QM Exiles

[Rizla]

On a different subject. As I've not been doing much racing lately, well, none actually, I've been wondering how to find the motivation to get back into it and had a thought. What about us lot in here having some sort of league racing?

As we've all got our own pace, with some a fair bit quicker than others, we could run something like the BTCC with success ballast and/or reverse grids. Tuned cars if possible too but I guess that would have to be there as we wouldn't be able to use the BoP with ballast. Maybe even signing up with 2 Gr4 car choices each that have to be alternated.

Any thoughts on it or am I chasing my tail?

Excellent idea, I'm up for it. I'm assuming our first bash at it will be an endurance race at Tsukuba?

 

[kilesa4568]

Excellent idea, I'm up for it.

I've been scratching my head trying to work out how to run it without the game's BoP so we can use ballast but still keep the cars relatively equal. I've barely looked at the car settings but with power and weight being two separate upgrade things, it might be possible to lock just the power and keep adjustable weight but it would have to be down to trust on winners adding the success ballast. I'll look into it some more.

I'm assuming our first bash at it will be an endurance race at Tsukuba?

If others want to run there, it's fine with me but if you hear any grinding noise over the mic, it'll be me gritting my teeth too hard.

 

[FPV MIC]

My five latest penalties :
- Slightly tapped the car ahead while braking for a corner without affecting our racing ... 10 sec
- Got slightly tapped on my rear / side from a car running a bit wide on corner exit without affecting our racing ... 10 sec
- A ( lagging ? ) ghost running through me without affecting my racing ... 10 sec
- An overambitious guy squeezing me wide and offtrack in a turn ... 2 sec
- The same guy brakechecking me 300 m later ... 10 sec

That happened within two races.
I don't complain about respect missing.
The last 10 races I did had about 75 percent of the grid with red dots .

Wow, that's ****. A bit of rubbing that doesn't affect anyone should never be a penalty, and certainly not 10 seconds.

Made me think of opening a thread "GTS Dick List Sorted By Flags - Post Your Videos Now !". Does that sound funny and helpful ?

Yeah, sounds like a great idea

I've been following Lewis' career since he first appeared and have been a huge fan ever since. Just like when Vettel appeared, you could tell there was a very special talent coming through.

I've always been an Ricciardo fan for pretty much the same reason, but being an Aussie that drinks champagne out of his own shoe doesn't hurt either and then there's also this

Excellent idea, I'm up for it. I'm assuming our first bash at it will be an endurance race at Tsukuba?

I've been scratching my head trying to work out how to run it without the game's BoP so we can use ballast but still keep the cars relatively equal. I've barely looked at the car settings but with power and weight being two separate upgrade things, it might be possible to lock just the power and keep adjustable weight but it would have to be down to trust on winners adding the success ballast. I'll look into it some more.

Great idea... and the settings for weight and power can be checked the same way as in GT6 (not that I don't trust anyone ). Once in the lobby section you go to the members list, then press triangle to scroll through the options. It brings up this...

 

[kilesa4568]

^^Perfect.👍👍

I've always been a fan of how the BTCC is set up and think it'll be good to use our own tweaked version of their system. It also saves me from trying to think of my own.

Key points are straight from the BTCC rules & regs: http://www.btcc.net/about/key-rules-and-regulations/

The points system is 20-17-15-13-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 for the top *15 finishers. (*Depending on entrants as 15 is very optimistic. We can use the same system with less people but the extra placings are there if more people join.)

Single bonus points are awarded for the fastest qualifier, fastest laps.

(I've taken out the bonus point for leading races as it'll simplify things.)

Race grids

• The grid for race one is decided during qualifying. (To mix things up, qualifying is limited to 5-10 laps but I'm unsure of how I can do that. Maybe record a time trial session and post it in here?)
• The grid for race two is based on the finishing order of race one
• A total reversed grid for race 3.

