QM Exiles

  • Thread starter Thread starter bone_tone
  • 1,794 comments
  • 103,490 views
The rules are almost decided, a machine for championship (which could also be extracted by lot), ballast yes, fuel consumption No, consumption tires yes, tuning prohibited etc.
I think at this point the hardest thing is to determine the day and time of the week to do the races.
It ' clear that if it will be 10 races we will not have all always present but this is normal in all amateur leagues and just add the row of races made to the official rankings.
 
ROCKET JOE
Checked for BoP values and then set them manually. Did around 10 laps and consistency was within 3 or 4 tenths after warmup. Added 72 kg ballast then. Keep in mind that you can not add specific amounts because it's a percent slider, so added portions depend on the stock weight of the car. Anyway, I indeed was about 1 sec slower, consistently again. On a sidenote, PWR could be helpful here, pity it doesn't exist in the tuning section.
Click to expand...

Nonno Calvy
This morning I did some testing at the Litorale Dragon Trail:
(The ballast does not go to KG but a percentage)
Alfa 4C Gr. 4
300 HP 1020 Kg 1.46 .5 standard
300 hp 1101 kg 1.47, 3 8% + weight
300 hp 1122 kg 1.47, 7 10% + weight
300 hp 1173 kg 1.48, 4 15% + weight
300 hp 1224 kg 1.49, 0 20% + weight
tyre consumption; 1x, 2x almost Nil
Click to expand...

Mwerte
I l testing too for ballast and what i found is alarming : like in gt6 you can change the position of the ballast and manage a good setting but here in Gts i didnt found or it doesnt exist .... i try different ballast and once you start with more than 75kg the car become undrivable it like it put all the weight in one side and it ruin the drivabilite of the car
I try the veyron ....with a limit of 50kg you can manage it but more than that it doesnt brake easy it like gts always put the weight in the front same thing for others cars ( only gr4 ) vantage , m4 , atenza ...all the cars have the same problems hard to brake ...wont turn if you re still braking
Click to expand...

Perfect job. Thanks for doing it so quickly.👍

The elephant in the room is the ballast for 2nd, 3rd etc and what to set them to as it's based on percentage. If it's 8, 10 and 15% for the first 3 steps, it may need limiting to the podium places or abandoning the success ballast altogether and going with a power reduction instead. I'll do a test tonight to see what's what.
 
Just had a look at how the ballast would turn out and it's not good. Without BoP turned on, adding 1-5% from 5th to 1st respectively can mean anything from 60-80+ added KG's and with a car like the 4C, it takes it completely out of the running. Removing a % of power however means a drop of around 4-30hp for most of the cars I looked at and the torque takes quite a big hit.

Sooo... I was wondering... Would there be any kind volunteers who'd love to gain a little more karma by testing the effect of a power drop instead of weight?

A couple of default power laps compared to -5%. I imagine 5% will be too big a reduction (judging by the torque drop) and if it is, we'll set the success power cuts to a level that equals nearest to 1 second a lap. If it means only 1st, 2nd and 3rd get a cut, it simplifies things even more.
 
I ran a few laps round Tsukuba in the 4C. At 95% there wasn't much in it - 3 or 4 tenths. At 90% it was more like a second.

...and then Dragon Trail - 1.46.5 at 100%, 1:48 at 95%.

So its looking like at 5% down you'll lose about 0.5 to 0.75 seconds per minute. Error bars very wide here.

It's quite fun chasing your 100% ghost in a 95% car. Given enough time I reckon I could get close and I'm sure one of our better drivers could beat it. That's what we're looking for, right?

...and the Viper at DT was about a second down at 95%.
 
Last edited:
StirlingMoose
I ran a few laps round Tsukuba in the 4C. At 95% there wasn't much in it - 3 or 4 tenths. At 90% it was more like a second.

...and then Dragon Trail - 1.46.5 at 100%, 1:48 at 95%.

So its looking like at 5% down you'll lose about 0.5 to 0.75 seconds per minute. Error bars very wide here.

It's quite fun chasing your 100% ghost in a 95% car. Given enough time I reckon I could get close and I'm sure one of our better drivers could beat it. That's what we're looking for, right?

