2008 Best Car Series (Round 2): Honda S2000 vs Audi R8

[JCE]

Duh, R8 FTW!

 

[Jim Prower]

I really dont' think the R8's all that important in the grand scheme of things, but the S2000 is a car I could possibly reasonably afford. I'm a little surprised, too to see some of the same people who voted Exige, touting it's light weight and sporting purity, voting against the S2000. Come on! You're gonna turn on a pure, light sports car to vote for a heavy, technologically advanced, 4WD supercar?

Flip. Flop.

I disagree that it's getting old, very much so: it still even looks fresh today. The R8, I predict, will look old in two years. It's just that spur-of-the-moment, something that's a glittering jewel for a little while, but tarnishes quickly. It's too trendy, too designer-label for me. It also represents victory of designer over engineer...something I'm none too keen on.

And the fact that the S2000 still amazes and wows after this long, without ANY increase in horsepower, really impresses. The R8 has two engines which haven't even been officially announced when they'll be on sale yet, so you know they think they need more power, and probably some time in the future.

 

[Philly]

Yeah. Age alone isn't something that can make a car any less good. The only reason age really plays a role in deciding how good a car is is whether that age has allowed the competition to pass it or if it has become a duller car (mostly from a looks standpoint).

 

[killer450235]

R8 because its not another Honda


Honda=

 

[Jim Prower]

I think your sig says it all.

I mean, I could do the same thing to the R8..."Oh, it's an Audi, must mean the engine's ahead of the front wheels and that it understeers like a pig..."

Doesn't mean it's right. I don't think the S2000 is "Just another Honda"...It is, after all, one of only four cars Honda has ever sold (The other three being the Beat, NSX, and S360-800) that has been Rear Wheel Drive.

 

[YSSMAN]

Competition being the RX8, TT, Z4, SLK and boxter and maybe the elise?

You must be smoking crack again. The S2000 has remained a strong competitior against all of the cars you've listed, and to that end, it continues to be a thorn in their side despite no major updates. The TT choice is laughable, the SLK only is worth a damn when it has a V8 under the hood, the Z4 is dead (and never was all that great of a competitor against the S2000), the RX8 is far too slow... That leaves the Porsche and the Elise, two radically different (and more expensive) cars compared to the S2000 that should be beating the S2000 no matter which way you put it.

The S2000 remains a relevant car because it was that damn good to begin with. Its as simple as that.

When was the last time the S2000 has won a review? In 2008 the car is outgunned, outclassed and out styled. Its a top notch motor, but the bar has moved on since, and a replacement is long overdue.

I'm not sure why that matters... The S2000 has remained a powerful option in the roadster market, and with the addition of the CR model, it continues to dominate a class that it defined eight years ago. Honda still sells every single one they build, and to that end, I imagine that a million voices will cry out when they finally kill it.

I will concede to the fact that it needs to be updated with an all-new model, but as of now, Honda is content with keeping the car as-is. Guess what, I'd rather have that instead.

 

[Tornado]

I will concede to the fact that it needs to be updated with an all-new model, but as of now, Honda is content with keeping the car as-is.

I think even that is too much of a concession, as the car is no less dominating now than it was when it was winning all those comparison tests a few years ago. As said above, being old is completely irrelevant if it is still at least at the top of its class, if not class leading.

 

[Boz Mon]

I'm going with the S2k again. If the R8 was TDI, then it would be a different story...

 

[Prosthetic]

R8 because its not another Honda


Honda=

Go kill your self right now. I don't think this forum needs more stupid non informative remarks that only make your self look dumb.


BRM V16, producing 600hp at 12,000 RPM and claimed 72 psi of boost all from a 1.5l engine. That will soil any domestic car you could ever possibly bring up. And my dream car is an Orange 71' 440 Hemi Cuda' so don't call me a Tuner Fanboy which I have been called before numerous times. But that car has the most godly sound ever, and I have stood 20 yards from top fuel cars going from 0-300 in 3 seconds.

A little over board but I hate useless remarks like that.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think even that is too much of a concession, as the car is no less dominating now than it was when it was winning all those comparison tests a few years ago. As said above, being old is completely irrelevant if it is still at least at the top of its class, if not class leading.

I do not disagree with you, but there are plenty of shallow people out there (like some people here) who seem to think that the car has to be brand-spanking new to be worth a damn. I noted at the end of that post that I'd prefer to keep it the way it is, but for continued success, Honda will eventually have to do something.