Success Ballast

Cars that are successful in the QMTCC () must carry ballast (additional weight) in their cars. Ballast is given to the top ten runners in the following allocations:

1st: 75kg, 2nd: 66kg 3rd: 57kg, 4th: 48kg, 5th: 39kg, 6th: 33kg, 7th: 27kg, 8th: 21kg, 9th: 15kg, 10th: 9kg

I think it would be better to simplify the BTCC rule so that everyone starts with stock weight then race by race, the ballast is added or taken away based on the last race. Finish 1st (and so on) in race 3 will see you carry weight into the next race, including qualifying with it.

I wouldn't mind throwing in the prime tire option for 1 race out of the 3 but it's up to you lot if you want to use it. I think it will mix things up nicely on some tracks but you'd have to specify which race you'd use it in before the day though. Prime will be RM with standard tire RH.

Race length 20-25 minutes or if it's a long track (around 2 minutes), 10-13 laps.

Penalties on mild or off. If something happens on track we're not happy about, we can review it afterwards. I know how competitive some of you are.

I also had the idea of using random car choices instead of hand picked. Each Gr4 has a number and we'll lottery the allocation so that every grid will have only one of each car. That way we can still use PD's BoP as it is now, along with the stock set up plus any success ballast. Not sure how we can do that but I think it'll be fun to only drive one car once for each group of 3 races. Kinda like shuffle racing over a season and it'll bring the 4WD's into it too.

I'll host it and while I'm on 152Mb broadband, if need be, I'll up it to 200Mb. Fingers crossed, that'll be quick enough for consistency with any far flung participants...looks at @FPV MIC

Any suggestions greatly received as the above is a very rough guide and I know there's quite a few kinks to work out. Make it a team effort so everyone's happy with how it's done.👍

 

[Mwerte]

^^Perfect.👍👍

I've always been a fan of how the BTCC is set up and think it'll be good to use our own tweaked version of their system. It also saves me from trying to think of my own.

Key points are straight from the BTCC rules & regs: http://www.btcc.net/about/key-rules-and-regulations/

The points system is 20-17-15-13-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 for the top *15 finishers. (*Depending on entrants as 15 is very optimistic. We can use the same system with less people but the extra placings are there if more people join.)

Single bonus points are awarded for the fastest qualifier, fastest laps.

(I've taken out the bonus point for leading races as it'll simplify things.)

Race grids

• The grid for race one is decided during qualifying. (To mix things up, qualifying is limited to 5-10 laps but I'm unsure of how I can do that. Maybe record a time trial session and post it in here?)
• The grid for race two is based on the finishing order of race one
• A total reversed grid for race 3.

Success Ballast

Cars that are successful in the QMTCC () must carry ballast (additional weight) in their cars. Ballast is given to the top ten runners in the following allocations:

1st: 75kg, 2nd: 66kg 3rd: 57kg, 4th: 48kg, 5th: 39kg, 6th: 33kg, 7th: 27kg, 8th: 21kg, 9th: 15kg, 10th: 9kg

I think it would be better to simplify the BTCC rule so that everyone starts with stock weight then race by race, the ballast is added or taken away based on the last race. Finish 1st (and so on) in race 3 will see you carry weight into the next race, including qualifying with it.

I wouldn't mind throwing in the prime tire option for 1 race out of the 3 but it's up to you lot if you want to use it. I think it will mix things up nicely on some tracks but you'd have to specify which race you'd use it in before the day though. Prime will be RM with standard tire RH.

Race length 20-25 minutes or if it's a long track (around 2 minutes), 10-13 laps.

Penalties on mild or off. If something happens on track we're not happy about, we can review it afterwards. I know how competitive some of you are.

I also had the idea of using random car choices instead of hand picked. Each Gr4 has a number and we'll lottery the allocation so that every grid will have only one of each car. That way we can still use PD's BoP as it is now, along with the stock set up plus any success ballast. Not sure how we can do that but I think it'll be fun to only drive one car once for each group of 3 races. Kinda like shuffle racing over a season and it'll bring the 4WD's into it too.