...and the Viper at DT was about a second down at 95%.
Click to expand...
I've messed around in races with fuel settings and gone faster on fuel map 2 than 1. Easier to control maybe???:confused:
 
StirlingMoose
I ran a few laps round Tsukuba in the 4C. At 95% there wasn't much in it - 3 or 4 tenths. At 90% it was more like a second.

...and then Dragon Trail - 1.46.5 at 100%, 1:48 at 95%.

So its looking like at 5% down you'll lose about 0.5 to 0.75 seconds per minute. Error bars very wide here.

It's quite fun chasing your 100% ghost in a 95% car. Given enough time I reckon I could get close and I'm sure one of our better drivers could beat it. That's what we're looking for, right?

...and the Viper at DT was about a second down at 95%.
Click to expand...

That'll do me. Thanks for doing it mate.👍

Reducing power sounds like the best option to me as the ballast amounts were all over the place. .5-.75 sounds like a reasonable reduction of pace for normal flatter tracks and tracks with inclines should add a little more.

Top 5 places drop power.:cheers:
 
I had come a doubt on the BoP yes or no and I checked out this morning.
It presents a problem, without the BoP the cars have very different returns. I have always tested on Trail Dragon 6 car, with only ABS, high cut penalties, no tuning, RH etc.
I did 3 to 5 laps for each car, so limited, but equivalent results between them.
Alfa 4c 1.47, 2; Atenza 1.48 2.5; Cayman 1.45, 3; GTR 1.47, 0; Bugatti 1.48, 0; Huracan 1.46, 3.
Other riders will have different results, but the laps I did were all clean and similar, perhaps not at the most possible but fast.
Since there are 3 seconds between the fastest and the slowest on that circuit, I can say that ballast or power reduction can be put into practice only if everyone will have the same car in the race night.
Greetings and Kisses :D
 
nordschleife51
Kudos to all involved in getting this off the ground. 👍 Should be an interesting exercise, and it will be fun to follow the results.

Since I am typically in the game only in the mornings (my time), I will probably not be participating. Cheers!
Click to expand...

You were one of the Geezers I was referring to, :D
yet we have not decided anything and hope is the last to die...
 
Nonno Calvy
I had come a doubt on the BoP yes or no and I checked out this morning.
It presents a problem, without the BoP the cars have very different returns. I have always tested on Trail Dragon 6 car, with only ABS, high cut penalties, no tuning, RH etc.
I did 3 to 5 laps for each car, so limited, but equivalent results between them.
Alfa 4c 1.47, 2; Atenza 1.48 2.5; Cayman 1.45, 3; GTR 1.47, 0; Bugatti 1.48, 0; Huracan 1.46, 3.
Other riders will have different results, but the laps I did were all clean and similar, perhaps not at the most possible but fast.
Since there are 3 seconds between the fastest and the slowest on that circuit, I can say that ballast or power reduction can be put into practice only if everyone will have the same car in the race night.
Greetings and Kisses :D
Click to expand...

We'll use "manual BoP", means : If you activate BoP every car will have its own percentage for power and weight to level them. We'll keep BoP deactivated but set these numbers manually. Thus we'll still have a field of cars with about the same performance. We'll be able though to reduce power for the top 5 cars from there on 👍.

PS
Thanks for the kisses :lol:.
 
What we have got to build upon :

The top 10 Gr.4 BoP test cars ( in alphabetical order to keep it as random as possible )

01 BMW M4
02 Bugatti Veyron
03 Citroen GT by Citroen
04 Dodge Viper
05 Ford Mustang
06 Hyundai Genesis
07 Lexus RC F
08 Mazda Atenza
09 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo
10 Nissan GT-R

The top 10 GTS safety test tracks ( in alphabetical order to keep it as random as possible )

01 Big Willow
02 Blue Moon
03 Dragon Trail
04 Interlagos
05 Lago Maggiore GP
06 Monza
07 Mount Panorama
08 Nürburgring GP
09 Suzuka
10 Yamagiwa

The top 10 QM Exiles drivers ( in alphabetical order to keep it as random as possible )

01 bone_tone
02 calveron
03 Digtater
04 EeePee
05 GT-MIC
06 Mwerte MP4-24
07 RocketJoe1-61
08 Sid_Neigh
09 StirlingMoose
10 zeitgeistmusic

We got a host, we got knowledge about racing rules, we got gentlemen-like behaviour, we got manually BoPped cars allowing for success power limiting for the top 5 drivers, we got driver-car-rotation between events ... we got a lot :) ! What have I forgot ?

