That's it. I'm now officially done with GT7

[Famine]

I tell you what, I'm very glad it's official now. This whole ad hoc thing that was going on had me very uncomfortable, so it's great it's all signed, notarised, and sealed.

For all I know 150 staff are working on Gran Turismo Powerboat.

I know you're joking, but on one hand, I would pay very good money for such a thing.

😏

Polyphony Digital to Reveal Speedboat Simulator at E3?

After four wheels and two, rumour has it that Polyphony are shifting their attention to none with an offshore powerboat racing simulator... ... April Fool!

www.gtplanet.net

 

[Matt atkins]

PS4 sales for major AAA titles have pretty much dried up. But Sony will support base GT7 on PS4 for as long as they support base GT7 on PS5. This is going to be a VERY long gen.

Diversification may come if we get GT7 2.0 or PSVR2 support. Although the messaging will have to be very clear to avoid confusion. Throw PC into the mix and the potential for F2P GT(7) through PS+. And it’s difficult to pinpoint Sony & PD’s direction.

I suspect we’ll know more before the years out.

Yes I hope so just got the new ps5 delivered yesterday

 

[chzsln485]

30 minutes into our last Gr3 GT7 endurance championship and the hosts game crashes, dumping us all out. It's too late to restart the race and no-one wanted to anyway. The admin red flagged the race and ended the series. It's been beset by lag, jitter, game crashes, blue screens and player initialisation bugs. Each race invariably took 30 mins or more to actually get going.

It's been by far the most pathetic "gaming" experience I can remember. I wish I had attempted the refund when others did.

All other communities i'm in still race on GTS so there is simply no point in being part of
this scam any longer.

Goodbye Gran-Turd 7 hello F1 2022, GTS and (god help us) AC2 when it comes out. From the deepest depths of my heart I hope the FIA screw PD royally.

[Much] L8ers

The idea of abandoning GT7 in favour of F1 22, on the basis that the latter is free of bugs, is truly hilarious.

 

[FoxMulder]

The idea of abandoning GT7 in favour of F1 22, on the basis that the latter is free of bugs, is truly hilarious.

F1 22 is the first one I’ve skipped since f1 2010 came out. It’s got EA crap in it and buggy even though they’re a few releases deep into this generation. It’s a yearly title and will get a couple patches at most before they bail on it for the next one.

GT7 has issues that I hate, but it’ll be supported for a few years.

 

[Matt atkins]

F1 22 is the first one I’ve skipped since f1 2010 came out. It’s got EA crap in it and buggy even though they’re a few releases deep into this generation. It’s a yearly title and will get a couple patches at most before they bail on it for the next one.

GT7 has issues that I hate, but it’ll be supported for a few years.

It will be supported for a good few years till they come out with ps8

 

[Imari]

As long as there is cross play, Gran Turismo 7 online will always be broken.

Yet this is strangely not true for other games that have crossplay. Why is that? Are PD just incapable of making an online system work across multiple versions of similar hardware?

Because I've been enjoying mindless button-mashing in Multiversus most of the week. It's got crossplay between PC, Xbox and Playstation and the online has to my experience been nearly flawless. And that's a filthy F2P game.

I think I get mistaken for some Gran Turismo fanboy (which I am).

You can't really say that people are mistaken and in the same breath admit that they're right. Well, you can, but it makes you look like you drank too much paint thinner.

 

[Scaff]

It will be supported for a good few years

It may be...

till they come out with ps8

...given that we have no idea when that will be, or if PD plan on a second title on the PS5 (I assume PS8 is a typo), that's unlikely.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

GT7 isn't perfect... but I am enjoying it. 😎

 

[chzsln485]

F1 22 is the first one I’ve skipped since f1 2010 came out. It’s got EA crap in it and buggy even though they’re a few releases deep into this generation. It’s a yearly title and will get a couple patches at most before they bail on it for the next one.

GT7 has issues that I hate, but it’ll be supported for a few years.

Agreed, I get the impression that PD is slowly (arguably too slowly) addressing their issues, but at least they're doing it... unlike F1 which I do worry will just be left to wither once they move onto 23. The games seem to have been declining since 2020 and I have no reason to move on from that for a while, it seems.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Yet this is strangely not true for other games that have crossplay. Why is that? Are PD just incapable of making an online system work across multiple versions of similar hardware?

