Sony Reveals PlayStation 5 Console

[redhed17]

Can't help feeling it is worth holding out a little longer for an all-black edition, this render looks amazing:


Plus someone did a mockup of a PS2 25th Anniversary Edition (Which would mean a 2025 launch... but I doubt I will wait THAT long)


But then again, dbrand is providing PS5 skins if that is more your thing

I like the all black, but not with the blue PS5 on the side. Don't know why, but I felt that was a let down.

 

[Robin]

While PlayStation won't yet be drawn on how much the PlayStation 5 will cost, CEO Jim Ryan says the company is emphasising "value as opposed to price".

Code for "It ain't gonna be cheap!"

 

[DriveSpark]

Several people on reddit noticed German and French Amazon have or had pages up for the disc version at EUR 499, sold and fulfilled by amazon (rather than a random 3rd party). Sounds about right to me, digital one 400-450 you'd guess.

Could still be a placeholder though, price now removed but the page is still there

https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B07SDFL84P/

 

[imported_rik19]

Prices of old systems....

 

[FT-1]

I really don't think we will see a sub-£500 unit at launch. Personally, I'm using OnePlus phones as a benchmark; The latest phone line (OnePlus 8 Series) starts from £599, while the first iteration cost around £249-£299 back in 2014.

A 100% increase of the PS4 launch price (£349) suggests the PS5 would cost around £699 (with Blu-Ray drive) within its launch window.

 

[DriveSpark]

£700 isn't going to happen, not a chance.

BOM estimates have come in around $470-480., obviously there will be other costs too and Sony will sell for a bit of a loss, I still don't think it'll go over £550 max, maybe £599 at the very outside.

 

[Jtheripper]

There's a trademark from Ms for series x and a pic of a much smaller console on n4g, all white. Looks so small must be a lot weaker it seems than their top console. A cube just bigger than their controller.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

There's a trademark from Ms for series x and a pic of a much smaller console on n4g, all white. Looks so small must be a lot weaker it seems than their top console. A cube just bigger than their controller.

That's an old speculation mock up, been floating around since they showed the SX.

 

[Jtheripper]

That's an old speculation mock up, been floating around since they showed the SX.

Oh i see, well it just showed up on n4g as if new, i don't know.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Code for "It ain't gonna be cheap!"

Preparing the excuses already. Make it expensive then justify the cost with remake of GTAV and a Spiderman expansion.

Price wise, PS4 Pro is still holding steady at the £320-£350 Mark generally. Vs the Xbox One X which has just gone to £259. So I speculate price wise we will see this:

PS5 will be 499 € and £ and $549.
Discless version coming in 50 less.

Xbox will be 399 € and £ and $449 again any digital version 50 off.

With the XBX dropping price the way it is, almost feels like they are freeing up that price point ready for launch, while also clearing up stock. Sony haven't done that, yet.

Never forget thay Microsoft are always ready to make a small loss to gain the market share. They know they'll recoup elsewhere, they did this with the Xbox 360, and while Sony did as well, their console was almost double the price so they kind of had to.

 

[DriveSpark]

I don't see how the Xbox will be that cheap when they have additional hardware cost over the playstation, at 400 you could easily be talking a 200 loss per unit.

Even if your theory is correct, it leaves no space for the digital only xbox, which is surely coming given their alleged focus on services.

 

[MrCrynox]

Don't you believe it, I think MS are willing to go toe to toe if not better. Let's look at how much money they've been spending/losing since being on the back foot during the last few years, losing money on the XB1X, buying all those studios, givng amazing deals on Ultimate Game Pass etc etc. They have the most capable hardware & are on a mission to regain top position, seemingly willing to lose a lot of money to get there.

Will it be enough ? Probably not due to that huge PS install base but I'm sure it's going to be a lot closer this time round. This is going to be great.

 

[TJ13]

Before I go into details on what I think the price is,
Is there an all digital XSX?

If there is no digital only XSX then I will list my theory.