What we need is ...

a time schedule, a substitute host, race day communication, a qualifying procedure ... and @kilesa4568 building a machine
for the track lottery :D ! What have I forgot ?

SIMPLER THE BETTER
 
Last edited:
Pardon the intrusion gents. I'm a Geezer, J.R..

I inject because of how things worked out.
Eric, Nord, host of Sundays racing, will be unavailable the next two weeks.

I, along with Steve, will be hosting that in his absence.
We are offering them as "beta" testing to your group.
I want to use any group 2,3 or 4 cars. Your choice. As are tires.
I saw no fuel consumption, ok. But how much tire wear ?

I want to use no boost, penalties on light - this week. Damage light, again, this week. We did this back in GT 4. Ballast and hp. But that was 4, and Cal did a lot of homework.

Like I said, a window is open to get the bugs out. Just let me know if you're interested or not. The room will be open either way

Cheers and thanks for hearing me out
 
oldphart
Pardon the intrusion gents. I'm a Geezer, J.R..

I inject because of how things worked out.
Eric, Nord, host of Sundays racing, will be unavailable the next two weeks.

I, along with Steve, will be hosting that in his absence.
We are offering them as "beta" testing to your group.
I want to use any group 2,3 or 4 cars. Your choice. As are tires.
I saw no fuel consumption, ok. But how much tire wear ?

I want to use no boost, penalties on light - this week. Damage light, again, this week. We did this back in GT 4. Ballast and hp. But that was 4, and Cal did a lot of homework.

Like I said, a window is open to get the bugs out. Just let me know if you're interested or not. The room will be open either way

Cheers and thanks for hearing me out
Click to expand...

We'll still have to do a test session with me as the host (plus a substitute) at some point to check for any connection issues but if you're happy to run this test session, I'm game.👍

The idea is to run Gr4 to best match the BTCC's power and the different drive trains on offer. Car's set manually to the current BoP so we can adjust the power for the top 5.

This is what I have in mind for the schedule and trying to limit everything to 2 hours:

The 1st 30 minutes set aside for qualifying with the race starting after the time's up. The idea was to limit it to 20 minutes so the first 10 minutes is bonus time. It should give people around 10 laps to set a time, traffic permitting.

All races set to 20 minute endurance on the same track.

1st race, fastest first.
2nd race, 1st race finishing order.*
3rd race, total reverse grid.*

*Needs to be set manually by the host

1st through 5th, success power cuts from 95-99% respectively. I'm sure 6th downwards will remind them repeatedly, "have you took your power off yet?":lol:

I'm going to find the tire wear level tonight. The races are sprints so no pit stops but I need to find a tire wear level where everyone has nicely worn tires for the last 2 or 3 laps. Obviously, it won't be exact based on all the different cars so I'll try and find the nearest level ground for them.

The track chosen (for all 3 races) is going to be random (looking at random.org) but as you'll be the host for this test session, whichever you want to use is fine with me. You can even change tracks for this, but ideally, stick to the grid orders. We'll run 3 races on one track when we can find a proper time slot that suits everyone.

As long as we all turn up with our car already set to BoP, we'll be able to start straight away. I'll make a list up tonight for reference.

The only real pain in the arse is the host needing to set the grid order for 2 races so if you're up for that, it sounds like a plan.:)
 
Testing the tire wear out tonight, I found that x5 gives you around 20 minutes or 12 laps for Interlagos. A safe race pace of low 1:40's. I chose there due to it being hard work for all 4 tires and I also turned to the dark side and picked up my DS4 for consistency's sake.

