Toyota Reveals 86 Successor: GR 86

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on April 5th, 2021 in the Automotive News category.

 

Maaaan, I'm loving all these upcoming new cars. Can't wait to drive them all in GT7 lol.

 

Well, looks like Top Gear will need to be getting a new Reasonably Fast car...

 

Body reminds me of the 350z

 

Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks almost identical to the current 86 save for a few minor cosmetic changes and 30 odd hp more.

If GT7 ever sees the light of day hehe.

 

Man what a beauty

 

It's actually a Mitsubishi FTO.

 

I'd accept the styling if Acura had wanted to revive the RSX alongside the NSX a few years back. Not distinct enough to succeed the previous 86 / BRZ.

 

It’s a little too stale when put next to the predecessor. It looks like Toyota and Honda (look at new civic) have gone away from the wacky designs of the 2010’s and have gone for more approachable designs; the marketing teams must’ve talked them down. Not a bad design overall, there’s lots of carryover from the old boy so it was never going to be off-putting - but wish they gave it some more personality.

 

It's still just a bit... meh. Surely Toyota/Subaru would have learned from the mediocre sales of the original that it needs a turbocharger? It doesn't need 400hp, but 6+ seconds 0-100kph in this day and age is just slow. I don't care how good the chassis is

 

I like it! It's not as aggressive looking as the older version, however it does look more refined, mature and it now has a more adequate engine. These cars have always handled like a dream, they are a blast to drive and even super forgiving. But man, they are slow on a straight line. My former roomate had a BR-Z and I remember my crappy Impala was considerably quicker on a straight.

 

Sure, an RSX Type-S and a fox body Mustang can do 0-60 in 6 seconds, but again, this car ain't about that. It's about the driving experience. Drifting, ease of use around a circuit, how the car takes to customising.
If someone here, is buying it to drive A to B, grocery shopping, needs to parallel park and paying a car note that leaves them enough to pay rent, 6 seconds to 60mph, is fast enough.

 

This car will not ! Bite you leg off.

 

Front: MX-5 / RX-8
Side: Nissan 370Z
Rear: FTO

The old one looked better imho.

 

Front end looks pretty great, better than the BRZ. The rear end though looks like it has too much of the Subaru design language for me to see it as a Toyota, wish they did a bit more to change it up from the BRZ.

 

Nice car. I like it in red with black wheels. Lower the car a little bit and it is a beautiful car. But as always, I want to see it IRL. If there is one thing that I don't like so far, it's the taillights.

 

Weird choice of engine, large displacement/NA is going to attract higher taxes. When you consider the yaris GR engine has this licked for both power and torque they could easily have made a 1800 or 2 litre turbo which would be better on fuel, emissions and be quicker.

Still, not a bad looking thing, head on it reminds me of the jag F type.

 

That butt is pure FTO... and I’m not complaining.

 

So you're saying it doesn't need more power...but it needs more power?

sigh

You don't need a fast car to have fun driving it, it needs to handle well, make you feel as if the car is a part of you, have full control over it. Oh but you don't care about the chassis...

sigh

 

I love it. But then, I was a huge fan of the previous generation. And I'm SO relieved that they kept it N/A and did the sensible thing by adding some displacement and NOT increasing the weight.

 

Old school recipe, I'm a fan already.

 

If you don’t care about the chassis why’re you on an 86 forum lmao

 

I prefer the characteristics of a powerful (read: enough torque to really feel the acceleration) N/A engineover over a Turbo'd engine.

Low weight, 250 Nm and more HP is a huge improvement over the previous version.

 

A last-gen Swift Sport makes do with 136ps and 118lb ft of torque but with so little weight and an ability to keep momentum in a way no other car I've driven can, bald power isn't the be all and end all for fun, or this car's.

A lack of personality might well be its undoing, though.

 

I think you misunderstood my comment. The original car had 200hp. My point was, it doesn't need 400hp, but it needs a hell of a lot more than 200.

250-300hp is pretty modest these days and would make this car a hell of a lot more exciting to drive, without being overpowered.

My comment regarding the chassis was contextual (another concept you seem to have missed), and is qualified by the previous statement that it is underpowered. In other words, to break it down for you, I don't care how good the chassis is WHEN it is so underpowered.

 

I like it, but I'll wait until after the facelift. I will quite likely buy it at some point.

 

I'm just curious...what cars have you driven? I've driven plenty - from sub-100hp cars to 550hp+ cars. I've driven cars with a lot less than 200hp that were plenty quick enough for the street. I've also driven 300hp and even 500hp cars that felt underwhelming. For me it's less about the headline power figures and more about the character of the engine and how it works with the car.

A few last bench comparisons:

A 1990 Mustang GT 5.0 was around 3,000lb (average) and had 225hp and 300lbs-ft torque. I owned one. They feel strong, even stock. Assuming that torque and that weight and the factory 3.08 final drive and T5 ratios I'm getting:

1st gear: 1.03tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.613tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.41tq/lb

370z. 335hp from a big V6. But a decent amount more weight too
1st gear: 1.17tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.71tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.50tq/lb

Finally, lets look at the E46 M3, a car that used to be compared to contemporary Ferraris
1st gear: 1.14tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.69tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.50tq/lb

and from the other thread, here is the BRZ

1st gear: 1.02tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.61tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.43tq/lb

So the new BRZ should feel almost the same in terms of grunt as a 5 liter fox body mustang and not really far off of a 370z or E46 M3 - both of which have well over 300hp. Now, again, this is less related to measurable performance figures and more related to how the thing actually feels to drive - the 370Z and E46 M3 would walk away hard every time the BRZ shifted I suspect. But in a street car, does that really matter? While the example cars wouldn't be breaking any records if they were on sale in 2021, anyone who has driven a 5 liter manual transmission foxbody or 370z knows they aren't what you'd call slow. So combine that relative "shove" factor with an incredibly balanced chassis, and the new car should be a riot. Give me a foxbody Mustang with a perfect chassis any day.

 

This is finally a modern 240Z, even displacement, if not cylinder count matches. The first generation was oh so close already.

 

To me, the 86/BRZ not being unnecessarily powerful and quick is it's main selling point. There is a growing dearth of sports cars that are quite simple overall and in the 200-300hp range on the market, and the 86/BRZ sticking to this formula is refreshing. The same could be said for the new Supra as well, with its fastest trim having 340hp. Especially in the era of almost every electric sports car doing 0-60 in the 3 second range or less, the traditional "compact" performance cars like the M3 and C-Class AMG now exceeding 500hp, and supercars exceeding 800hp becoming the norm. To say it bluntly, yes, many modern performance cars are overpowered. Some of this is because on the marketing side, there is the need to make each generation of a car more powerful than the last, to keep up consumer excitement, and high horsepower numbers is also a way to compensate for many new cars today having increasingly aggressive and complicated exterior styling. Maybe it's just me, but it seems we are re-entering an era where off-the-line acceleration and horsepower figures themselves is the foremost priority when it comes to performance cars, rather than cornering abilities and the overall "fun" the car provides. Plus, the 86/BRZ having a lower-than-average horsepower figure only keeps the price down. That and the Miata are the only affordable RWD drivers cars left on the market.

The new 86 doing 0-60 in six seconds is not "slow" at all. It may appear slow given the quickly growing number of cars which can do 0-60 in the three-second range, such as the new Kia EV, but it's exactly what is expected of a modern sporty car with 227hp that is relatively lightweight. It was only 30 years ago where six seconds was considered "fast"; Skyline GT-Rs, NSXs, M3s, many Porsches, and top-of-the-line Mustang/Camaro trims only surpassed this number slightly.