Because I've been enjoying mindless button-mashing in Multiversus most of the week. It's got crossplay between PC, Xbox and Playstation and the online has to my experience been nearly flawless. And that's a filthy F2P game.

You can't really say that people are mistaken and in the same breath admit that they're right. Well, you can, but it makes you look like you drank too much paint thinner.

I think the crossplay conundrum with sim racing in general has to do with the rapid frame rate refresh requirements, as with all the background calculations that are taking place every fraction of a second…. Compared to other types of video games. I’m probably wrong tho.

As for your other statement, it’s called irony. It’s supposed to be funny. I guess I missed the mark

 

[Matt atkins]

It may be...

...given that we have no idea when that will be, or if PD plan on a second title on the PS5 (I assume PS8 is a typo), that's unlikely.

I think that is in 3 years time ps8

 

[jonoholland29]

PS6 isn't due till 2027 or so and then 2035-2040 for PS7 so I assume you mean GT8

 

[mynameis66]

I think that is in 3 years time ps8

?

 

[Matt atkins]

PS6 isn't due till 2027 or so and then 2035-2040 for PS7 so I assume you mean GT8

No ps8 I mean

2024 is waaay to early for GT8 I would think. A console life is what?…. 7 years? 8-9 if they want to milk it. PS5 came out in 2020.

It would make zero sense for PD and Sony to spend the $$$ to VR GT7 and only get 18 months of mileage out of it before the next title.

My money is on PD/Sony taking the GTA route with GT7. Make it the Gran Turismo title for the entire life of this console. It makes the most financial sense.

I’ll gladly eat crow on this if I’m wrong. But I think I’ll be right.

Ps5 has only just come out in 2021

 

[Famine]

No ps8 I mean

Ps5 has only just come out in 2021

Yes, this is what literally everyone is saying to you.

You keep posting about the PS8 - PlayStation 8 - coming in 2025, which is ludicrous as the PlayStation 5 has only just come out. Sony would need to release an entire new console every year to reach PlayStation 8 by 2025.

What you clearly mean is GT8 - Gran Turismo 8 - but even though people have been very kind and interpreted that for you, you've doubled down on PlayStation 8 again.


And in any case, GT8 isn't coming in 2025 either.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

GT6 ---- > GT7 = Just a little bit over 8 years.

And the transition in hardware was massive. You are already reaching a point where going beyond a certain resolution and refresh rate doesn't bring any benefits unless you play on a big ass cinema screen or something, where even 4k will definitely not cut it.
But other than those very insignificant scenarios, 4k is already as good as it gets, and actually, even now, years after 4k has been "standart", people still see 1440p as a pretty good sweet spot, especially on something like 27inch monitor. For 55-65 inch TVs, 4k is really good as it is.

Even more irrelevant is refresh rate these days. Which for racing games, 60fps is exceptionally good as it is. Higher refresh rates than 60fps will only benefit open world 3rd/1st person view games, and mostly shooters.
I played CS:GO for a few years, and when I made the change from 60 to 144hz, I was astonished, it made a world of difference. However, after I tried out a 240hz, I barely saw any improvement, and there's videos on youtube with more casuals unable to tell the difference between 144hz and 240hz, but can easily tell the difference between 60 and 144...
I could see (barely, and this is because I'm someone who plays a lot) a bit more fluidity but barely anything worth mentioning. We already have 360hz monitors and from the reviews I'm seeing, unless you play at the pro level at something where every single .1% of an improvement matters, they are not worth buying.
It's been scientifically proven that the higher the refresh rates we get from now on (240hz and above) you get diminished returns, to the point of being insignificant.

So, since you are likely not going to get huge advancements in terms of hardware, aside from maybe Ray Tracing, Gran Turismo 7 will definitely stand the test of time for a lot longer than its predecessors. In fact, the game itself is beind held back by the console's hardware and not the other way around. So it's more the console devs that have to rush more for either an updated PS5 console model (PS5 Pro?) or a new console rather than the game devs rushing to make a new game to "keep up with the times".

You won't see Gran Turismo 8 anywhere before 2027/2028, which is going to be about the time the PS6 is likely to release.

