on track.

This whole thing is stupid since for once the teams were unanimous on an issue but the FIA wouldn't for some reason let them vote to bring back the old qualifying system. I think this shows how the rule formation for F1 is broken right now, as some drivers have said.

 

[mustafur]

They already did that in the '90s and the first half hour no one was on track.

That was mainly due to the maximum 12 lap rule.

Either way they should go to the old format, however in the Autosport article there is talks of a possible 1 Lap Shoutout for Final 8 in Q3.

That would be awesome imo.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't even understand why they changed it in the first place, the old format was brilliant!

According to Todt, the race promoters wanted the change.

 

[spacecowboy73]

That was mainly due to the maximum 12 lap rule.

Either way they should go to the old format, however in the Autosport article there is talks of a possible 1 Lap Shoutout for Final 8 in Q3.

That would be awesome imo.

I would prefer just one flying lap for each driver like we also had in the past to this manufactured drama we have now.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Obvious solution is obvious: 2015 qualifying, with one-lap shootout for the top ten after Q3.

 

[mustafur]

Obvious solution is obvious: 2015 qualifying, with one-lap shootout for the top ten after Q3.

They do seem keen to keep Q3 to 8 drivers though, which would make the Shoutout even easier to implement.

From Toto:

"Maybe there is a different format that could be interesting. He said a single-lap shootout for the last eight drivers, which could be interesting."

Atleast it looks to be on their radar.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Eight drivers makes sense, because then seven drivers are eliminated in Q1, seven in Q2, and eight fight it out in Q3. And if a twelfth team can be found, it will be eight, eight and eight. Plus, it makes P9 and P10 lucrative for the strong midfielders.

 

[GTPorsche]

👍 Yet how to fix it where bernie is happy (or just get rid of bernie)

Bernie isn't the issue. He's the commercial rights holder, not the rulemaker.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

There's one good thing about the format: we got a sexy lap from Hammie. 👍

Other than that, the current format just switches the emphasis from the end of the session to the beginning and middle, which leaves a bitter taste in the end.

 

[GTPorsche]

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Sounds like the delay is being caused because the team principals feel that they can't afford to get it wrong:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123599/f1-fails-to-agree-on-qualifying-change

Curious as to what the new proposal is.

 

[Samus]

WTF?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-the-new-qualifying-idea-f1-is-looking-at-684341/

Bernie Ecclestone and Jean Todt have given their backing to a new "aggregate" qualifying system which will be evaluated in the coming days prior to further discussions on Thursday.
Ecclestone and FIA president Todt did not want to go straight back to 2015 qualifying format, and instead they have suggested a way of modifying it with the specific intention of keeping the track busier for the whole session than was the case in the past.

The idea is that every driver's time will be an aggregate of two quick laps in each of the three sessions.

There is clearly an impact on tyre usage if the team opts to do those laps with a different set of tyres each time, although the alternative route is to run a slow lap in between two fast laps on the same set.

"It was a lively but healthy discussion," Red Bull boss Christian Horner told Motorsport.com. "Obviously qualifying was discussed at length. I think the teams would be happy to go back to 2015, but the promoter and FIA were not so keen.

"A compromise has been put on the table and the teams have got until Thursday to consider it. In all honestly it's better than what we have, much closer to last year's system, but it just needs further analysis.

"It's really to go back more towards 2015 qualifying format, but instead of one times lap per session, it's the aggregate of two timed laps.

"But of course that has complexities with tyres, but it just needs to be fully considered. The tyres are the key thing that needs to be fully understood."

Horner confirmed that the option of going straight back to 2015 was not on offer: "I think the teams have been unanimous for a while that the easiest thing is to go back to 2015.

"That's not possible, so we have to try to find a compromise. Let's consider it properly rather than rushing into a decision today."

Are they doing this on purpose now? I was semi-joking when I said earlier we might have 5 different systems this year.