I'll host it and while I'm on 152Mb broadband, if need be, I'll up it to 200Mb. Fingers crossed, that'll be quick enough for consistency with any far flung participants...looks at @FPV MIC

Any suggestions greatly received as the above is a very rough guide and I know there's quite a few kinks to work out. Make it a team effort so everyone's happy with how it's done.👍

Nice idea......i had the same ideo but i did call it QMRC ( QM racing cup ) ...but i found out something that will not help.. PD can put any amount they want in fuel and tires consumption in daily race but the players in lobby can only choose x4 or x6 or x8 and it cant give you the control in strategy you want with a long race

 

[kilesa4568]

Ah, sorry mate. I didn't realise you'd tried to do one before. I must have missed your post on it.

How about running just enough laps to make fuel an issue? Maybe make it so a splash and dash is needed or leaning out the fuel so strategy can play a part? I know some of the pit lanes are a bit long too so on those races, how about adding a couple of extra laps so running ultra lean fuel isn't going to work?

Anything else you can think of?

 

[Nonno Calvy]

Exiles Championship.
I will have to work hard to translate your message well ...
Anyway, I propose you some hypotheses that involve a little work for the organizer:
we could choose 10 circuits, number them and the organizer draws lots in the evening of the race.
Group drawn by lot and valid for all three races, cars (if I understand you would like the same thing) numbered and drawn by lot for each race.
15/20 minutes of qualifying and then the races.
With the BdP set you can not change the weight but without it you can do it. We should trust each other. Otherwise no ballast, you can not.
The pit stop, with consumption set 6x / 9x, it becomes almost a requirement already in races of 7/10 laps and if they are longer also need 2 pit. But it leaves free to use less consumption strategies with power regulation

 

[Mwerte]

Ah, sorry mate. I didn't realise you'd tried to do one before. I must have missed your post on it.

How about running just enough laps to make fuel an issue? Maybe make it so a splash and dash is needed or leaning out the fuel so strategy can play a part? I know some of the pit lanes are a bit long too so on those races, how about adding a couple of extra laps so running ultra lean fuel isn't going to work?

Anything else you can think of?

Sorry i didnt post anything about it ...just an idea i was doing some testing in lobby alone testing differents setup but here what i did found ...
In gr4 : almost all cars has the same fuel capacity except the veyron. All cars can do 4 or 5 laps ( i choose alsace as track test because it have most of the corners uphill or downhill and most of the time you re full thruttle in it ) but the veyron give me 7 or 8 laps ..same thing happen in differents tracks ..so thr veyron with her speed and fuel capacity will have to run on engine 4 to do the distance and another car has to go engine 6 to do the same distance so already in one pit less as strategy the veyron is much better
I had to test for weeks just to find out this detail ....
So here a suggestion....we cant expect to wait while someone is making it alone ...we have to help
1- we have to know who is gonna participate ....i dont want to end up with a championship with alot of guests ..the geezers community are more than welcome i guess ( if we have many players who cant be there for every race.he will team up with another player who also cant be there all the time ... this way one will be there if the other is not )
2- we choose the numbers of tracks
3- we start all(drivers) testing in lobby for a day or two ...that allow us to find the best setup for the race like fuel and tires and everyone will have a mission ..find out the best balance ..if we test every day we can switch cars and make a fast decesion depending on the feedback of everyone...
4- make the qualy first then put a ballast for the ones how had a big marge on the others and we ll have Q1 and Q2 and Q3 ...for Q1 all racers go to the track ( if we manage to have 10 cars ) and try to put a good time ..the Q1 will have like 10min ...for the Q2 we take the top6 and again for another 5 or 7min depending on the track ..and the special Q3 will featured the top3 and one by one as in touring car championships ...the others will exit the track to watch the onboard and we ll start with the 3rd place in Q2 to go first once he start his fast lap ( top3 will have 2laps outlap and fast lap ) the 2sd will exit the pit to do hus outlap and than the 1st in Q2 ....and the qualy will be in the option tires choosed for the event )
4-A steward will be choose ( if he want of course ) and watch live or on replay the races but only if the racers doesnt agree on an incident ...he ll be the decider
5- we ll have 2 races by track a sprint one like the daily races C ( 7 or 9laps)...this way you ll have to choose to go fast and pit once or manage and try to make it without a pitstop and this way you ll have more infos to make a strategy for the long race
6- the event will take for a whole week ...monday to wednesday practice and testing on lobby to choose tires ( option and prime ) and numbers of laos depending on the best combination that allowed many strategies ......thrusday or friday qualy and sprint race if everyone is on....and weekend when everyone is online we do the main race
7- this my longuest post ever and just remember i m in a work meeting now

