do you guys think polyphony and turn 10 could ever collaborate?

[robbo6]

Why would it be on PC? I don't see the point in PC gaming, having to upgrade your processor and graphics card every six months doesn't make sense to me, I'm not dropping close to $400 a year to have slightly better graphics and physics.

That's only if you want to run games with EVERY detail setting on max or ultra at a resolution of 1million by 500,000 (ok so I exaggerate the resolution a bit )

And it would be CONSIDERABLy better graphics and phsyics for that price.

I can run Crysis 2 very well on a 2007 PC and only upgraded the GFX card for £100. It looks amazing and even though not everything is maxed out it's easily comparable if not better than the 360 version.

 

[axl54]

@griffith 500, OK, I'll try to explain one last time
The reviewers opinion is just that, opinion not fact. However the statement that
forza is more critically acclaimed than gt is a fact, because the critical consensus
(as can b seen on metacritic) objectively shows this to be true.
Again, only cited metacritic because i was called out for presenting opinion as fact.

 

[G24]

Despite the reviews, Forza 4 is a flop selling less than half a million in it's first debut week is disappointing

 

[Griffith500]

@griffith 500, OK, I'll try to explain one last time
The reviewers opinion is just that, opinion not fact. However the statement that
forza is more critically acclaimed than gt is a fact, because the critical consensus
(as can b seen on metacritic) objectively shows this to be true.
Again, only cited metacritic because i was called out for presenting opinion as fact.

No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as an objective review, and any collation of such reviews is no more objective than any of them is in isolation. Hence, it's not fact at all to say that Forza has "better critical acclaim" than GT. It is, however, fact to say that Forza has a higher Metacritic rating / score; what you can draw from that is anyone's guess, and depends on the exact reviews aggregated for each game.

The number scores themselves are meaningless to an individual anyway (look at the spread of user scores), and the aggregation is also flawed since the "professionals" tend to operate on different scales, meaning one site's 60% is another's 80% and so on, whilst others still only use a 5 point scale! What speak more to the individual are the actual comments and observations, arguments and reasonings in the reviews themselves; the words, not the numbers. Good luck collating those objectively.

The numbers, for those curious, are:
FM4: Critics 91 (72 reviews) / Users 79 (104 reviews)
GT5: Critics 84 (82 reviews) / Users 75 (659 reviews)

 

[Infinital-NG]

The debate between PC/Console games, is that consoles will always bring in more revenue than PC games.

Parents will have to spend less overall to keep buying their kids games. Buy one console and your options for games is simple.

You buy your kid a gaming Pc, then go buy them a new pc game, they get the game for xmas a year later after having the pc, open it up, act excited, look at system requirements and realize that they don't meet a system requirement because the computer they bought last year is outdated.

To the original question, no I don't think there would ever be a merger.

 

[axl54]

@griffith , look your completely misunderstanding my posts. I've done my best to
be clear, try reading them properly instead of warping my meanings.

 

[kimi123]

This make no sense whatsoever

Polyphony just need better planning and may be a bigger team.

 

[analog]

No, a collaboration isn't the best way to combine the best of both worlds in this case I reckon (apart from the simple fact it won't happen for many obvious reasons) as it destroys the competition element between these series and that often stagnates long term progress.
Instead I'd like to see both series going cross platform (which again won't happen) so they become direct competitors (with hopefully better games as a result) and both series could benefit from the combined market of XBox and PS3 as a lot of consumers having only one console will buy both or at least don't have to switch to 'the other side' to play a game (in short, becoming more like BF3 vs MW3 or FIFA vs PES, etc.).
But since these exclusives are aimed to sell a specific console perhaps the benefits gained from selling more games are outweighed by the loss in console sales.

 

[MoLiEG]

I'd kill to see that... but I think it won't happen... ever...

 

[GTShadowKing]

Do you see EA and Activision working together? Yeah me neither...