 

[AudiMan2011]

WTF?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-the-new-qualifying-idea-f1-is-looking-at-684341/



Are they doing this on purpose now? I was semi-joking when I said earlier we might have 5 different systems this year.

Didn't they try an aggregate system before back in 2005? It didn't work then and it wouldn't work now.

 

[Samus]

Didn't they try an aggregate system before back in 2005? It didn't work then and it wouldn't work now.

They did, and it didn't. It's confusing for fans and ultimately pointless but it seems they are determined to "shake up the grid" one way or another.

 

[AudiMan2011]

They did, and it didn't. It's confusing for fans and ultimately pointless but it seems they are determined to "shake up the grid" one way or another.

I still believe F1 should take a leaf out of Indycar's book in regards to a good qualifying system. Then again, the FIA are probably just that brainless, they'll completely ignore it like they usually do.

 

[Samus]

I still believe F1 should take a leaf out of Indycar's book in regards to a good qualifying system. Then again, the FIA are probably just that brainless, they'll completely ignore it like they usually do.

Whatever they do with it they need to stop experimenting on the main event during the season with random, untested ideas. FIA have plenty of racing series, test them out there.

 

[Telstar]

You know, they could simply revert back to the fully functioning qualifying format of last year. But that was a reasonable idea, so obviously it has no place in F1.

 

[Samus]

You know, they could simply revert back to the fully functioning qualifying format of last year. But that was a reasonable idea, so obviously it has no place in F1.

The root of the problem is Mercedes domination. At least, from the POV of the FIA and FOM. They are determined to see the grid "mixed up" with Mercedes not 1-2 or close to it. They don't believe that is ever likely to happen under the old system and are therefore stubbornly refusing to go back to it, they seemingly instead want to keep coming up with new ideas to try and achieve their goal, even if it is even more detrimental to the sports image than one team dominating.

Fans know it's stupid, most of the paddock know it's stupid, but hey ho. It's the F1 clown show.

 

[Peter.]

I still believe F1 should take a leaf out of Indycar's book in regards to a good qualifying system. Then again, the FIA are probably just that brainless, they'll completely ignore it like they usually do.

We already had a good qualifying system. No one was upset with the old system.

One team dominating is a part of the sport, it's happened many times in history and will keep happening for some time. No one complained about qualifying when Vettel steamrolled it, when Ferrari were dominating the sport like this a decade ago, when Williams were miles ahead in 1992-1993, when turbocharged engines were in a class of their own in the 80s, when Lotus took the 70s by storm, or when Mercedes dominated the sport the first time.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

WTF?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-the-new-qualifying-idea-f1-is-looking-at-684341/

Are they doing this on purpose now? I was semi-joking when I said earlier we might have 5 different systems this year.

It boggles my mind that anyone could ever suggest a qualifying system that involves extra sums as a good idea. That this is F1's second time suggesting it is beyond parody.

What I really don't understand though is that surely this would have the opposite effect of mixing up the grid? Sure there might be times when teams mess up the tyre usage, but more often than not won't the second lap just offer the opportunity for Mercedes/Ferrari to assert their advantage, or recover their position if the first lap wasn't good?

Someone pass the brick wall please............

 

[Telstar]

The root of the problem is Mercedes domination. At least, from the POV of the FIA and FOM. They are determined to see the grid "mixed up" with Mercedes not 1-2 or close to it. They don't believe that is ever likely to happen under the old system and are therefore stubbornly refusing to go back to it, they seemingly instead want to keep coming up with new ideas to try and achieve their goal, even if it is even more detrimental to the sports image than one team dominating.

Fans know it's stupid, most of the paddock know it's stupid, but hey ho. It's the F1 clown show.

That's certainly true. Nobody, no FIA, no Bernie, was complaining if the grid was close from first to last. This produces close racing and mixed up grids by itself.

 

[Peasantslayer]

The fastest lap in Q3 should be the one that gets pole, this aggregate lap time idea is even worse than the idea to change a qualifying system that works and has done for years. F1 is run by stubborn old farts that are out of touch with their fans.