"Something" better not include killing the car altogether.

 

[Philly]

And there is a little merit to that, at least when making purchases. I would be more inclined to buy a car that just came out versus one that's been out a while, but that's mostly for the exclusivity of having that new car that's so cool for a while before you see then on every other street corner. We got the GTI when they were pretty new and it was a cool car. now it's just another one of those cars you see five of every day.

On the flip side, buying at the end of a cycle will generally mean your car is in generally better condition than the others from that generation.

For which car is better or not, I don't think it plays a role.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I am going for the S2000, has a V-Tech engine that can rev up to 9,000 rpm, it's a convertible, looks better, and it's Japanese

V-Tech is a company that makes little play computers for small children last I checked...

 

[niky]

If you say so.

I voted S2000 because it's still an extremely sweet-handling, brisk and good-looking sports car. Plus, it's pretty much bullet-proof and Honda's customer care is almost legendary.

Most Hondas are bulletproof... but that particular engine has a reputation for blowing up (I have friends who are rabid Honda fans). That's why the new S2000 is actually an S2200 with a redline 2000 rpm lower than before, to try to avoid such problems.

----

While I'd love to own an S2000... still gotta give credit where credit is due.

 

[McLaren]

If you say so.

I voted S2000 because it's still an extremely sweet-handling, brisk and good-looking sports car. Plus, it's pretty much bullet-proof and Honda's customer care is almost legendary.

Except you actually have to become a customer to get it. Otherwise, they really don't seem to care.

R8 because its not another Honda


Honda=

Oh really? And what exactly is it you drive? A Camaro or Mustang*?




*I hope most of the members here realize I'm turning the sterotype around.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Why is it then that people with small engines are quite often hypocrites? So so many times I've heard them saying how they don't need big displacement for big go, then they turn around to their mates and say how if they had a bit more displacement they could get that extra power they wanted.
Not pointing fingers or anything, but nobody on here will tell me I heard wrong.

 

[Famine]

Why is it then that people ... are quite often hypocrites?

Some folk get a bee in their bonnet about their car(s). They refuse to see them as anything but the best car ever. They can even get quite abusive and violent about it. It doesn't necessarily apply to any sector of vehicle ownership either.

 

[Joey D]

Big engines are for people and engineers that lack technology. You don't need a giant engine to produce horsepower. I would much rather have a 1.6L out of a Honda then a 5.3L V8 out of something else. Hell my Blazer had a 4.3L engine and it barely made 190hp, that's about the most inefficient engine I can think of in terms of size to power output.

===

You can quote me on this, I wouldn't care if I had the 1.4L in my car, in fact I would almost prefer it due to better fuel economy.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Some folk get a bee in their bonnet about their car(s). They refuse to see them as anything but the best car ever. They can even get quite abusive and violent about it. It doesn't necessarily apply to any sector of vehicle ownership either.

I see, you mean sort of like when the big engine owners brag about their big power then secretly admit to their mates that their car handles like crap?

Big engines are for people and engineers that lack technology. You don't need a giant engine to produce horsepower. I would much rather have a 1.6L out of a Honda then a 5.3L V8 out of something else. Hell my Blazer had a 4.3L engine and it barely made 190hp, that's about the most inefficient engine I can think of in terms of size to power output.

===

You can quote me on this, I wouldn't care if I had the 1.4L in my car, in fact I would almost prefer it due to better fuel economy.

Tell that to the designers of the LS7, which revs higher than the GT-R's V6. I'm not sure why you keep using the Blazer as an example, it's not designed to rev, or make big power, it's centralised on low rev torque. Tell me how much torque it made at what RPM?
You can have the 1.4L, you seem like the kind of guy who is happy with something more practical for day to day use, yet has a bit of fun when you push it through the corners. Just don't expect good 1/4mile times from a 1.4L is all I'm worried about.

 

[Joey D]

I keep using the Blazer example because it's a.) what I know and experienced, and b.) illustrates my point. The Blazer made 190hp and only 250 lb.ft. of torque around 2500rpm while redlining about 5000rpm. It was gutless, couldn't tow anything to save it's soul, got awful fuel mileage and didn't do the quarter for beans. This was a 4.3L V6, an enormous engine when you think that Ferrari has a 4.3L V8 making what, three times the horsepower?