 

[vandaliser]

Why would the greatest car driving sim Devs collabrate with a third rate dev like turn 10 whose entire game series are build on the former? Not only that but this third rate dev in their futile effort to chase casuals (lol) decided to introduce arcadey features such as rewind and got hidden driver aids. You want Polyphony with this lot? You've got to be kidding me. Even if Polyphony were an independent studio it would sound ridiculous

Turn 10 belongs to the group that makes shift, grid and the like. No amount of Metacritic and dumb ass reviewers will change this fact

Polphony only collabrates with companies like Citroen, Nissan, Mercedes, Toyota and Red Bull.

 

[GTShadowKing]

Why would the greatest car driving sim Devs collabrate with a third rate dev like turn 10 whose entire game series are build on the former? Not only that but this third rate dev in their futile effort to chase casuals (lol) decided to introduce arcadey features such as rewind and got hidden driver aids. You want Polyphony with this lot? You've got to be kidding me. Even if Polyphony were an independent studio it would sound ridiculous

Turn 10 belongs to the group that makes shift, grid and the like. No amount of Metacritic and dumb ass reviewers will change this fact

Polphony only collabrates with companies like Citroen, Nissan, Mercedes, Toyota and Red Bull.

But I want to bowling on Top Gear Test Track

 

[Spagetti69]

Hmm some flame baiting eh.

Don't think turn 10 would want to collaborate. They would at least want another title out this decade. Lol.

 

[Tornado]

Why would the greatest car driving sim Devs collabrate with a third rate dev like turn 10 whose entire game series are build on the former? Not only that but this third rate dev in their futile effort to chase casuals (lol) decided to introduce arcadey features such as rewind and got hidden driver aids. You want Polyphony with this lot? You've got to be kidding me. Even if Polyphony were an independent studio it would sound ridiculous

Turn 10 belongs to the group that makes shift, grid and the like. No amount of Metacritic and dumb ass reviewers will change this fact

Polphony only collabrates with companies like Citroen, Nissan, Mercedes, Toyota and Red Bull.

Was wondering when we would see your unique brand of "logic" in this thread.


Thanks for the laugh. Never fail to surprise.

 

[vandaliser]

Was wondering when we would see your unique brand of "logic" in this thread.


Thanks for the laugh. Never fail to surprise.

forzaplanet is that way ------------------->

 

[Tornado]

Oh come now. You can do better than that.

 

[Traviizter]

Pfftno.
/thread

Seriously though, very slim, if even possible chance. Sony and Microsoft do not gel, so T10 and PD wouldn't ever happen, as great as it could be.

 

[Tenacious D]

read my post, then tenacious d's response then PLEASE try to use your brain.
There's good and bad reviewers out there and they are all subjective, but when taken as a whole these opinions ARE (agree with them or not) the critical response to the
game, and it is a fact that the Forza series has surpassed gt CRITICALLY a long time
ago.
I cited metacritic because i was called out for presenting opinion as fact.

So you present a whole gob of opinions as fact, and expect that to be any better?

Let me spell it out for you one more time.

I have trouble racing a car aggressively in every Forza game. With more difficulty than I do any Gran Turismo game. Or every PC game I've ever played. So something isn't connecting between me and Forza 4 that's critical to the core element of the game: racing a car around a track better than my competitors. In forza, I'm not just fighting the bots or online racers, I'm fighting the whole game, and that takes away a serious amount of fun factor for me.

Reviews on Metacritic mean what? That I'm wrong, and I just need to discover the magic technique to make F4 easy as pie? Or a dream to race? Or not a fight with the entire T10 version of reality?

Actually, opinions mean squat unless they agree with the player's opinion. And I'll tell you again, but in a different way, that F4 is a very slick package. The graphics are exceptional, even compared to the pinnacle of graphics in a game, GT5. The car selection is excellent, they look close to photo-real, they all sound louder than Hell, and with around 500 cars, most of the bases are covered. The track selection is marvelous, and the detail of the courses is outstanding. The car modding capability is unmatched right now, and Forza's livery editor is a dream come true for car artists. On top of that, the Auction House and Storefront give you - assuming you pay for Live - the ability to buy cars, liveries, even decals and number plaques from various racing leagues to trick up your race car well. Online is supposed to be great this time.