XSX would come in at $499
PS5 would come in at the same.
PS5 digital would go into $450
Undercutting the XSX

I have seen some 599 PS5 rumors and one even said 699. (Which I would say nope that's a PS3 disaster)

 

[DriveSpark]

There isn't a digital XSX, but its long been a rumour they will have a digital only version, some suggest this will run a lesser hardware spec too. Google lockhart, which is alleged to be the project name. Nothing confirmed on this though.

I'd agree both full fat machines will be around the 500 mark -/+ 50.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I don't see how the Xbox will be that cheap when they have additional hardware cost over the playstation, at 400 you could easily be talking a 200 loss per unit.

Even if your theory is correct, it leaves no space for the digital only xbox, which is surely coming given their alleged focus on services.

I can easily see them doing that. And it'll be a very confident announcement alongside the Microsoft game studios show in July, knowing full well Sony won't be able to match them. They did it with the Xbox 360, and compared to the PS3 they dominated, only losing out to the Wii in sales. They dropped the ball with the Xbox One and paid the price, they will not make that mistake again, not by any stretch of the imagination.

But, the catch will be, it will be a vanilla bundle. Console and controller, 1 month game pass and thats it. PS5 will likely come with a game (I think that's already been confirmed), 3 months PS plus and a basic headset.

Meaning by the time you get a bundle, which there will be, I mean let's assume Forza Motorsport 8 will be a launch title, the console will then creep closer to my expected PS5 pricing, Once a game has been added in. But that perception of a much cheaper console will be a huge draw for the majority of savvy buyers.

 

[DriveSpark]

hmm, why would MS be able to afford to make $200-300 loss per console and Sony not?

With a smaller userbase they'd need to make more money out of every punter than playstation would, so on average they'll need to sell 6-8 games to every owner, instead of 3-4 or have to increase xbox gold / gamepass prices to compensate. Sure, either of them can cut their nose off to spite their face and loose $400 per console, but as a whole Xbox or Playstation need to make a profit for the companies.

If I recall PS3 eventually outsold Xbox360, even with people re-buying thanks to RROD, granted maybe not at release.

I don't think that Sony are a shoe-in to dominate as they did with the PS4, but I don't see MS being able to significantly undercut Sony and keep their service costs low and make good on their investments in the studios and then make some profit over the next 5 years. Something has got to give.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, given MS have been quite bold in announcing the Series X thus far I think they will probably release pricing first.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

hmm, why would MS be able to afford to make $200-300 loss per console and Sony not?

With a smaller userbase they'd need to make more money out of every punter than playstation would, so on average they'll need to sell 6-8 games to every owner, instead of 3-4 or have to increase xbox gold / gamepass prices to compensate. Sure, either of them can cut their nose off to spite their face and loose $400 per console, but as a whole Xbox or Playstation need to make a profit for the companies.

If I recall PS3 eventually outsold Xbox360, even with people re-buying thanks to RROD, granted maybe not at release.

I don't think that Sony are a shoe-in to dominate as they did with the PS4, but I don't see MS being able to significantly undercut Sony and keep their service costs low and make good on their investments in the studios and then make some profit over the next 5 years. Something has got to give.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, given MS have been quite bold in announcing the Series X thus far I think they will probably release pricing first.

Because Microsoft as a business is MASSIVE compared to.. well most companies.

They can afford to undercut anyone they want, if they want, by how much they want & it wouldn't make the slightest little dent into the amount of profit they just made in the time it took to write this sentence.

 

[Daz555]

Because Microsoft as a business is MASSIVE compared to.. well most companies.

MS business units have to stand alone to a large extent. The top brass running O365 or Azure are not putting their hands in their pockets for the Xbox division.

 

[MagpieRacer]

hmm, why would MS be able to afford to make $200-300 loss per console and Sony not?

With a smaller userbase they'd need to make more money out of every punter than playstation would, so on average they'll need to sell 6-8 games to every owner, instead of 3-4 or have to increase xbox gold / gamepass prices to compensate. Sure, either of them can cut their nose off to spite their face and loose $400 per console, but as a whole Xbox or Playstation need to make a profit for the companies.

If I recall PS3 eventually outsold Xbox360, even with people re-buying thanks to RROD, granted maybe not at release.