Without BoP, I ran the 4C as it's the lightest, the Veyron for being the heaviest and the Vantage for a middle ground. They all had heavy tire wear from around lap 9 but the picture is skewed somewhat by me forgetting to preset the cars... Already.:ouch: The 4C's delta between laps (around a second) being the smallest due to it's light weight while the Veyron had a 2 second spread due to it being...erm...big boned.:D

I'll need to rerun them with BoP turned on or set but I think'll it'll make the delta closer as the tire wear should move into a similar window between them. x4 tire wear was definitely too low and judging by x5, x6 will see the tires fall off a cliff much sooner then lap 9. If you want to test cars, use x5.
 
kilesa4568
Testing the tire wear out tonight, I found that x5 gives you around 20 minutes or 12 laps for Interlagos. A safe race pace of low 1:40's. I chose there due to it being hard work for all 4 tires and I also turned to the dark side and picked up my DS4 for consistency's sake.

Without BoP, I ran the 4C as it's the lightest, the Veyron for being the heaviest and the Vantage for a middle ground. They all had heavy tire wear from around lap 9 but the picture is skewed somewhat by me forgetting to preset the cars... Already.:ouch: The 4C's delta between laps (around a second) being the smallest due to it's light weight while the Veyron had a 2 second spread due to it being...erm...big boned.:D

I'll need to rerun them with BoP turned on or set but I think'll it'll make the delta closer as the tire wear should move into a similar window between them. x4 tire wear was definitely too low and judging by x5, x6 will see the tires fall off a cliff much sooner then lap 9. If you want to test cars, use x5.
Click to expand...
Did a bit of testing today, 12 laps at Interlagos with x5 tyre wear, BOP, No Tuning and ABS only. It wasn't overly easy for me to be consistant after my Mad Max stint but I generally found only about 1sec drop off in times with the cars I tested (Mustang, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda & Viper). Two of the cars were about .5 sec better than the others in outright pace, and one mid speed car had hardly any drop off at all (.5). One has got the worst gearbox ever which made it very difficult to stay consistant over the 12 laps. But their really wasn't that much difference between them all, they were all at about 139.0 to139.5 on their best lap. I didn't try for qualifying pace but more for consistant race pace. Looks like a pretty good platform to build on to me. 👍

Edit: And then there's the Citroen, this thing is severely OP on this track. My time on lap 12 (1:39.6) was close to my fastest with some of the other cars, and it was well into the 1:38's on it's best (lap 4).

Edit 2: M4 is almost as OP as the Citroen.

Hmmm, I'm starting to think one makes are the way to go. All using the same car, but varying the car per track. What do you guys think?
 
Last edited:
Good job 👍.

FPV MIC
... But their really wasn't that much difference between them all, they were all at about 139.0 to139.5 on their best lap. I didn't try for qualifying pace but more for consistant race pace. Looks like a pretty good platform to build on to me. ...
Click to expand...

That sounds good enough for me. Tbh I'd prefer the charme of an all different grid over true competitiveness, even if I get to drive the slowest car per track, which is well possible with my luck in lotteries :lol:. But that's me - I'll gladly accept any mode the majority calls for.

I'd also be generous if someone asked to use a certain car that is not on the list ( if it doesn't happen all the time ) -
however, that's up to Digtater imo ... being the QMTCC dictator :bowdown::lol:.
 
FPV MIC
Did a bit of testing today, 12 laps at Interlagos with x5 tyre wear, BOP, No Tuning and ABS only. It wasn't overly easy for me to be consistant after my Mad Max stint but I generally found only about 1sec drop off in times with the cars I tested (Mustang, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda & Viper). Two of the cars were about .5 sec better than the others in outright pace, and one mid speed car had hardly any drop off at all (.5). One has got the worst gearbox ever which made it very difficult to stay consistant over the 12 laps. But their really wasn't that much difference between them all, they were all at about 139.0 to139.5 on their best lap. I didn't try for qualifying pace but more for consistant race pace. Looks like a pretty good platform to build on to me. 👍

Edit: And then there's the Citroen, this thing is severely OP on this track. My time on lap 12 (1:39.6) was close to my fastest with some of the other cars, and it was well into the 1:38's on it's best (lap 4).

Edit 2: M4 is almost as OP as the Citroen.

