2014 United Sports Car Championship

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Earth, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    I see it as the end of Grand Am. Why? Cost. The strength of Grand Am was that a successful person with money could enter motorsport, buy a Daytona Prototype and engine, hire drivers and go racing at the sharp end looking for overall victory. It was much cheaper than any other similar category.

    A couple of years ago, the FIA/ACO decided to cost cap LMP2. Now it is cheaper to buy and run an LMP2 in the WEC than it is to run a DP in Grand Am.

    Grand Am DP are not only much slower than LMP2's but cost more as well. Something has to give and I think it must be the DP.
     
  2. Tom.

    Tom. Premium

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    I doubt Grand Am will let that happen though, if it played out like that it would just result in a glorified ALMS which I doubt GARRA would be too happy about; they'll want some sort of impact on the series.

    I think if sportscar racing is going to thrive things needs to be simplified and streamlined. Having one big series will always be better than two struggling, it'll just be interesting to see how they can integrate the best of both series into the new competition.
     
  3. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    If ALMS dropped P1 and used P2 as the top category, it would not look like it was struggling.

    P1 is the problem. Without big manufacturer teams, it's pointless, and any manufacturer with brains would automatically look to WEC rather than ALMS.
     
  4. Tom.

    Tom. Premium

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    That's a fair point. The ELMS (which IS struggling but still) and the upcoming Asian Le Mans Series are both using P2 as the top category and it seems the way to go in these 'feeder' series for the WEC.
     
  5. Mt. Lynx

    Mt. Lynx Premium

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    Seems they will drop the p classes alltogether, and try to keep GTE. Sadly, I´m fairly certain the ACO will retract the LM 24 spot for the GTE class, if the ALMS moniker is dropped - wich it probably will be. So GTE will also die, only slightly later than the p classes.
     
  6. nitrorocks

    nitrorocks

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    I don't really like it. I would only want Daytona to be on the WEC schedule, and that's it. The care should be in separate classes like you say. But Grand-Am should be its own unique series.
     
  7. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    For those apparently worried about the NASCAR connection, keep in mind that Grand-Am is still is a seperate operating entity so its not NASCAR's decision nor does it automatically constitute severing international connections as many people seem to believe and as been said before, Grand-Am is the red-headed step child of NASCAR so they won't care nearly as much as anyone believes. Grand-Am wants to go global so cutting the ties with Le Mans is not the smartest decision and given the many conversations they've had with the FIA as well as the unexpected visit to the Silverstone WEC event, its highly doubtful thats what they'll do.

    Little known fact you guys might be interested in: Bill France (Sr I believe) helped get IMSA (The current santioning body for ALMS) off the ground. Small world.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  8. Sam48

    Sam48

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    After giving it a bit of thought, taking into consideration costs and what not, here's what I predict for the 2014 classes.

    P1, as stated above, will probably be eliminated, leaving P2 as the dominant class (Drawing MM and Dyson over). However, for DPs, I predict they will put it into its own class called something along the lines of DPC (Competitive), DPS (Spec), or simply, PC (Replacing and/or running with current PC cars if possible). This would not only be a quick integration solution, but it would also be quite fan friendly as P2 and DP are very distinguishable.

    In regards to GT, as stated above as well, I can see the entire GA GT field filling the nearly vacant GTC class. The current GT2 class of ALMS would stay as is. This is also fan friendly as the GT cars of ALMS and the GT cars of GA are also easily distinguishable as the ALMS GT cars run wider body kits and usually have a noticeable speed difference. (Not as distinguishable as DP vs P2, but much better than GT-AM and GT-PRO.)
     
  9. Jav

    Jav

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    GT-E as we know it will probably dissapear, having the cars conform to GT-X regulations wich would allow them to relatively easily go back to GT-E regs for Sebring and Le Mans. Prototypes is the big question, I really doubt they'll ditch the DP formula (I hope they do) guess we'll see everything more clear in a few weeks as more details are released.
     
  10. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    A bit of thinking by me.

    You can't call the combined series Grand AM. It's a loss of face for AMLS.

    You can't call the combined series ALMS. It's a loss of face for Grand AM.

    Solution. Call it IMSA.

    P1 is for major manufacturers. They belong in the WEC. Drop them.

    P2 is the cost effective category, cheaper and faster than DP therefore drop DP.