I don't think that Sony are a shoe-in to dominate as they did with the PS4, but I don't see MS being able to significantly undercut Sony and keep their service costs low and make good on their investments in the studios and then make some profit over the next 5 years. Something has got to give.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, given MS have been quite bold in announcing the Series X thus far I think they will probably release pricing first.

The PS3 eventually outsold it on a head to head basis. The 360 still sold more outright, right up until the end, i think the PS3 only overtook by 3 million or so thanks to numerous, vastly cheaper slim versions.

Sony probably could make losses per console, and probably will, however they will struggle to make a bigger loss to be competitive and attractive price wise whereas Microsoft will be able to absorb a bigger loss easier, Sony have struggled recently, and while there have been signs of recovery, making heavy losses on a console just to price competitively won't be on their radar.

 

[DriveSpark]

Hmmm I'm not sure on this "MS can take more loss because they are a bigger company" thing. Xbox has to turn a profit, unless we're saying that the rest of MS is going to fund Xbox as a loss making business perpetually ? I doubt that very much, like any business they abandon market sectors where they can't make money - mobile for instance.

Otherwise, why not sell Xbox for $200 and make gamepass $5 a year ?

 

[Mr Grumpy]

MS business units have to stand alone to a large extent. The top brass running O365 or Azure are not putting their hands in their pockets for the Xbox division.

Oh yeah, I understand that but Xbox aren't going to not make profit with everything they got going on or planned.

They'll follow the RRP then take a bit off & probably choose to not make as much as they could but it'll still be a tidy profit.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Hmmm I'm not sure on this "MS can take more loss because they are a bigger company" thing. Xbox has to turn a profit, unless we're saying that the rest of MS is going to fund Xbox as a loss making business perpetually ? I doubt that very much, like any business they abandon market sectors where they can't make money - mobile for instance.

Otherwise, why not sell Xbox for $200 and make gamepass $5 a year ?

You're missing the point. Xbox 360 lost $125 per console at launch, PS3, despite its high price made a $240 loss per console and it nearly crippled them. Microsoft could be kpre reserved as they will have known the PS3 cost will have been high due to the technology like blu ray etc.

Games are where the money is made, through licensing to sell on platforms etc all the boring stuff. Phil Spencer (Xbox gaming VP) has gone on record in the past to say quite openly that the hardware is not the money maker, the money making is in the game selling. And this was around the Xbox One X launch. The manufacturers have always been very open about the fact that the hardware makes losses, especially early on. The fight is how much loss can you afford to be competitive and take a bigger risk for more market share.

My point is, Sony will be less likely to take a bigger hit per console again, whereas Microsoft can, they aren't in financial hardship, Sony have been. Microsoft will likely have a stronger exclusive launch lineup (i know this is speculative but the Sony show was hardly exciting from a console launch perspective). And if that's where the moneybis and they have the confidence in the gears, halo, forza franchises, plus being the lead console for Assassin's Creed Valhalla after the critical success of Odyssey plus 2 year wait, there will be a big driving force behind that game too.

This is of course all theory but it feels like we've been here before, only this time Microsoft don't want to repeat the absolute horror show of the Xbox One launch.

Current install base and console ownership also doesn't mean too much. Look at the PS2 vs OG xbox. If we based it on that ths PS3 should have walked all over the 360, but it didn't because the 360 was a far more attractive proposition and they stole the market share.

 

[Daz555]

Current install base and console ownership also doesn't mean too much. Look at the PS2 vs OG xbox. If we based it on that ths PS3 should have walked all over the 360, but it didn't because the 360 was a far more attractive proposition and they stole the market share.

Sony had an ugly launch for PS3 and it cost them early on. By the end of the generation however, they had overtaken 360 and took that momentum into PS4.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Sony had an ugly launch for PS3 and it cost them early on. By the end of the generation however, they had overtaken 360 and took that momentum into PS4.

Yeah I know that I stated it in a previous post. It outsold the 360 by 3 million towards the end. But launches are critical, how much further ahead would the PS3 have been if it was priced competitively to the 360 at launch? They lost a lot of traction early on. Exactly the same with Microsoft and the Xbox One against the PS4.

PS4 has sold around 65 million more consoles than the Xbox One. Huge difference, but the Xbox One X outsold the PS4 pro in most regions.