A vast majority of people in the car buying world could not care less about 1/4 times, they are meaningless figures. And I would bet a 1.4L could be just as fast as a 5.3L engine, it's all about how the power is used and what sort of weight the vehicle is lugging around. Small and light, with a small engine will always be better then big and heavy with a V8 engine.

 

[Danny]

I keep using the Blazer example because it's a.) what I know and experienced, and b.) illustrates my point. The Blazer made 190hp and only 250 lb.ft. of torque around 2500rpm while redlining about 5000rpm. It was gutless, couldn't tow anything to save it's soul, got awful fuel mileage and didn't do the quarter for beans. This was a 4.3L V6, an enormous engine when you think that Ferrari has a 4.3L V8 making what, three times the horsepower?

But it was so ridiculously cool!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I keep using the Blazer example because it's a.) what I know and experienced, and b.) illustrates my point. The Blazer made 190hp and only 250 lb.ft. of torque around 2500rpm while redlining about 5000rpm. It was gutless, couldn't tow anything to save it's soul, got awful fuel mileage and didn't do the quarter for beans. This was a 4.3L V6, an enormous engine when you think that Ferrari has a 4.3L V8 making what, three times the horsepower?

A vast majority of people in the car buying world could not care less about 1/4 times, they are meaningless figures. And I would bet a 1.4L could be just as fast as a 5.3L engine, it's all about how the power is used and what sort of weight the vehicle is lugging around. Small and light, with a small engine will always be better then big and heavy with a V8 engine.

1/4 mile times meaningless figures? You've lost the plot you have.
Small and light with a small engine wil always be better than big and heavy with a V8 engine...........oh, so that's why our lightly modified V8 Commodore was killing Silvias left right and centre and even GT-Rs at Powercruise? That 1.4L is going to need one hell of a lot of work and money spent, and hope like hell the V8 is still stock.

Edit: You really need to stop using a truck engine as a performance car comparison.

 

[Joey D]

But it was so ridiculously cool!

You should have bought it then, I'm sure it would have been love by all in the UK .

===

1/4 mile times meaningless figures? You've lost the plot you have.
Small and light with a small engine wil always be better than big and heavy with a V8 engine...........oh, so that's why our lightly modified V8 Commodore was killing Silvias left right and centre and even GT-Rs at Powercruise? That 1.4L is going to need one hell of a lot of work and money spent, and hope like hell the V8 is still stock.

The plot? Is this a story now? When's the climax? Who are the main characters? Is Samuel L. Jackson going to make an appearance?.

And that's why a Lotus Elise will run circles around most cars then? Or how about the Ariel Atom? Small and light with a low displacement engine. You don't need money or modifications to have a fast four cylinder. You can build anything to be fast.

 

[Danny]

You should have bought it then, I'm sure it would have been love by all in the UK .

...It wouldn't fit, otherwise I'd have bought that in a heartbeat!

I sitll harbour a grudge towards your for getting rid of it. I don't think I'm physically able ot ever let it go, Joey.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The plot? Is this a story now? When's the climax? Who are the main characters? Is Samuel L. Jackson going to make an appearance?.

And that's why a Lotus Elise will run circles around most cars then? Or how about the Ariel Atom? Small and light with a low displacement engine. You don't need money or modifications to have a fast four cylinder. You can build anything to be fast.

Yes, Samuel L. Jackson is making an appearance, but he'll be driving a muscle car.

Why would I buy an Elise when I can have a real go-kart which is actually faster and a cheaper form of racing around tracks than the Elise. The Atom is a bigger go-kart, and useless in the rain as a daily. How about a proper hatch, as most of us will never own car like go-karts anyway?
On top of that, the Elise's engine is a 2.0L isn't it? Much bigger than 1.4L, and they get a good launch but really suffer top end.

Edit: My mistake, Elise is a 1.8L, still bigger, and supercharged. And I almost forgot, the part I just bolded, to build something to go fast is to spend money.

 

[Joey D]

You missed my point, it doesn't matter what the size of the Elise's engine is (although I think it's 1.8), it's the fact that a small, lightweight car with a four cylinder engine can be just as fast if not faster than a V8.

 

[Famine]

Yes, Samuel L. Jackson is making an appearance, but he'll be driving a muscle car.

Why would I buy an Elise when I can have a real go-kart which is actually faster and a cheaper form of racing around tracks than the Elise. The Atom is a bigger go-kart, and useless in the rain as a daily. How about a proper hatch, as most of us will never own car like go-karts anyway?
On top of that, the Elise's engine is a 2.0L isn't it? Much bigger than 1.4L, and they get a good launch but really suffer top end.