Yearly titles (basically almost anything EA, Activision) for me have been a complete waste of money. I'm still astonished at how many people keep buying these games, when they should've realized by now that the games year in, year out, are the exact same with minimal added features/graphics and with just roster updates... that could've been updates by themselves in the first place and not full 70-80€ "new" games.

Gran Turismo 7 has a lot of flaws, but I would never trade it for something as rubbish as F1 games. And I'm an F1 fan myself who would like to have some more real life F1 cars in GT. I stopped playing F1 games since F1 2013. I then decided to go for F1 2020 to see if the franchise has improved or not, and I found it pretty damn mediocre.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I'm the one of the worst offenders of using hyperbole, but GT7.... an alpha test?? 'C'mon man'!!

I repeat, 6 MONTHS in and we just got the CHAT FUNCTION. We still can't load a ghost lap. I can save the ghost, but I can't load the ghost. Ergo, that feature is incomplete. The chat we had was something cobbled together for launch.

Alpha is not feature complete, and GT7 is not feature complete in regards to the most basic elements. I can say that selling a car is an obvious, intentional omission, but the rest of the features? We also don't have best lap times and best sectors being saved, and it was broken in GT Sport for years.

We're not talking content updates here. Yes, it is hyperbolic to say Alpha, but unfortunately, it's not THAT hyperbolic.

Met up with our virtual car club last night. We're still on GTS as the lobbies in GT7 still aren't upon to par yet. I haven't played GTS in months. The first thing that struck me was how much better the graphics were on GT7, as the physics. While I do think its fair to say that GT7 is a continuation and build off of GTS, I don't think its a reach to say that they are almost two entirely separate games. I've said it before; that there is so much more going on underneath the preverbal "hood" of GT7 compared to Sport, that I think its enough to consider it a completely new game. Kind of like GTA San Andreas when it relaunched on PS4. Same game, yes. But completely different. Under this estimated preface, its no wonder GT7 online is broken

It's probably two separate teams, with two different philosophies. Still, it's no excuse for what we are seeing.

I actually went back to GT Sport the other day and I have to disagree on the "looking better" part (PS4 to PS4 comparison). It looks different, but close inspection shows that some stuff looks better, and some stuff looks worse.

That's why I think GT7 is somewhat of a dumpster fire. Cross play was something PD never had intended on doing, until the last minute order (probably 6 months before release) from Sony to do so. And I've also said this many times before; it was the right business call by Sony to do so.


Online content with GT7 needs to severe the umbilical cord with PS4 asap if they want the game to start working. Update the single player content (within reason) for PS4. But in order for this game to reach its potential, I think this needs to be done as soon as practical.


I'm embarrassed for you PD, and Sony

First, it's no different (or should be no different) than the past when Sony released different generations of PlayStation. If cross play is supported, then it should work. The consoles are just sending packets of information back and forth. It's not like the physics is being simulated on the host or some silliness like that. The internet speed doesn't change from PS4 to PS5.

None the less "severing" the PS4 is insanity. The Genie is out of the bottle and no one is running out to buy a PS5 for this game now, especially now that it's in the bargain bin and the chip shortage is still in effect. In fact, since GT Sport does not have these same issues, the culprit could be the PS5 version.

I see that 117 million PS4's have been sold to 20 million PS5's (about 6:1), and Sony hasn't said which console has seen more sales of GT 7, but there's a good chance that the reason they pushed for cross gen is that they believe the PS5 install base would have led to poor sales. We don't know yet, but it could very will be that the sales of GT7 could be following the install base ratio of 6:1, so it would be the PS5 users that get cut loose IF something like that were to happen....but it won't.

 

[Samus]

I think the crossplay conundrum with sim racing in general has to do with the rapid frame rate refresh requirements, as with all the background calculations that are taking place every fraction of a second…. Compared to other types of video games. I’m probably wrong tho.

You certainly are. GT7 refresh rate is a standard 60Hz, same as many other games. There is nothing special about racing games, all of the background physics calculations are done on the host machine. All the netcode needs to do is know and relay the position of each car on the track and make sure they're all synced up. No different to a shooter game where the players position all needs to be tracked and their shooting needs to be in sync.

 

[Yard_Sale]

You certainly are. GT7 refresh rate is a standard 60Hz, same as many other games. There is nothing special about racing games, all of the background physics calculations are done on the host machine. All the netcode needs to do is know and relay the position of each car on the track and make sure they're all synced up. No different to a shooter game where the players position all needs to be tracked and their shooting needs to be in sync.