 

[kilesa4568]

Whoa! You've really been testing. Nice job!

If the races are 20 minutes or so, it should take any advantage the Veyron has off it with fuel but if it doesn't, maybe we could run with just tire wear turned on for a single pit stop instead? It'll give people 2-3 sets of very worn tires up to the pit stops and finish.

I want to make these races as user friendly as possible so even though I mentioned tuning, I don't think it's realistic for people to have a tune for whatever Gr4 they get each race meet. We're all pretty comfortable with stock set ups by now anyway.

The qualifying is something I want for the first race only, just to get the ball rolling. I figured if it's limited to a short 10 minute session, it won't be as much of a chore for the people who hate doing it (ME!) and the quicker drivers should still be able to put in a representative lap for their skill. If we set the grid for quickest driver in the first race through lobby options, we could always stagger our qualifying start by 30 seconds or so. If anyone makes a mistake on their hot lap, it's up to them to try and salvage their lap time. It'll give you the choice of a high risk qualifying lap or going for a safer lap. It might add a bit of drama to it and even if there's a full grid, it should still only take 10-15 minutes to set the grid.

If we ran with as many qualifying sessions as you thought about, I'd have nothing left for racing... I'm being kinda selfish but ideally I need the whole session, including races, to total about 2 hours. A short warm up of about 10 minutes, 15 minutes for qualifying and then three 20 minute races on that week's track. I'm sure we could all do with a few minutes chilling between each, which should take it up to a couple of hours total.

I think the day the races happen needs to be flexible to allow as many people to turn up as possible but it's a great idea to have a substitute if someone can't make it. Just make sure they're running with whatever ballast they're supposed to and using the persons car that they're substituting.👍

Just so I know if this is worth carrying on being worked on, can people say for sure whether they're interested or not?

 

[StirlingMoose]

I'm definitely interested. My availability might be a bit sporadic though.

 

[coryclifford]

I'm definitely interested. My availability might be a bit sporadic though.

Same for me. And my hours at work are goofy. But it'd be fun to see you guys again.

 

[bone_tone]

I'm interested, would love to join in when I can!

 

[Mwerte]

Will you look at that

 

[Mwerte]

It seem that we have less players than we expected so ....alternative solution...if we have like 4 or 6 racers ...lets make a championship for every category : gr3 gr4 gr2 gr1 grB and gr3 road car grX... and have like 5 tracks for the all event monza brands nurbu alsace .....

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Hey all, back from a short trip with my kids - I've quickly read through the last page now.
A BTCC like competition seems to be a good idea ( though I've never followed that series ), and I'd sure like to join if we can find a fitting time slot.
I'm not sure whether 'keeping it flexible' is the best way, however, it might get too hard to find a slot to include everyone ( @FPV MIC, @coryclifford ) with some continuity. I hope it's possible though, would be great to meet you guys on track.
Anyway, in case @kilesa4568 ( good job 👍 ) is already trying to schedule it, for me it's either Monday, Thursday or Sunday, about 8 - 11 pm CEST.
Not enough participants ? What about contacting people from our friends lists ?