But having said that, then the rubber has to meet the road, and you have to race. And Forza's version of car feel and physics is not universally acclaimed. Most Forza fans love it, some gamers of different stripes love it. But there is a vast mob of us who have issues with it. A bunch of us flat out hate Forza because of the flavor of its physics. This is just as true as with Gran Turismo 5. So where does that leave us?

With our personal preference, and that's about it. And right now, I prefer some more time in GT5. Forza 4, and my personal struggle with it, will wait for another day.

And once again:

Polyphony Digital + Live For Speed Team + Turn 10's modding/livery editor = best racing game EVAR.

 

[Camaroyenko]

The heck is Turn 10?


All of a sudden today I've been hearing about it but I have no clue what it is...


EDIT-LOL just looked it up, they make Forza? I laughed when I found that out and saw the topic's title!

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's turning gamers into real racers. Forza has AutoVista.

GT has GT Academy. I think GT still has the "woah" factor over Forza.

That's the marketing spin. The reality is that they're getting people who already had a good deal of real-life racing experience the attention they deserved. Bryan for example is/was well known regionally. Yeah, he was also silly fast in GT5 (he has been since I've known him back in GT2 days), but he wasn't strictly a "gamer turned racer".

Not trying to downplay GT Academy at all, because it is a fantastic opportunity for anybody, and it benefits all parties involved. But GT alone does not magically transform someone into a legitimate real-life racer.

So you present a whole gob of opinions as fact, and expect that to be any better?

Let me spell it out for you one more time.

I have trouble racing a car aggressively in every Forza game. With more difficulty than I do any Gran Turismo game. Or every PC game I've ever played. So something isn't connecting between me and Forza 4 that's critical to the core element of the game: racing a car around a track better than my competitors. In forza, I'm not just fighting the bots or online racers, I'm fighting the whole game, and that takes away a serious amount of fun factor for me.

Reviews on Metacritic mean what? That I'm wrong, and I just need to discover the magic technique to make F4 easy as pie? Or a dream to race? Or not a fight with the entire T10 version of reality?

Well now, this is odd - GT is preferable because it's easier, now?

Other than the two weeks of FM3 prior to 4's release, I was raised on GT. I've been able to transfer over to T10's physics pretty well, to the point I'm usually in the top 1-3 percent of leaderboards. The physics are slightly different from GT (particularly the tire model), but if you've spent a lot of time playing GT5 on the more realistic road-based rubber, it's not that big of a transition. FM4 probably is the more punishing of the two when it comes to mistakes, though; I can slightly miss an apex in GT5 due to late braking and still salvage the turn, with all aids off in FM4 if I enter even a bit too hot I will plow. Drifting, for those so inclined, is also much harder in FM4.

...

On-topic: Could they, if not under the watchful eyes of their respective owners? I see Analog's reasoning that it would cause stagnation - really, with the combined might of PD/T10, what would console competition do? On the other hand, there are definitely aspects where each team could learn from the other. Sure, PD's done well with doing all their physics work in-house, but FM4 shows how beneficial it is to have Pirelli's huge amount of tire experience worked into the tire model. The livery editor is pretty powerful, but I think it has the possibility for even more variety if it adopted something similar to Little Big Planet's sticker approach. Both companies can do fantasy tracks pretty well (my nod goes to PD, though), and they both do really seem to just love all things automobile. But yeah, it'll never happen, for reasons already mentioned in the thread.

 

[Chad D.]

I'd like to hope for the same (in years past anyways, now it would be pointless) for MLB: the Show and 2K Baseball to combine and make one great game, before, 2K had player customization, graphics, stats and records, stuff that The Show never had, however, the past few years The Show has added player customization, better graphics (better than 2K anyways), and better stats (somewhat), the only thing that they seem to refuse to do is add more offical records, which would give a player more to stive for IMO.