Edit: My mistake, Elise is a 1.8L, still bigger, and supercharged. And I almost forgot, the part I just bolded, to build something to go fast is to spend money.

Two points. The Elise is a 1.8, non-supercharged for most of the range. There are some supercharged versions (notably the Exige S).

And the Atom? Tell my brother it's useless in the rain as a daily. He'll laugh at you.

And it's a Honda engine at that.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

You missed my point, it doesn't matter what the size of the Elise's engine is (although I think it's 1.8), it's the fact that a small, lightweight car with a four cylinder engine can be just as fast if not faster than a V8.

WHOA, clicked report by accident then, that was close.

It can be fast, with a supercharger bolted up, hey I wonder what happens when I supercharge a V8 and....oh dear, look at that:

Edit: @ Famine, the Atom has a roof does it? Some of us need to be dry and look presentable, not wind blown, when we show up for work.
The only Elise making truly noteworthy acceleration times are supercharged yes? The best N/A one I can see gets low 5s 0-100km/hr, my big ol' V8 Commodore can beat that, and afterwards it's just an uphill battle for the Elise which will struggle to reach high speeds for low power.

 

[Famine]

It can be fast, with a supercharger bolted up, hey I wonder what happens when I supercharge a V8 and....oh dear, look at that:

Superchargers add displacement. The Exige supercharger flows 62cui, I recall, so the 1.8 becomes a 2.8. The Atom supercharger flows 62cui, so the 2.0 becomes a 3.0.

So in reality small engine (2.8 - 3.0) in small car can outperform a big engine (6.0) in a big car.

Supercharge the big engine and you're just restoring the displacement gap. It's not like-for-like.


You're getting hung up on how your power is made. If you have it, why does it matter where it comes from?

Edit: @ Famine, the Atom has a roof does it? Some of us need to be dry and look presentable, not wind blown, when we show up for work.

Apparently he manages it just fine, as do several thousand commuters who choose motorbikes to get to work.

The only Elise making truly noteworthy acceleration times are supercharged yes? The best N/A one I can see gets low 5s 0-100km/hr, my big ol' V8 Commodore can beat that, and afterwards it's just an uphill battle for the Elise which will struggle to reach high speeds for low power.

You know I'd swear we were talking about lap times before.

 

[Duke]

This was a 4.3L V6, an enormous engine when you think that Ferrari has a 4.3L V8 making what, three times the horsepower?

OK... and it's also designed to tolerate going 30,000 miles between oil changes, have a 200,000-mile lifespan, run on crap gasoline, and perform reliably anywhere between the Arctic Circle and the Equator. AND be bought new in an entire vehicle costing less than the Ferrari engine alone.

I'm not defending the particular 4.3 you're talking about, but your argument is bordering on idiotic here.

Small and light, with a small engine will always be better then big and heavy with a V8 engine.

Tow a boat with your Mini.

Reallly, aren't we tired of treading the same useless arguments? Horsepower per litre is absolutely the most useless metric ever. You think people don't care about 1/4-mile times but you expect them to care about specific output? Be serious.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Superchargers add displacement. The Exige supercharger flows 62cui, I recall, so the 1.8 becomes a 2.8. The Atom supercharger flows 62cui, so the 2.0 becomes a 3.0.

So in reality small engine (2.8 - 3.0) in small car can outperform a big engine (6.0) in a big car.

Supercharge the big engine and you're just restoring the displacement gap. It's not like-for-like.


You're getting hung up on how your power is made. If you have it, why does it matter where it comes from?



Apparently he manages it just fine, as do several thousand commuters who choose motorbikes to get to work.



You know I'd swear we were talking about lap times before.

With forced induction you can fit more air in than any N/A engine could do itself by natural induction, sounds like you're making excuses now.

Edit: Well, my statement doesn't sound right either, I mean with forced induction you are forcing pre-compressed air into the engine, N/A relies on its own sucking power to get air. With the turbo/supercharger supplying that compressed air there is more oxygen/L displacement.

Hang on, the how power is made comment, that's sounds hypocritical to me. I endure all these rants about power:displacement, and yet that is the very reasoning of V8 enthusiasts, we have it, we don't care where from.

Motorbike riders where helmets, special suits, and not many are business men from what I see, most bike riders are workers in industries like construction, engineering etc. They also have a special license, does the Atom require helmets, do the owers wear special driving suits, do they need a special license?