Gran Turismo 7 “Power Pack” Paid DLC Now Available: New Races Including Endurance Events, Qualifying, and “Sophy 3.0”

[RazorSharkz]

So after getting about halfway through the Power Pack and feeling like I have definitely got my money's worth. The only things I'd really like added are Points Based Championships and Multi-Class racing, at least for the endurance races. Really cool addition to the game imo

 

[mynameis66]

You've got to open the GT Menu/Options on the top left via the main screen/world map. There you see under...

Text Settings
Skip Conversations Using Cancel: Choose whether or not to allow the cancel button to be used to skip conversations with characters.

Thats why i couldnt find then under controller settings.Many thanks.👍

 

[art3mis]

I am 1.5 laps into the 8 hours spa. I started dead last. 17, 18, 19 are already 42+seconds back.

Explain to me again how this crap is balanced? Nobody should be almost a minute slower regardless of car and setup.

It's all scripted. The slow cars are always slow, fast is always fast, there is no "AI" sophy there is only lines of hardcoded values.

 

[Monkey Man]

Thats why i couldnt find then under controller settings.Many thanks.👍

I did say the Options menu... twice.

Glad you got it sorted mate. Rock on!

 

[art3mis]

I am 1.5 laps into the 8 hours spa. I started dead last. 17, 18, 19 are already 42+seconds back.

Explain to me again how this crap is balanced? Nobody should be almost a minute slower regardless of car and setup.

It's all scripted. The slow cars are always slow, fast is always fast, there is no "AI" sophy there is only lines of hardcoded values.

Gave up on spa, swapped to N24 instead. Vastly superior track to drive by my self for 20 hours lol

 

[ScottPuss20]

With the addition of the Supra GT Road Car, the chances of this car returning has most definitely increased:

 

[mynameis66]

I did say the Options menu... twice.

Glad you got it sorted mate. Rock on!

No worries.I did go to the options on the top left corner but I was looking for the controller bindings not the text option. 👍

 

[BradleyLove]

I am 1.5 laps into the 8 hours spa. I started dead last. 17, 18, 19 are already 42+seconds back.

Explain to me again how this crap is balanced? Nobody should be almost a minute slower regardless of car and setup.

It's all scripted. The slow cars are always slow, fast is always fast, there is no "AI" sophy there is only lines of hardcoded values.

It’s weird cos I do see moments of Sophyness, I’ve been on the receiving end of some really decent overtakes into corners as an example. But yes, slow cars are always slow and vice-versa, and I don’t often see Sophy make overtakes on each other either.

I wonder, at a simple level, how it’s implemented behind the scenes. Is each car allocated a specific % of Sophyness? Does the grid range from 50% to 90% Sophyness, as an example? What would happen if that range was tightened up a lot?

 

[Ze Rui Silva]

Finally, managed to get a win in the 120% car at Spa 8H endurance race!
Luckily, it didn't rain once - Serrano and Lopez in the rain are so quick compared to me (and fuel with them on the rain is better).
11 Laps stints on softs until the final one (mediums, full tank, zero risks haha)
- Probably without rain i could win doing all stints on mediums - 15 lap stints -, but resolved to go full speed from the start!

A race that i will never touch again!

P.S: Man of culture, doing my best lap in the right number, haha

 

[art3mis]

It’s weird cos I do see moments of Sophyness, I’ve been on the receiving end of some really decent overtakes into corners as an example. But yes, slow cars are always slow and vice-versa, and I don’t often see Sophy make overtakes on each other either.

I wonder, at a simple level, how it’s implemented behind the scenes. Is each car allocated a specific % of Sophyness? Does the grid range from 50% to 90% Sophyness, as an example? What would happen if that range was tightened up a lot?

This has also been my experience! I have been asking myself if it's not on purpose. OK so bear with me for a few. PD rightfully recognizes that the playerbase for GT7 ranges from the 1% of the 1% sim racers looking to make a living all the way down to the kid that got GT7 for Christmas and has never played a racing game in their entire life.

Both those sets of players might buy the DLC yeah? The races there need to be "competitive" at all levels so each race with say 16+ cars will have tiers that each AI driver falls into.

You'll have 1-2 in the fastest tier. The one that should provide adequate competition for the upper end of the player base.
Then you get another tier with 3-4 drivers in it. That's the "I can mostly win when I want but want stiffer competition" players.
Below that there's another 3-4 drivers where it's hard enough that the average "been playing a year or so kiddo" can hang with and also give them something to strive for.
And finally the slowest cars on the grid are there to provide competition for the brand new players.