But yeah, that aside, I highly doubt that would ever happen, and I've never liked the physics of Forza, customization and engine swaps however, I have taken a liking to, but then, so has everyone else.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well now, this is odd - GT is preferable because it's easier, now?

Well, maybe I do prefer the sim-cade games like Gran Turismo, GTR, Live For speed... wait a minute...

But seriously, I did neglect to repeat what I'd said before, that Forza does do some things as good as a PC sim, if not better. But not everything, obviously, or everyone would at least like it if it was just like driving a car. Just like GT5, it does some things right, some things not so right. The car dynamics in GT5 are rather placid and stable, unless you turn off all the aids. But even then, the cars behave quite a bit like real cars in many respects, and don't flip out for no apparent reason. As with cars in the GTRs or Live For Speed, the cars more or less behave in ways I expect cars to behave.

Turn all the aids off in Forza, and every car becomes a snarling beast, much as every car sounds. However, I find them to be unrealistically unstable, since I have to fight them every step of the way even with all aids on. Well, ABS might as well not even be there, as it's not really doing anything. Brush the brake pedal, and the wheels lock up, ABS on or off. The kinetics of the cars are marvelous, the way they rock on their suspensions or collide with objects in the race field. But the driving behaviors are strange, sort of realistic, sort of... not. At least for me, but I'm far from alone on this.

This is one race series you have to play yourself, because it's just too unique. In many ways, GT5 feels like a decent PC sim. Forza 4 just feels like a highly matured Forza, or Need For Speed.

 

[Scaff]

This is one race series you have to play yourself, because it's just too unique. In many ways, GT5 feels like a decent PC sim. Forza 4 just feels like a highly matured Forza, or Need For Speed.

I feel totally the opposite in this regard and in regard to all FM4's cars being 'snarling beasts' with the aids off.

Now I do want to actually have a good discussion on this, the problem is that every time I reply you seem to miss the post and migrate to another thread. So for the sake of brevity I will simply quote my last couple of replies to your take on the difficult handling of cars in FM4.

First, I think you might be overstating my post a bit.

If it was that single post, then maybe. However you 've posted numerous times on this topic, for example...

Specifically, my cars of all types want to keep turning through turns, and I have to jerk the wheel or stab the brakes to make them stop, just like in Forza 1 and 2.

I'm afraid a video wouldn't reveal much, other than my turns looking a little twitchy and nervous. But I'll fire up F4 briefly and see what I used.

• 2011 VW Fox, with sports tires
• '73 BMW 2002 Turbo, stock
• '09 SEAT Ibiza Cupra, street brakes
• '85 Toyota Trueno, racing brakes, suspension and tires, Forza aero kit front and back
• '94 NISSAN 240SX SE, racing brakes, suspension and tires, Forza aero front, something stylish rear
• '09 VW Scirocco GT, street brakes and tires
• '08 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X, street tires
• '97 Mitsubishi GTO, sports brakes, street tires
• '10 VW Golf R street brakes and tires
• '08 BMW Z4, racing brakes, suspension and tires
• '90 Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5, racing brakes, suspension and tires
• '02 Chevy Corvette C5, racing suspension and brakes, street tires, Forza aero kit front and back
• '06 Chevy Corvette C6, racing suspension and brakes, Forza aero kit front and back
• '04 Audi TT, racing brakes, suspension and tires, Forza aero kit front and back

The only adjustments I made were suspension camber increased slightly, like 0.9- front and 0.7- rear, and brakes were adjusted to 65% pressure to allow me to disable ABS. Tracks are... well, every track, every type of turn except the very tightest. If you have any advice, I'm open.

...and with comments such as the ones in bold I'm sure you can understand why people are under the impression that its every car and every corner.

So taking your posting history on the subject into account (rather than just one post) I don't think I'm overstating it at all.

Watching the speedo closely as I dare, I can see it getting up to 52mph or so in my cars lately, various rides such as a late model Mustang, Corvette, Audi R8, Gallardo, Ferrari F430, mostly with racing tires and suspension.