Hmmm, I'm starting to think one makes are the way to go. All using the same car, but varying the car per track. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good delta if we ignore the Citroen and M4 and if those cars are used there, they'll probably both be hamstrung with big power cuts for the second race, with plenty of full power cars behind them.

What's worrying (or beneficial, depending on your point of view about them) though is they'll likely look after the tires a lot more and will come back into the race in the later stages. The full reversed grid should equal out the 3rd race.

If cars go in with a clear advantage based on a certain track, there'll surely be others it's not so well suited to? The only way of seeing if it'll work is testing them in races.

ROCKET JOE
I'd also be generous if someone asked to use a certain car that is not on the list
Click to expand...

That was the plan. If it's Gr4, you can pick it. Your top 10 list gives a head start on which are the quickest to choose from and the more mixed a grid we can get, the better, but I imagine more than one person will pick the same car.

How about me putting a list of everyone interested into a random list generator, then top to bottom makes the choosing order for cars? Everyone gets a car of their choosing, whether it's their 1st, 2nd or 3rd etc favourite, depending on what's left.
 
kilesa4568
That's a pretty good delta if we ignore the Citroen and M4 and if those cars are used there, they'll probably both be hamstrung with big power cuts for the second race, with plenty of full power cars behind them.

What's worrying (or beneficial, depending on your point of view about them) though is they'll likely look after the tires a lot more and will come back into the race in the later stages. The full reversed grid should equal out the 3rd race.

If cars go in with a clear advantage based on a certain track, there'll surely be others it's not so well suited to? The only way of seeing if it'll work is testing them in races.



That was the plan. If it's Gr4, you can pick it. Your top 10 list gives a head start on which are the quickest to choose from and the more mixed a grid we can get, the better, but I imagine more than one person will pick the same car.

How about me putting a list of everyone interested into a random list generator, then top to bottom makes the choosing order for cars? Everyone gets a car of their choosing, whether it's their 1st, 2nd or 3rd etc favourite, depending on what's left.
Click to expand...
Regarding the fastest, the 86 since it's most recent buff is one of the best Gr 4 cars on numerous circuits now, it was quick before the buff but now it's near on unstoppable :crazy:, and then the poor Mustang has never been shown any PD love :(. I've being trying to get a decent quallifying lap with the Mustang since day 1 (being a Ford guy) and the only track I've even been within cooee of the top times was on Monza. It's also the car with the horrible gear ratios and it plows like a dump truck, but I managed to get it into the high 1:38's today in a 12 lap run but burnt the tyres off it trying too hard and paid the price later. I really feel for the person that gets lumbered with it as it's not a fun race car. and I think maybe the Jag or the Chev could be better options. Could someone else give these three a go, because it might be that the Ford just doesn't suit my driving style.

I also tested the Veyron today and it was within the same tolerances as the others with the exception of slightly more drop of in lap times.

Another thing we'll have to be wary of is PD's changes to the BOP, but being more of a friendly based championship it should be okay.

Cooee - Wikipedia
 
@Mwerte Well done on that top 10 at Monza today. Saved the replay as I want to understand how to drive that big understeery fat bastid of a Veylron. Seem to have similar braking points but can't go faster than a Viper which is still a few seconds of the pace. I am using a DS4 with TC 2 & BB at 2. That might have something to do with my rotten pace.

EDIT: Turned off TC & was a second faster straight away, d'oh! For some reason I thought this was one of them nutcase cars without TC.
 
Last edited:
FPV MIC
Regarding the fastest, the 86 since it's most recent buff is one of the best Gr 4 cars on numerous circuits now, it was quick before the buff but now it's near on unstoppable :crazy:, and then the poor Mustang has never been shown any PD love :(. I've being trying to get a decent quallifying lap with the Mustang since day 1 (being a Ford guy) and the only track I've even been within cooee of the top times was on Monza. It's also the car with the horrible gear ratios and it plows like a dump truck, but I managed to get it into the high 1:38's today in a 12 lap run but burnt the tyres off it trying too hard and paid the price later. I really feel for the person that gets lumbered with it as it's not a fun race car. and I think maybe the Jag or the Chev could be better options. Could someone else give these three a go, because it might be that the Ford just doesn't suit my driving style.