 

[MrCrynox]

Because Microsoft as a business is MASSIVE compared to.. well most companies.

They can afford to undercut anyone they want, if they want, by how much they want & it wouldn't make the slightest little dent into the amount of profit they just made in the time it took to write this sentence.

This.

 

[DriveSpark]

You're missing the point. Xbox 360 lost $125 per console at launch, PS3, despite its high price made a $240 loss per console and it nearly crippled them. Microsoft could be kpre reserved as they will have known the PS3 cost will have been high due to the technology like blu ray etc.

Games are where the money is made, through licensing to sell on platforms etc all the boring stuff. Phil Spencer (Xbox gaming VP) has gone on record in the past to say quite openly that the hardware is not the money maker, the money making is in the game selling. And this was around the Xbox One X launch. The manufacturers have always been very open about the fact that the hardware makes losses, especially early on. The fight is how much loss can you afford to be competitive and take a bigger risk for more market share.

My point is, Sony will be less likely to take a bigger hit per console again, whereas Microsoft can, they aren't in financial hardship, Sony have been. Microsoft will likely have a stronger exclusive launch lineup (i know this is speculative but the Sony show was hardly exciting from a console launch perspective). And if that's where the moneybis and they have the confidence in the gears, halo, forza franchises, plus being the lead console for Assassin's Creed Valhalla after the critical success of Odyssey plus 2 year wait, there will be a big driving force behind that game too.

This is of course all theory but it feels like we've been here before, only this time Microsoft don't want to repeat the absolute horror show of the Xbox One launch.

Current install base and console ownership also doesn't mean too much. Look at the PS2 vs OG xbox. If we based it on that ths PS3 should have walked all over the 360, but it didn't because the 360 was a far more attractive proposition and they stole the market share.

I haven't missed the point - sure MS have more money, they could give away the hardware if they wanted. However MS aren't in the console industry for ***** and giggles, they want to make a profit and as its been for a long time that comes from the games or services.

Your theory is that they will significantly undercut Sony, taking a bigger loss per unit sold. Lets say they lose $250 per console, lets say that means they need to sell (say) 10 games on the system to break even, or equivalent in gamepass vouchers. If they sell for $100 loss its only 4 games. Also, if you make less of a loss on each unit as components get cheaper you reduce your losses, so you get to break even sooner. Take a big loss at launch and you're still taking a loss 2/3 years later that you need to recoup. Market share doesn't necessarily help either, that just means you've more $250 units to make money back on. Its not impossible but you're taking larger risks..

I'm not at all sure that Xbox has a stronger launch line up - it seems their first unveil event wasn't that well received and I think the forcing of cross gen for a couple of years means that there is less of an incentive to upgrade - if you can play the same game on your OneX as SeriesX in 4K and both look pretty why drop $400+ on the new one ? being able to play what your mate plays is an incentive to upgrade (maybe begrudingly!).

Both have more to show us in terms of games of course, but I wouldn't say Valhalla is going to be a strong point, its coming to every platform so you'd have to cope with lowest common denominator..

As I said before I don't think Sony are a shoe-in to repeat the success of the PS4, nor do I think MS will cut their nose off to spite their face. I guess we'll need to look back from the next-next gen to see how all this panned out. Gut feel is that its going to be more balanced this time round.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I haven't missed the point - sure MS have more money, they could give away the hardware if they wanted. However MS aren't in the console industry for ***** and giggles, they want to make a profit and as its been for a long time that comes from the games or services.

Your theory is that they will significantly undercut Sony, taking a bigger loss per unit sold. Lets say they lose $250 per console, lets say that means they need to sell (say) 10 games on the system to break even, or equivalent in gamepass vouchers. If they sell for $100 loss its only 4 games. Also, if you make less of a loss on each unit as components get cheaper you reduce your losses, so you get to break even sooner. Take a big loss at launch and you're still taking a loss 2/3 years later that you need to recoup. Market share doesn't necessarily help either, that just means you've more $250 units to make money back on. Its not impossible but you're taking larger risks..