    P1 and DP teams can buy P2 cars, badged as required, Chevrolet can put their own name on the chassis and engine as an example.

    GTE to be the primary GT category split into Pro and Am cars.

    Grand AM GT cars to be the lower GT category to fill the grid if needed.

    By doing this, compatibility with ACO entries at Le Mans can be maintained.

    Finally, the WEC to stop being stupid and support regional race series. e.g. If racing in Europe, allow ELMS to enter under their own championship.

    If racing in the USA, allow the new series to enter the same race under their own championship.

    If racing in Asia let the new Asian Le Mans series in the same race under their own championship.

    Therefore the World Championship supports the regional series.
     
  11. Cowboys965

    Cowboys965

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    I think they should combine both GTs, big field would be nice.
     
  12. Jav

    Jav

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    I like your train of thought Tyres, but I don't think more than 1 GT class will be needed. You are forgetting that the current Grand Am GT field is in its final homologation year and from 2013 onwards they where set to go to GT-X wich are pretty much de-tuned GT-E cars built with the purpose of allowing any team to easily run both Grand Am and ALMS with the same car.
    Hopefully they will just adopt the GT-E regulations and run Pro and Am.
    On the prototype side just recently Grand Am was very interested in buying into the proposed DTM/Super GT deal for their top class, so why not just go for the LMP2 formula... So many angles and points of view! This is fun!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  13. paskowitz

    paskowitz

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    This is how I think the fields should be organized and run.

    Optional P1: P1 cars from WEC (Audi & Toyota) can partake in crossover races like Sebring. Depending on interest they could partake in more races.

    LMP (Le Mans Prototypes): Essentially P2 regulations as is. With P1 teams downgrading. This should not be a big deal for Dyson and MM (they have competed in P2). Regs should mirrow ELMC and WEC P2 specs as close as possible to open the field up for international competition compatibility. But regs would not be overly strict. This would act as the fastest class.

    DP (Daytona Prototypes): The Dayotona Prototypes as they are now. Visual and performance wise they are very different from LMP2 and would be easy for fans to distinguish. This would effectively replace ALMS's PC class. The DP's are practically spec and from what I have read their cost is reasonable so this would make a decent replacement for PC.

    GT: To me this field is the hardest to resolve. ALMS as it is, is great. Grand-Am is ok... but kinda eh. It would be great if WEC GT specs, ALMS GT specs, GA GT specs, and FIA GT3 specs were all the same... but they are not. I personally find and I think the manufacturers agree, the best spec is FIA GT3. About the only loosers would be the ALMS Corvettes and Vipers, and Grand Am Mazdas. Every other manufacturer in ALMS GT, GA GT and WEC has a car in FIA GT3. The problem is almost everyone needs a new car...

    GTC: There is no way the Porsche 911 GT3/Cup car is leaving or changing drastically. That being said, I think other manufacturers can compete in this class. Take some of the slower Grand Am GT cars and spec them to compete with the Porsches. This class needs to focus on the lowest barrier to entry to this new ALMS/GA partnership. Absolutely nothing should get in the way of that.
     
  14. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    It's all but completely confirmed. (I apologize if this has already been posted.)

    Apparently the series are supposedly going to combine all of their existing classes... but I suspect the LMPC and GTC classes from ALMS might get the cut to make room. This will be interesting.


    I'm sure there will be some changes in the long run, but for now, I suspect that we'll see the classes continue on as they are intially, just running along side each other. The Grand-Am GT and Daytona Prototypes can easily replace the LMPC and GTC categories, as they essentially provide similar costs but even more excitement (more manufacturers rather than spec). We need to remember that Grand-Am has been developing a new GX class, too, so that will be interesting to see how it fits in.

    This is how I suspect the classes will play out for now.

    LMP1: Should be reserved for WEC rounds and the like. Assuming those still happen.
    LMP2: Continues on as the fastest and most exotic regularly attending Prototypes. Possibly re-labeled simply as LMP's, dropping the 2 for non-WEC rounds to minimalize confusion.
    DP: Continues on as they are. Exciting cost-effective racing machines and extremely diverse when compared to LMP2's. Also much more visually distinct than the LMPC's which looked similar to LMP2's to the untrained eye.
    GTE: Becomes the top spec GT class. GT2 Cars continue as they are for now. Possibility of merger with Grand-Am GT class later on, however.
    GX: Remains to be seen if this will even come about now. Only the Evora GX and a Mazda Diesel Engine exist, so it's hard to know where this will fit in if it happens.
    GT: Becomes a much more exciting alternative to the current Porsche series. Cost effective American and European style GT cars racing. Possible merger with GTE later on.