Could the stability issue in crossplay be related to the different speeds in which a PS4 and PS5 can interpret the information?

 

[Scaff]

I think that is in 3 years time ps8

Still hoping that's a typo....

 

[jonoholland29]

GT6 ---- > GT7 = Just a little bit over 8 years.

And the transition in hardware was massive. You are already reaching a point where going beyond a certain resolution and refresh rate doesn't bring any benefits unless you play on a big ass cinema screen or something, where even 4k will definitely not cut it.
But other than those very insignificant scenarios, 4k is already as good as it gets, and actually, even now, years after 4k has been "standart", people still see 1440p as a pretty good sweet spot, especially on something like 27inch monitor. For 55-65 inch TVs, 4k is really good as it is.

Even more irrelevant is refresh rate these days. Which for racing games, 60fps is exceptionally good as it is. Higher refresh rates than 60fps will only benefit open world 3rd/1st person view games, and mostly shooters.
I played CS:GO for a few years, and when I made the change from 60 to 144hz, I was astonished, it made a world of difference. However, after I tried out a 240hz, I barely saw any improvement, and there's videos on youtube with more casuals unable to tell the difference between 144hz and 240hz, but can easily tell the difference between 60 and 144...
I could see (barely, and this is because I'm someone who plays a lot) a bit more fluidity but barely anything worth mentioning. We already have 360hz monitors and from the reviews I'm seeing, unless you play at the pro level at something where every single .1% of an improvement matters, they are not worth buying.
It's been scientifically proven that the higher the refresh rates we get from now on (240hz and above) you get diminished returns, to the point of being insignificant.

So, since you are likely not going to get huge advancements in terms of hardware, aside from maybe Ray Tracing, Gran Turismo 7 will definitely stand the test of time for a lot longer than its predecessors. In fact, the game itself is beind held back by the console's hardware and not the other way around. So it's more the console devs that have to rush more for either an updated PS5 console model (PS5 Pro?) or a new console rather than the game devs rushing to make a new game to "keep up with the times".

You won't see Gran Turismo 8 anywhere before 2027/2028, which is going to be about the time the PS6 is likely to release.

Yearly titles (basically almost anything EA, Activision) for me have been a complete waste of money. I'm still astonished at how many people keep buying these games, when they should've realized by now that the games year in, year out, are the exact same with minimal added features/graphics and with just roster updates... that could've been updates by themselves in the first place and not full 70-80€ "new" games.

Gran Turismo 7 has a lot of flaws, but I would never trade it for something as rubbish as F1 games. And I'm an F1 fan myself who would like to have some more real life F1 cars in GT. I stopped playing F1 games since F1 2013. I then decided to go for F1 2020 to see if the franchise has improved or not, and I found it pretty damn mediocre.

I’ll find my source when I’m back in front of my PC but there was research done to show that the human eye and brain cannot see more than circa 75 frames per second under normal circumstances. So 4k at 120fps should be more than adequate.

Source: https://azretina.sites.arizona.edu/node/837

 

[Samus]

Could the stability issue in crossplay be related to the different speeds in which a PS4 and PS5 can interpret the information?

I don't see how, it's all in the networking and PS4 and PS5 are broadly the same in that regard.

If cross play had any fundamental issues between different hardware then it wouldn't have ever existed, and PC online would never work at all since everyone has different hardware.

No, I'm afraid whatever issues GT7 is having is solely down to PD and their netcode.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I don't see how, it's all in the networking and PS4 and PS5 are broadly the same in that regard.

If cross play had any fundamental issues between different hardware then it wouldn't have ever existed, and PC online would never work at all since everyone has different hardware.

No, I'm afraid whatever issues GT7 is having is solely down to PD and their netcode.

It’s probably a combination of both. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have separated PS4 from PS5 players in the daily’s. FIA events were an absolute train wreck in the beginning with cross play. To this day, they still are a mixed bag. PS5 daily lobbies go on with no hitches. I’m assuming it’s the same for PS4?

With the PC thing, I know different powered computers have different frame rates and track details. I’ve watched YouTube.com videos on it on how you can scale down the graphics IG.


Maybe @Scaff could speak more to this

 

[Yard_Sale]

Yes, this is what literally everyone is saying to you.