I'm not at all sure that Xbox has a stronger launch line up - it seems their first unveil event wasn't that well received and I think the forcing of cross gen for a couple of years means that there is less of an incentive to upgrade - if you can play the same game on your OneX as SeriesX in 4K and both look pretty why drop $400+ on the new one ? being able to play what your mate plays is an incentive to upgrade (maybe begrudingly!).

Both have more to show us in terms of games of course, but I wouldn't say Valhalla is going to be a strong point, its coming to every platform so you'd have to cope with lowest common denominator..

As I said before I don't think Sony are a shoe-in to repeat the success of the PS4, nor do I think MS will cut their nose off to spite their face. I guess we'll need to look back from the next-next gen to see how all this panned out. Gut feel is that its going to be more balanced this time round.

I mean, I'm basing this off simple and accessible facts. But we will see. Microsoft have been doing this for years and only dropped the ball with a shoddy Xbox One build up and launch. Theyre not in it for what you described, but they are in it to take the majority market, and the consoles from both companies, WILL lose money whether you choose to accept or agree with that. The margin is up to the respective companies, and Microsofts margin, WILL be bigger. Especially, as I said, if they have a strong launch line up, particularly first party.

As for the launch line up, we can only guess at Microsofts one, as they haven't done their first party Microsoft game studios event yet its all pure speculation, what they showed last month was all 3rd party. Sony showed us some of everything, but with very few seemingly launching holiday 2020 with the console. Yes Valhalla is coming to all consoles, but the Xbox is the lead promotion platform so far, best on Xbox is a tagline that will sell consoles to those less savvy than us, parents buying for kids, newcomers etc.

I'm not going to claim or force this as fact, simply justifying why I think the consoles will be priced how I think they'll be priced, and the driving forces behind those decisions.

 

[DriveSpark]

Of course both companies will make a loss on hardware, its pretty much always been that way.

I'm pretty confused by this statement though:

You're missing the point. Xbox 360 lost $125 per console at launch, PS3, despite its high price made a $240 loss per console and it nearly crippled them. Microsoft could be kpre reserved as they will have known the PS3 cost will have been high due to the technology like blu ray etc.

Games are where the money is made, through licensing to sell on platforms etc all the boring stuff. Phil Spencer (Xbox gaming VP) has gone on record in the past to say quite openly that the hardware is not the money maker, the money making is in the game selling. And this was around the Xbox One X launch. The manufacturers have always been very open about the fact that the hardware makes losses, especially early on. The fight is how much loss can you afford to be competitive and take a bigger risk for more market share.

My point is, Sony will be less likely to take a bigger hit per console again, whereas Microsoft can, they aren't in financial hardship, Sony have been. Microsoft will likely have a stronger exclusive launch lineup (i know this is speculative but the Sony show was hardly exciting from a console launch perspective). And if that's where the moneybis and they have the confidence in the gears, halo, forza franchises, plus being the lead console for Assassin's Creed Valhalla after the critical success of Odyssey plus 2 year wait, there will be a big driving force behind that game too.

This is of course all theory but it feels like we've been here before, only this time Microsoft don't want to repeat the absolute horror show of the Xbox One launch.

Current install base and console ownership also doesn't mean too much. Look at the PS2 vs OG xbox. If we based it on that ths PS3 should have walked all over the 360, but it didn't because the 360 was a far more attractive proposition and they stole the market share.

Microsoft... Theyre not in it for what you described, but they are in it to take the majority market

So they don't want to make a profit, but just want (say) 75% market share of the console market and doesn't matter how much it costs them ?

Find that very hard to believe. Companies generally like to make money.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Of course both companies will make a loss on hardware, its pretty much always been that way.

I'm pretty confused by this statement though:




So they don't want to make a profit, but just want (say) 75% market share of the console market and doesn't matter how much it costs them ?

Find that very hard to believe. Companies generally like to make money.

Yeah. And as we've established, both companies will make losses on the hardware. So where do you think the profit is coming from? The games, the services etc. Which I have also explained in my reasoning.

 

[inCloud]

XSX launch title will be Halo Infinite, while biggest title on PS5 at start will be Spider-Man standalone add-on, so yeah, XSX launch lineup will be stronger. Forza 8 and GT7, most likely come next year, same with Horizon 2 and Fable.