I'm trying to think of the DLC as something PD had to develop for everyone not just for me. I'm finding joy in the places where it exists and ignoring the places where, for me, it doesn't.

I spent about 3 hours last night pounding around the Nurburgring for the GT3 endurance and I could write about how the AI sucks or that I'm super far ahead but instead I'll say I love the way GT7 drives. I love that the smoke for the bonfires around the track is dynamic.
I love the way the light glints off of the damp track surface as the rain starts to end and the sun comes back out.
I really enjoy that the AI and I can lean on each other where appropriate without the AI being a brick wall that can't move and without the game treating me as if I'm a balloon the AI can push around.

Just because it's not perfect for me doesn't mean it's not great content for someone else. I realized I've been complaining about this content since it came out and that's less fun than watching other people be excited about it.

 

[Nakano219]

I just did the tuning battle race at Maggiore, and I'm surprised by how much Sophy treats kerbs like lava.

I was looking out for it, because Maggiore's game-defined track limits are very silly - it's normally "two wheels on the paint inside the kerbs". So I wanted to see if Sophy was abusing that. But not only was it not, it didn't run out onto the kerbs at all, even in ways that are compliant to more standard track limit rules, like running two wheels on the exits. It just wouldn't touch them.

 

[OldandSlow]

I was running the 2-lapper at the ‘Ring. Started in 10th, got up to 5th by the second turn. About 2 minutes in, I was catching the leaders and was ready to pass for 3rd when the 1st and 2nd cars collided, sending the 2nd place car off.

This caused a yellow to come out. I hit the hooks to avoid passing under the yellow. I was promptly rear-ended. Hard. This punted me off head first into a barrier. By the time I got back on track, I was in 15th place.

After another minute, I decided to hang it up.

 

[jrbabbitt]

I was running the 2-lapper at the ‘Ring. Started in 10th, got up to 5th by the second turn. About 2 minutes in, I was catching the leaders and was ready to pass for 3rd when the 1st and 2nd cars collided, sending the 2nd place car off.

This caused a yellow to come out. I hit the hooks to avoid passing under the yellow. I was promptly rear-ended. Hard. This punted me off head first into a barrier. By the time I got back on track, I was in 15th place.

After another minute, I decided to hang it up.

"Oh that's gonna hurt..."

 

[snowgt]

I just did the tuning battle race at Maggiore, and I'm surprised by how much Sophy treats kerbs like lava.

I was looking out for it, because Maggiore's game-defined track limits are very silly - it's normally "two wheels on the paint inside the kerbs". So I wanted to see if Sophy was abusing that. But not only was it not, it didn't run out onto the kerbs at all, even in ways that are compliant to more standard track limit rules, like running two wheels on the exits. It just wouldn't touch them.

I noticed that as well, and I suspect that was one method employed when training Sophy to make it less perfect. Otherwise it would have done everything Sophy 1.0 did (which, if I recall correctly, included some major corner cutting).

Maybe another aspect of this is, that in this current state of Sophy's training, i.e. it is not done to the n-th degree where it becomes unbeatable and it wasn't necessarily trained on the specific vehicles it is supposed to drive, staying away from the kerbs adds an element of safety that is needed, in order to avoid upsetting cars in unforeseen ways.

 

[Voodoovaj]

It’s weird cos I do see moments of Sophyness, I’ve been on the receiving end of some really decent overtakes into corners as an example. But yes, slow cars are always slow and vice-versa, and I don’t often see Sophy make overtakes on each other either.

It's pretty clear that the Power Pack continues the PD philosophy of "top 3 guarantee", which exists throughout the single player. Also, and I think this is going somewhat ignored, the "save game" function resets everything. If you use the save game, you aren't leaving people in the dust. You won't make it several laps ahead of 2nd or 3rd place. I do about 1/2 hour chunks and go back to the races when the mood strikes.

If you want to avoid the top 3 guarantee, you have to go to custom races.

I wonder, at a simple level, how it’s implemented behind the scenes. Is each car allocated a specific % of Sophyness? Does the grid range from 50% to 90% Sophyness, as an example? What would happen if that range was tightened up a lot?

You can see it at work if you use the unofficial Sophy supported cars in a one make race.

Use the bypass method here --> https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...f-incompatible-cars-1-65.431406/post-14485022

They basically fight around YOU. They try to keep pace with the you, so if you are 20th, 19th and 18th will fight harder. As you make your way up the field, the cars that you've passed seem to somewhat give up on the racing, while the challenge from the higher ranked Sophy cars increases. This is, of course, when the weak boost feature is on. Oddly, the unofficial cars seem to work better than the officially supported cars, so there might be some degree of nerfing.