    Support Races:
    Challenge Series- LMPC and GTC cars racing together.

    American DTM

    CTSCC

    But what about the track line up now? I'm kind of giddy just thinking about it! Imagine racing at Long Beach, Daytona, Laguna Seca, Indianapolis, Road Atlanta, Sebring and others all in one season in the same class! The schedule should include a whose-who of the greatest American racing tracks still in operation!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  15. vetteman24

    vetteman24

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    Here's my proposal

    6 Classes
    -LMP1 2014 ACO regs simple as that and Chevy, BMW, Ford (Cosworth) might do something with engines and such but not a full fledged LMP factory team as all three have strong GT history
    -LMP2 Baltimore just proved why it should stay
    -DP Just get rid of LMPC its pointless
    -GTE Pro and Am ACO regs keeping it simple
    -GTC or GTX depending on how GTX work next year it could be intersting but make GTC regs to mirror that of GT3

    Schedule
    Move Sebring to late March timeframe
    Daytona should keep its spot in January and become WEC race
    Keep the North America Endurance Championship and make that points race the Auto Qualifier to the 24 hours of Le Mans instead of Petite Le Mans alone
    Heres My Mock Schedule (Italics= NAEC)

    Jan-24 of Daytona
    Mar- 12 hours of Sebring
    April- Long Beach GP
    May- Laguna Seca
    May/Early June- Belle Isle
    **Summer Break/24 Hours Of Le Mans**
    July- Lime Rock Park
    Mid July- 6 Hours of The Glen
    Late July- Mosport
    Aug- Mid-Ohio
    Aug- Road America
    Sept- Montreal/Baltimore
    Sept- COTA
    Oct- Petite Le Mans
     
  16. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    Sounds crazy.. but perhaps at Le Mans in future, LMP1, LMP2, DP, and GT PRO?
     
  17. LancerEvo7

    LancerEvo7 Premium

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    I would like this. Especially with the lack of GTE-Am.
     
  18. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    ^Fixed. And Grand Am GT cars are closer to GT3 spec now aren;t they?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  19. LancerEvo7

    LancerEvo7 Premium

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    GT3 cars can be specced in to GA GT, correct.
     
  20. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    Yeah, thought so, I saw Audi R8's and Ferrari F430's when I looked at some Road America highlights. And considering that GT3 cars can be specced into GT1 cars as well, they could be tuned to GT Pro (old GT2) performance levels?
     
  21. Jav

    Jav

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    Actually, GT3 is closer to GT-E(faster for that matter). The current Grand Am GT is closer to GT4 performance wise with the big difference beign they are pretty much tube frame contraptions heavily restricted on the engine side of things.
     
  22. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    Well Fia GT1 this year has uses upgraded GT3 cars...
     
  23. LancerEvo7

    LancerEvo7 Premium

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    And Grand Am uses downgraded GT3 cars. I think that's the only way GT3 should be involved in this new series.
     
  24. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    Perhaps, sounds crazy, but DP / LMP1 / LMP2 in one series, GT cars in another?
     
  25. ITCC_Andrew

    ITCC_Andrew (Banned)

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    I don't really want to see more than two classes. Watching these races, on TV, with six classes would sorta be boring. I like watching cars battle, not flipping between classes every 2 minutes. :yuck:
     
  26. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    More of requiring more cars in classes, two LMP1's in ALMS at moment have limited entertainment value, compared to 8+ GT's.
     
  27. Jav

    Jav

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    Don't forget that this is the last homologation year for the current Grand Am GT cars, they were moving away from tube frame cars to GT-X anyways wich was supposed to attract current GT-E teams to run in Grand Am with only minor modifications.
    Currently the ESM Ferraris do it but according to them the process of converting from one class to the other is still too labor intensive, GT-X is supposed to solve this.
     
  28. IforceV8

    IforceV8

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  29. paskowitz

    paskowitz

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    After reading some tweets it looks like ALMS may have to drop all use of Le Mans in their name and classes. It also looks like ALMS prototypes may be completely out... which would kinda suck.

    #2600!
     
  30. Mac K

    Mac K

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    That would suck a lot.. Still we're all just speculating at this point.