Given that a F1 car generates 1.8 g and does 62mph through Luffield I think speeds in the region of 50mph - 55mph are more than realistic for a car with racing suspension and slicks.

BTW - a quick bit of maths (MPH2 = 15 * G * R) would have 50mph equating to 1.17g and 55mph 1.42g, which is more than realistic given a car with racing suspension and racing slicks. 52 mph would be 1.25g. (all peak figures)

Keep in mind that the track at Luffield is quite wide so a margin for error does exists, but the maths gives it a radius of approx 142ft

However, I did say that other than a slight camber, my suspensions are stock. I have no doubt that if you make the suspensions as stiff as can be, they might feel like they've been replaced by steel rods.

As is the TT in my first video and that doesn't suffer from oversteer or wobble?

I did say that I would appreciate any setting suggestions, but either you missed that or forgot about it, because I haven't heard back on that.

My reply was in the form of the video and my opinion is that you don't need to reduce oversteer with the stock settings as I don't get any (quite the opposite).

I did say that I use the MS FFB wheel, and that may be a big factor because no one can go to the local cheap store and pick up a Fanatec in the Americas. Or the accessories to properly use it. And it's definitely not a bargain to say the least, nor to mention how long it can take to ship.

I use the MS wheel and the controller, so nothing fancy here, nor any problems that you describe.

I also did finally post some videos of my own in my storefront a few days ago, which will of course have all the views and telemetry for you to cross examine at your pleasure if you download them into your 360. The nick is Nigel Fox. Unfortunately the official Forza site is so mucked up, I'll have to have a mod sort out giving me access to my old account.

I will have a look for your videos, in regard to the Forza site I've not had any issues myself, but I do recall that you have mentioned having problems in the past with FM3.

I also did finally post some videos of my own in my storefront a few days ago, which will of course have all the views and telemetry for you to cross examine at your pleasure if you download them into your 360. The nick is Nigel Fox. Unfortunately the official Forza site is so mucked up, I'll have to have a mod sort out giving me access to my old account.

I've had a look at the replays you have posted, and given that the cars in question are an LFA, DBR9 and Falcon, I've not seen anything like them oversteering all the time and nor does the telemetry seem to back that up.

All three are extremely powerful RWD cars and even on racing slicks are going to oversteer on slower corner exits (which is just about the only time I've seen oversteer on the replays) if you open the throttle too quickly.

I would ask that others take a look at these replays and let me know what their thoughts are, because these haven't helped me at all.

TD - would it be possible for you to pop up a replay of the TT at Luffield as this the same one you will find on my storefront (ScaffGTP will find it for you), as I think a comparison is needed of the same car and corner combo.

Scaff

 

[Tenacious D]

Scaff, this is simply evidence that not everyone agrees with the awesomeness in Forza 4. I know this is a bit OT, but I do think it ties in with the subject of the two games and the perspective of their respective teams.

I hadn't touched the demo because the F3 demo was a different build from the final game, so I had no preconceptions. When I first fired up F4, it throws everyone into a race with a Ferrari on their Swiss Alps course, auto tranny and all aids on. And it was fantastic! I was sorely impressed, and was eager to get into it.

And then the story went as it does with all my Forza experiences. Turn all aids off, and the tame F and E Class cars are manageable, and rather fun to throw around the track. But as you get into higher classes, the behavior becomes more arcane and you have to get schooled on what Turn 10's version of real life physics are. I don't know why the opening race was such a blast, so intuitive, and the game itself is quite different, and I'm going to bypass the bot behavior because that's a whole nuther kettle of fish.

Now, this is my experience, but it's fairly common. You're the only person around who I recall saying that it's just like real life or any PC sim you've raced. For whatever reason, you grok this game like you made it, but a bunch of us here just don't. I don't know what to tell you, and I'm taking a Forza break for a while because I've just been able to enjoy GT5 for the past few days. Besides, I'd rather enjoy racing for a change, rather than arm wrestling with the whole universe in Forza, not to mention those idiot bots.