You keep posting about the PS8 - PlayStation 8 - coming in 2025, which is ludicrous as the PlayStation 5 has only just come out. Sony would need to release an entire new console every year to reach PlayStation 8 by 2025.

What you clearly mean is GT8 - Gran Turismo 8 - but even though people have been very kind and interpreted that for you, you've doubled down on PlayStation 8 again.


And in any case, GT8 isn't coming in 2025 either.

I’ll be curious to see if console and PC gaming remains a thing past 2030ish. I’m assuming everything will be a combination cloud-based, as well as processors built into peripheral’s, a la Oculus by then

I’m guessing it will probably all come down to $$$

 

[Grimm6Jack]

I’ll find my source when I’m back in front of my PC but there was research done to show that the human eye and brain cannot see more than circa 75 frames per second under normal circumstances. So 4k at 120fps should be more than adequate.

Source: https://azretina.sites.arizona.edu/node/837

It's not about the eye "seeing" those exact frames, but you notice the "fluidity" with higher refresh rate. However, even that fluidity after 144hz, starts to be insignificantly noticeable. The only thing this could benefit in games other than shooters or similar, is if you want to see a replay in slow motion and yes, higher refresh rate would obviously help with that, but that doesn't exactly benefit much of anything really.

Definitely agree with you, that the "Holy Grail" is 2160p 120fps... The "well-balanced" would be 1440p 120fps or 2160p 60fps and the "satisfactory or bare minimum" is 1080p 60 fps.

Anything above 2160p 120fps, is just bragging rights really...

 

[Tornado]

As much as GT6's pre-release hype was basically just filled with lies and the game even after two years of work probably never reached the lofty heights of "as good as GT5 already was before GT6 came out", PD still worked on it (well beyond the point where it was likely worth doing).



Regardless of whether GT7 on PS4 was foisted on them, PD still made their bed releasing it in the state it is regardless of console of choice. To abandon one of them within a year to focus on only the other would be a level of brand suicide last seen when Sega made game consoles.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I don't see how, it's all in the networking and PS4 and PS5 are broadly the same in that regard.

If cross play had any fundamental issues between different hardware then it wouldn't have ever existed, and PC online would never work at all since everyone has different hardware.

No, I'm afraid whatever issues GT7 is having is solely down to PD and their netcode.

But a YouTuber said it’s cross gen at fault it must be that…

 

[Imari]

I think the crossplay conundrum with sim racing in general has to do with the rapid frame rate refresh requirements, as with all the background calculations that are taking place every fraction of a second…. Compared to other types of video games. I’m probably wrong tho.

Yeah, nah. The high frame rates of sim racing are really no different from many other competitive games. Fighting games, shooters, RTSes and even MOBAs become much harder to play at low frame rates. It's just a baseline expectation of competitive games that there will be a high and stable frame rate, and 60fps is pretty much considered a bare minimum for most.

As for the background calculations, I see nothing to indicate that they're particularly more arduous than any other type of game. The game has to run physics for the player car, but in an online environment it's not having to run AI and AI physics like they would in single player. If there's prediction and/or rollback it has to run those, but so do a lot of games.

And all of this has nothing in particular to do with crossplay. These are not problems that arise because players are running different hardware. They are problems that exist regardless of whether everyone is on the same hardware or not. The only difficulty with crossplay is getting the game to run properly on multiple hardware configurations and communicate in a unified manner, which doesn't seem particularly exceptional in 2022. The only games that don't have to do this are ones that release as exclusives for PS5 or Switch. That's not that many any more.

Could the stability issue in crossplay be related to the different speeds in which a PS4 and PS5 can interpret the information?

Seems pretty unlikely. If GTS can be stable then the PS4 is capable of interpreting information fast enough. It's not like the information is even particularly complex in a racing game. Position/orientation and speed can be described very simply. If the PS4 can't interpret that fast enough then that's on the programmers.