With the Power Pack, it is indeed forced so that you aren't lapping completely by yourself. Instead, you are passing back markers. I wished they would simply allow emergent behaviour to prevail, but I will bet my life that some executive producer has veto'd any possibility of that.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I wished they would simply allow emergent behaviour to prevail, but I will bet my life that some executive producer has veto'd any possibility of that.

Let’s be fair here, they have AI that can make racing it futile. The problem is how to make it believable in the mistakes it makes and the racing it tries to do.

Factor in that in sports mode the lap deviation in times is massive, someone recently asked how were the top times :24s when they are doing :33s and honestly even with auto, all the assists and a .5 pen I couldn’t go slow enougH to get a :33 so clearly the AI balancing is aimed wide not deep sadly when that level of difference is what they have to design for.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Let’s be fair here, they have AI that can make racing it futile. The problem is how to make it believable in the mistakes it makes and the racing it tries to do.

Factor in that in sports mode the lap deviation in times is massive, someone recently asked how were the top times :24s when they are doing :33s and honestly even with auto, all the assists and a .5 pen I couldn’t go slow enougH to get a :33 so clearly the AI balancing is aimed wide not deep sadly when that level of difference is what they have to design for.

I said emergent, not impossibly difficult. Emergent simply means that you give Sophy some directives and then let the chips fall where they may. You don't have to set Sophy to be super powered for it to be more fun for the player. There's a million ways to do it and the player would never know it.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I said emergent, not impossibly difficult. Emergent simply means that you give Sophy some directives and then let the chips fall where they may. You don't have to set Sophy to be super powered for it to be more fun for the player. There's a million ways to do it and the player would never know it.

The problem is how do you make it believably slow with pace divergence in the player base that is 10 seconds plus, I mean that’s more than one second a corner…

 

[vcx]

At last I finished LM24h race. Race started and after 4 hours rainy weather made the race more harder. I drove 9 hours under non-stop rain conditions and even midnight time rain was hard too. Anyways it was fun for me and a great experience. Now only 1 race left, Nordschleife24h. I hope i will finish this race too.

 

[Fezzik]

Still working my way through, only doing a race or two a day. 1 pepper cars only and the difficulty fluctuation is just wild.

DTM - battle all race, all the way to the line

Ice race - about 6 to 8 secs a lap faster (and I’m useless on that track)

 

[Voodoovaj]

The problem is how do you make it believably slow with pace divergence in the player base that is 10 seconds plus, I mean that’s more than one second a corner…

If you turn on the braking zone indicator, you can see what Sophy is doing at the moment. When we play with the custom race and the weak boost, Sophy is braking right at the beginning of the braking zone or at the last possible moment (and probably quickly swapping to a softer compound). In the Power Pack, especially with the endurance races, Sophy back markers are are braking well in advance of the braking zone and crawling around the corners. Obviously, this isn't what people want, nor is it ideal.

People want the AI to go faster, not for themselves to get a slower car (even though that is what happens in real life). So, at the risk of giving PD free advice, what is needed are different (hidden) tire compounds. So, give Sophy 2 steps less tire than the player on easy, 1 step less on medium, and equal (or even +1/2 step) on difficult, and add another "professional" difficulty (3 peppers) where Sophy gets at least 1 step more tire. Change only the grip, not the endurance of the tire, and hide these difference from the player. The player will never know. It will simply appear that the AI is either better or worse.

Swapping the tire compound behind the scenes also gets rid of the "rubber band" effect. Set up the car and let the race play out. The AI would never need to speed up, or slow down in the straights. The tire behaviour would drive it all. This is an easy test in custom race. Throw Sophy on RH tires, and then swap your own car to SS or SM tires.

 

[Siasi0]

I’m making the 8 hour spa right now. I qualified 6th. In the race, for 3 laps i was first, but i crashed two times on eau rouge and now i have a 20 second loss to the two yellow mclarens.

 

[Lomic]

Did the two 300HP tuning battles at GV and MP, with the Lancer, just walked over competition. While the other branch of that tree (with Big Willow for example) was much more difficult.

(first) quali lap at GV was +4s faster than 2nd, and 6s faster at MP. Finished 20s before 2nd at GV and same at MP.

Difficulty is all over the place on this DLC, a bit annoying.

 

[BradleyLove]

It's pretty clear that the Power Pack continues the PD philosophy of "top 3 guarantee", which exists throughout the single player. Also, and I think this is going somewhat ignored, the "save game" function resets everything. If you use the save game, you aren't leaving people in the dust. You won't make it several laps ahead of 2nd or 3rd place. I do about 1/2 hour chunks and go back to the races when the mood strikes.