 

[Scaff]

Now, this is my experience, but it's fairly common. You're the only person around who I recall saying that it's just like real life or any PC sim you've raced. For whatever reason, you grok this game like you made it, but a bunch of us here just don't. I don't know what to tell you, and I'm taking a Forza break for a while because I've just been able to enjoy GT5 for the past few days. Besides, I'd rather enjoy racing for a change, rather than arm wrestling with the whole universe in Forza, not to mention those idiot bots.

Actually it doesn't appear to be that common at all and I certainly don't recall saying its "just like real life" either. What I have said is that I have not had to adapt my driving from my own track experience in either GT5 or FM4, which is quite a different thing, and I'm not alone in saying that (Slip has said exactly the same in this very thread).

As for banging on like I made it, nothing could be further from the truth, however it does seem as if you are not interested in an actual discussion at all. Its one thing to make claims as bold as the ones you have (the chronically oversteering TT springs to mid), however any evidence regarding it seems lacking and my own (freely available) tests with the same car don't back it up. Neither do your own replays, in which 500+ bhp RWD cars are seen to oversteer on the exit of slower corners - not a massive surprise in terms of behaviour and remarkably similar to what happens in GT5 with the same or similar cars.

I'm just going to come out and say it, it appears as if you are jumping from thread to thread making the same claims without any form of validation. Now if these were simply opinion based (such as a dislike of the tracks, don't see the point in Autovista, etc) then that's not a problem. However a factual claim that pretty much all cars oversteer all the time is a little different.

I'm also fairly certain that if someone was doing the same in regard to GT5 you would want to discuss it, particularly if the same statement was being repeated across different threads.

Scaff

 

[robbo6]

You buy your kid a gaming Pc, then go buy them a new pc game, they get the game for xmas a year later after having the pc, open it up, act excited, look at system requirements and realize that they don't meet a system requirement because the computer they bought last year is outdated.

no no no, as I've explained several times this is complete load of BUNK!! To say that after 12 months a PC suddenly becomes unable to play a game is utter Utter UTTER tosh!! I'm running a PC with CPU from 2007 and can play games and it looks just as good as 360 and PS3 (if not slightly better in actual fact), plus the advantages of mods etc, I have heavily modded Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas so that both games are MUCH better than on release...can a console game say the same thing?

Granted it's not quite as simple as a console but it's NO WHERE near as crap an experience as some people state.

 

[speedthrill]

is totally out of the question...

T10 hurt Kaz tooo much, wayyyyyyyy tooo much, by constantly speaking of GT instead of Forza on the E3 event when forza3 came out.

Every sentence was a killer one directed to gt...
If you know Kaz a bit, he would never talk about any other game at all...

So unthinkable that they would collabarate, btw, i even think T10 doesn't deserve it!

And to add to the one just posting above me. Soooo true, i'm running xp even with I7 920, 2 yrs old:

Rise of flight:

Does this look outdated???

 

[Infinital-NG]

I was speaking in generalities about the pc gaming hardware and new games released.

Simple point is in regards to a PC game, is that game developers would probably want to release a game on a console versus PC. More people will buy console games versus PC games. Therefore more money for the developer.

 

[robbo6]

I was speaking in generalities about the pc gaming hardware and new games released.

Simple point is in regards to a PC game, is that game developers would probably want to release a game on a console versus PC. More people will buy console games versus PC games. Therefore more money for the developer.

PC games are easily scaleable to run on many different Specs. Like I say I run many new PC games on 2007 processor tech, only did a £100 graphics card recently and only then because my old one developed a fault. Before it went wrong I had Mass Effect 2 running and looking WAY better than the 360 version. And now with a new gfx card I've managed to up a few settings to boot.

also don't forget MOST games get dumbed down quite significantly for consoles. But it clearly is financially more viable. But just because something is popular doesn't make it better.

 

[yoman297]

If they just wouldn't kill each other first.