I also tested the Veyron today and it was within the same tolerances as the others with the exception of slightly more drop of in lap times.

Another thing we'll have to be wary of is PD's changes to the BOP, but being more of a friendly based championship it should be okay.

Cooee - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

I think that test hits a note for everyone as we've all got cars we shy away from but it also shows the plan of these races that if you push too hard, you'll be on the ropes with tire wear by the end. If there's a change to BoP from PD, I think we have to stick with current levels and use the new BoP in the next season...if there is one.

If everyone's game, I think the testing can stop and we can finally do a test race? Oldphart didn't seem to like the plan of the test session in the Sunday races (hardly surprising) and I wouldn't want this to clash with it so how about Saturdays, along with a later time slot on Sunday as a fall back?

Car choice. RJ put a list up earlier of everyone interested:

ROCKET JOE
The top 10 QM Exiles drivers ( in alphabetical order to keep it as random as possible )

01 bone_tone
02 calveron
03 zeitgeistmusic
04 EeePee
05 GT-MIC
06 Mwerte MP4-24
07 RocketJoe1-61
08 Sid_Neigh
09 StirlingMoose
10 Digtater
Click to expand...

Top to bottom, choose your car* and your favourite track so we can pre-BoP the cars and have a track roster. I'll choose last as it doesn't matter which car I choose. I'm slow in all of them.:lol:

*Good thread here for reference: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/group-4-bop-testing.376422/
 
Rizla
@Mwerte Well done on that top 10 at Monza today. Saved the replay as I want to understand how to drive that big understeery fat bastid of a Veylron. Seem to have similar braking points but can't go faster than a Viper which is still a few seconds of the pace. I am using a DS4 with TC 2 & BB at 2. That might have something to do with my rotten pace.

EDIT: Turned off TC & was a second faster straight away, d'oh! For some reason I thought this was one of them nutcase cars without TC.
Click to expand...

For many years I have no experience with the controller but I think that with TC to 2 is impossible to make a decent time, maybe with the GR2 you can try to keep it to 1, I tried but I go worse with those. BB I don't know what it is.... :boggled:

My favorite track is Mount Panorama, but I always run with Megane, with other cars I do not know how I could go :nervous:. For the favorite car is the same, almost always run on cars decided by others. The best looks like they are Atenza, Mevo, Viper and Veyron. I would like an Italian car at this point, Ferrari and Lambo are rather slow as far as I know, the 4c do not know how to drive it well... I do not know but I say 4c :crazy:
:cheers:
 
Last edited:
Nonno Calvy
For many years I have no experience with the controller but I think that with TC to 2 is impossible to make a decent time, maybe with the GR2 you can try to keep it to 1, I tried but I go worse with those. BB I don't know what it is.... :boggled:

My favorite track is Mount Panorama, but I always run with Megane, with other cars I do not know how I could go :nervous:. For the favorite car is the same, almost always run on cars decided by others. The best looks like they are Atenza, Mevo, Viper and Veyron. I would like an Italian car at this point, Ferrari and Lambo are rather slow as far as I know, the 4c do not know how to drive it well... I do not know but I say 4c :crazy:
:cheers:
Click to expand...

Cheers for the adivce mate, much appreciated. :cheers:👍

Oh, BB is brake balance. 2 to the rear to help with turning into a corner in my case.
 

Similar threads

G
Where is the state of GT7 Tuning?
Replies
21
Views
8K
ToneDef
ToneDef
hawkeyez
Tune sharing really needs to be in GT7 and here’s why
Replies
9
Views
8K
hawkeyez
hawkeyez
Chris30
GTS Sport Mode (HELP)!...
Replies
6
Views
2K
Chris30
Chris30
TJC_69
TJC GAMING'S GTP GT7 CLEAN RACING EVENTS - NEXT EVENT TBA - SIGN UPS OPEN NOW!
Replies
0
Views
1K
TJC_69
TJC_69
Sonygamer455
The GT6 Save Editor Thread
11 12 13
Replies
389
Views
128K
Sonygamer455
Sonygamer455

Latest Posts

Back