If you want to avoid the top 3 guarantee, you have to go to custom races.

You can see it at work if you use the unofficial Sophy supported cars in a one make race.

Use the bypass method here --> https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...f-incompatible-cars-1-65.431406/post-14485022

They basically fight around YOU. They try to keep pace with the you, so if you are 20th, 19th and 18th will fight harder. As you make your way up the field, the cars that you've passed seem to somewhat give up on the racing, while the challenge from the higher ranked Sophy cars increases. This is, of course, when the weak boost feature is on. Oddly, the unofficial cars seem to work better than the officially supported cars, so there might be some degree of nerfing.

With the Power Pack, it is indeed forced so that you aren't lapping completely by yourself. Instead, you are passing back markers. I wished they would simply allow emergent behaviour to prevail, but I will bet my life that some executive producer has veto'd any possibility of that.

I think most folks here at GTP would agree that custom race Sophy 2.0, with boost set to weak, is a much more compelling on-track racing experience, especially given you can drive pretty much any car you like. Sophy 3.0 might be able to pit, but the Power Pack racing doesn’t feel as alive for me. It genuinely feels like a slightly better regular AI, which then makes me feel for the PS4 folks who don’t even get the option to experience the Power Pack “because it needs Sophy.”

Emojis aside, I think Sophy 2.0 is mostly great. PP’s Sophy 3.0 isn’t worth the version number and, for me, is notably worse.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Sophy is a terrorist

 

[art3mis]

Sophy is a terrorist

That's a perfect example of what I've been talking about. The AI at Le Mans is 100% scripted on the Mulsanne at Le Mans in the Group C Endurance. You were occupying the area of track the AI is "supposed" to be on at that point on the road and they were going to move there come hell or high water.

It's really funny when they get to those points and are side by side because both cars just start vibrating. Sometimes they take each other out too

My favorite is when they vibrate and pit themselves on my nose. Like c'mon man idk how hard you cheat on speed it's not hard to drive in a straight line lololol

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

That's a perfect example of what I've been talking about. The AI at Le Mans is 100% scripted on the Mulsanne at Le Mans in the Group C Endurance. You were occupying the area of track the AI is "supposed" to be on at that point on the road and they were going to move there come hell or high water.

It's really funny when they get to those points and are side by side because both cars just start vibrating. Sometimes they take each other out too

My favorite is when they vibrate and pit themselves on my nose. Like c'mon man idk how hard you cheat on speed it's not hard to drive in a straight line lololol

It feels to me like Sophy 2.0 was better than the current one, being able to drive the offroad tracks and in the rain is nice now but it seems like the pace is worse than before (the power pack relies on handicapping the player through underpowered cars) and it has more of these dumb moments, you see it spinning itself out quite often too.

 

[art3mis]

It feels to me like Sophy 2.0 was better than the current one, being able to drive the offroad tracks and in the rain is nice now but it seems like the pace is worse than before (the power pack relies on handicapping the player through underpowered cars) and it has more of these dumb moments, you see it spinning itself out quite often too.

I'm doing the N24 right now and I just had the pleasure of watching 12th drive his Viper straight into the gravel at Pflazgarten 1. Like seriously did not brake at all. Looked like he was trying to keep ahead of 13th & 14th that were right on his tail heading down through
that section and the AI decided that "goes fast" was more important than "makes corner"

 

[equalitus]

Let’s be fair here, they have AI that can make racing it futile. The problem is how to make it believable in the mistakes it makes and the racing it tries to do.

Factor in that in sports mode the lap deviation in times is massive, someone recently asked how were the top times :24s when they are doing :33s and honestly even with auto, all the assists and a .5 pen I couldn’t go slow enougH to get a :33 so clearly the AI balancing is aimed wide not deep sadly when that level of difference is what they have to design for.

That's because PD won't let us players decide the BHP or power/weight ratio or tires AI Sophy uses. While the coding & core function of Sophy might be impossible to tune from say 70% of full speed to 100% full speed, but the other parameters can easily be changed, like hp, weight & tires. But PD won't let us.

 

[GTboyz]

I'm doing the N24 right now and I just had the pleasure of watching 12th drive his Viper straight into the gravel at Pflazgarten 1. Like seriously did not brake at all. Looked like he was trying to keep ahead of 13th & 14th that were right on his tail heading down through
that section and the AI decided that "goes fast" was more important than "makes corner"

Or maybe the driver got sleepy, it's N24 after all.

For realism purpose