@Mwerte
Really nice video, great to watch them fight ... did anyone get a drive through penalty ?

 

[kilesa4568]

Exiles Championship.
I will have to work hard to translate your message well ...
Anyway, I propose you some hypotheses that involve a little work for the organizer:
we could choose 10 circuits, number them and the organizer draws lots in the evening of the race.
Group drawn by lot and valid for all three races, cars (if I understand you would like the same thing) numbered and drawn by lot for each race.
15/20 minutes of qualifying and then the races.
With the BdP set you can not change the weight but without it you can do it. We should trust each other. Otherwise no ballast, you can not.
The pit stop, with consumption set 6x / 9x, it becomes almost a requirement already in races of 7/10 laps and if they are longer also need 2 pit. But it leaves free to use less consumption strategies with power regulation

I'm fine with everyone picking their favourite track for the roster so if we can get 10 or more people involved, we can pre-plan where we'll run but we won't know where until the day of the race. I'll make a random numbered list on the PC and one of you can pick from it. Obviously, you don't get to see the list so hopefully you'll trust me to stick to it.

The car choice sounded good as a lottery but I'm really not sure how to do it... How about picking 10 cars each and coordinate them so that there's only one of each on the grid for each race? You'll know the car before the day but you won't know which track it'll be used on till the day.

I really want to keep the success ballast in so if we have to rely on trust, we can but we'd also have to set the power based on the current BoP. Is it possible to lock the car's tune though?

If we go with races long enough to have strategy play a part, what do you think to 20 minute endurance races? There's a possibility of needing to squeeze out one last lap that way. A pit stop will be mandatory so there'll be no hiding from long pit lanes.

Regarding the possibility of people not being able to turn up, you could use Reda's suggestion of a stand in (make sure they're clean and no ringers!) or another option is dropped scores for a couple of bad races. If you can't make the race or just have bad day on track, use one of your get out of jail free cards. We could use an aggregate score for everyone over 8 race meets at the end.

Opening up friends lists is a good idea. See if anyone is interested.👍

 

[ROCKET JOE]

I'm fine with everyone picking their favourite track for the roster so if we can get 10 or more people involved, we can pre-plan where we'll run but we won't know where until the day of the race. I'll make a random numbered list on the PC and one of you can pick from it. Obviously, you don't get to see the list so hopefully you'll trust me to stick to it.

The car choice sounded good as a lottery but I'm really not sure how to do it... How about picking 10 cars each and coordinate them so that there's only one of each on the grid for each race? You'll know the car before the day but you won't know which track it'll be used on till the day.

I really want to keep the success ballast in so if we have to rely on trust, we can but we'd also have to set the power based on the current BoP. Is it possible to lock the car's tune though?

If we go with races long enough to have strategy play a part, what do you think to 20 minute endurance races? There's a possibility of needing to squeeze out one last lap that way. A pit stop will be mandatory so there'll be no hiding from long pit lanes.

Regarding the possibility of people not being able to turn up, you could use Reda's suggestion of a stand in (make sure they're clean and no ringers!) or another option is dropped scores for a couple of bad races. If you can't make the race or just have bad day on track, use one of your get out of jail free cards. We could use an aggregate score for everyone over 8 race meets at the end.

Opening up friends lists is a good idea. See if anyone is interested.👍

As for the car choice :
There's this Gr.4 BoP test thread and we could take the top 16 cars as our numbered list.
Take the numbered drivers list and synchronize them. From there on you could just rotate one of the lists ...
e. g. race 1 : driver 1 car 1 - driver 2 car 2 ... / race 2 : driver 1 car 2 - driver 2 car 3 ...
We'd know from the beginning when to use what car which is also great for having our liveries ready .