I think you're grasping for reasons that aren't "Polyphony seems to have messed something up with their netcode". Polyphony weren't famous for magnificent netcode even before GT7, and they're far from the first developer to have a game with a bad implementation. It wouldn't even necessarily be a big deal if they'd just talk about it. I mean, it would still be a problem, but if they talked people through how they identified what the problem was and why it's not a trivial fix but they're working on it and they'll come back with updates as they go but here's what they're doing for now... I think a lot more people would be on board with waiting it out.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Yeah, nah. The high frame rates of sim racing are really no different from many other competitive games. Fighting games, shooters, RTSes and even MOBAs become much harder to play at low frame rates. It's just a baseline expectation of competitive games that there will be a high and stable frame rate, and 60fps is pretty much considered a bare minimum for most.

As for the background calculations, I see nothing to indicate that they're particularly more arduous than any other type of game. The game has to run physics for the player car, but in an online environment it's not having to run AI and AI physics like they would in single player. If there's prediction and/or rollback it has to run those, but so do a lot of games.

And all of this has nothing in particular to do with crossplay. These are not problems that arise because players are running different hardware. They are problems that exist regardless of whether everyone is on the same hardware or not. The only difficulty with crossplay is getting the game to run properly on multiple hardware configurations and communicate in a unified manner, which doesn't seem particularly exceptional in 2022. The only games that don't have to do this are ones that release as exclusives for PS5 or Switch. That's not that many any more.

Seems pretty unlikely. If GTS can be stable then the PS4 is capable of interpreting information fast enough. It's not like the information is even particularly complex in a racing game. Position/orientation and speed can be described very simply. If the PS4 can't interpret that fast enough then that's on the programmers.

I think you're grasping for reasons that aren't "Polyphony seems to have messed something up with their netcode". Polyphony weren't famous for magnificent netcode even before GT7, and they're far from the first developer to have a game with a bad implementation. It wouldn't even necessarily be a big deal if they'd just talk about it. I mean, it would still be a problem, but if they talked people through how they identified what the problem was and why it's not a trivial fix but they're working on it and they'll come back with updates as they go but here's what they're doing for now... I think a lot more people would be on board with waiting it out.

I would be curious to hear from PC sim racers that race competively online in ACC, or something that has equally as complicated physics and track/weather models. I wonder what type… if any, issues they have. There for sure has to be rather large discrepancies in hardware horsepower between players.

Like mentioned, GTS was fine with crossplay, so why not GT7. Either you hit the nail on the head and it is a coding issue, or the background calculations are just much more complicated than GTS, and more akin to that of ACC? GTS and GT7 physics differences aside, I wonder if the dynamic weather and dynamic track conditions really are as complicated as PD said it was in the State of play event. Then I could see how that might kick things over the edge.


Question to the room…

What are the daily races like on PS4? Fine? On PS5 they’re ok, despite some minor ping issues during races when usually in close proximity to other racers.

 

[Madertus]

Like mentioned, GTS was fine with crossplay, so why not GT7. Either you hit the nail on the head and it is a coding issue, or the background calculations are just much more complicated than GTS, and more akin to that of ACC? GTS and GT7 physics differences aside, I wonder if the dynamic weather and dynamic track conditions really are as complicated as PD said it was in the State of play event. Then I could see how that might kick things over the edge.

GT7 on PS4 is crossplay.
GTSport on PS5 is backwards compatibility.

GTSport is fine with crossplay because it's technically not crossplay. The PS5 emulates the PS4; it's backwards compatible. The game still thinks it's played on a PS4 console. GT7 was designed for PS5, with PS4 in mind. The PS4 definitely can handle GT7. There are clearly some issues with how PS5 and PS4 versions of the game talk to each other. Why other games aren't having issues this severe I am no idea.

I would be curious to hear from PC sim racers that race competively online in ACC, or something that has equally as complicated physics and track/weather models. I wonder what type… if any, issues they have. There for sure has to be rather large discrepancies in hardware horsepower between players.

I haven't done much online racing myself on PC but I've been watching a lot of in the past few months, mainly iRacing and Assetto Corsa Competizione. The biggest netcode-related problems I notice are collision detection, but while these are relatively frequent, they aren't that severe in the long run. And it sure as hell is nowhere close to how GT7 can absolutely glitch the **** out online. Cars outright teleporting or "blinking" in these titles are a rare occurrence from what I've seen.

I don't know, whenever I look at Gran Turismo being played online, other cars always look "floaty", like they're skating on the asphalt or are juuuuuuust above it. It's been like this since GT5; I see the exact same type of floatiness in GT7. I'm not sure what to call GT7 online, but it's either unstable, period, or it's almost stable.