 

[kilesa4568]

That'll do it.👍

The lottery sounded fun with the chance of less competitive cars as well as the quick ones but it's too complicated to work out.

We just need more people now...

 

[FPV MIC]

I would have replied earlier but I've been away at Tailem Bend for the first race meet at our brand spanking new race track (The Bend) here in Sth. Oz. All 7+ KM's of it .

I'm interested but I fear the time zone difference could be too great. RJ's time of 8pm CEST is 3.30 AM here and while I'm keen, I'm not that keen.

 

[Nonno Calvy]

First you have to define all the Rules after look for persons. Correct time for FPV and Usa friends should be afternoon 14/15 .

 

[Nonno Calvy]

+ 7.30 from italy

 

[kilesa4568]

I'm interested but I fear the time zone difference could be too great. RJ's time of 8pm CEST is 3.30 AM here and while I'm keen, I'm not that keen.

Being so far in front of the rest of us is problematic... Can't you emigrate to somewhere with a normal timezone?

First you have to define all the Rules after look for persons.

To be honest with you, the only set regulations so far is success ballast and Gr4 cars. Looking at me organising this idea, I'd struggle to run a piss up in a brewery.

I've over complicated the car and track choice and really don't know how to simplify it. Carrying ballast from one car and adding it to the next race's car isn't going to work if it's put on one of the slower cars. It's a non starter.

Probably better to scrap that idea, give people a chance to choose their own cars and then hope the ballast (possibly increased amounts) mixes things up. I'm even thinking of a U turn on the pit stops and making it a 20 minute race for whichever track's we decide on but I've got a feeling that people might find that boring.

My head hurts.

 

[Nonno Calvy]

Good morning, yesterday evening I was too sleepy to try to write. I took a look at the room settings. It is possible to vary the weigh and/or power even putting prohibited tune.
The Group 4 cars are about 25 and, to simplify, the organizer could choose 10 cars by pulling them out of sorts. At this point you have to decide if everyone uses the same car in each race/evening or if everyone can choose one to their liking for each race or for all three.
The tracks should be equal to the championship races (10 races 10 runs) or not (5 races 10 tracks) and anyway drawn by chance the evening of the race.
The duration can be timed or lapsed, 20 minutes per race seem correct.
With the fuel consumption multiplier and tires you can set all the stops to the boxes you want, it goes from 1x to 10x. Consumption depends on the type of rubber choice H/M/S, with multiplier between 6/9x you stop after 4/7 laps depending on the tire.
The first league should have simple rules to try. 1 run week for 4 weeks, for example. Then it can be varied with experience.
The ballast can be applied according to your scheme and with mutual trust, which certainly does not fail.

 

[Nonno Calvy]

For the time your problems are different from mine, I have no major work commitments. On Saturday afternoon I am busy with Gezzer's and Sunday afternoons when playing my soccer team or there is the F1 or Moto GP

 

[ROCKET JOE]

If everyone interested would post his time zone and the times possible for them, I'd try to make a little chart for an overview.

@FPV MIC
Move over here - we have interesting race tracks too !

 

[Nonno Calvy]

Roma and Berlin 11.00 am ; London and Casablanca - 1; New York - 6 ; FPV + 7,5

 

[Nonno Calvy]

finding the day and time is the hardest thing

 

[Nonno Calvy]

your time from 8pm to 11pm can be ok for europe and america est time but not for australia.

 

[bone_tone]

If everyone interested would post his time zone and the times possible for them, I'd try to make a little chart for an overview.

@FPV MIC
Move over here - we have interesting race tracks too !

BST (GMT +1) for me

 

[Nonno Calvy]

however I think you can find at least 10 participants, I too have a friend interested.
It occurred to me that to balance the races a little (there are rockets in the group) you could lighten, after the qualifying, the drivers' cars slower .... from 5 tenths to 1 second 10 Kg. from 1 second to 1.5 20 kg. etc. etc