- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
I think the sounds are poo but the game is great.
Is that ok?
Is that ok?
GT5 Sound Thread
- Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
- 5,638 comments
- 596,781 views
- 8,725
That was a rather mature response, way to go.
It's amazing that every time someone voices some type of displeasure with the game or one of it's features (whether it be a pre-release demo build or the actual game), lo and behold someone comes to the rescue and will, to the death, defend Gran Turismo as if it were one of their own children. Whether it's "Well, have you ever considered [insert random excuse here]" or "Maybe they [insert random excuse here]" or, and the two of these happen to be my all-time favorites "GT is in a class all by itself" or "You need to play it at home on your TV with a surround sound system". That's not to mention all of the various digs toward Forza (for little to absolutely no reason) or any other games that has anything remotely superior to GT. "It's an arcade game, so they don't compare." "GT has more stuff, GT has better graphics, etc, etc, etc..."
It's all just borderline stupid now. So, to recap, just in case you haven't been able to keep up; the general consensus is the following: Unless you have something good to say (and only something good) about Gran Turismo, don't say it at all, even if everyone else is aware of it. So, fair warning... ignore me now because for the money that's going to come out of my pocket, if I find something that warrants a reasonable thought of any kind, whether it be positive or negative, I'm going to talk about it and that's just the way it is.
Is this aimed at me? Have you read any of my posts before this (EDIT: previous, now) page? Are you implying that your post is the appropriately mature way to respond?
P.S. I find your choice of font difficult to read.
- 28,461
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
You know, you're not the first person to say that - what's the problem with it?
As for it being directed squarely at you? No, it wasn't, well, the first sentence was but everything afterward was a generalized reply.
- 1,339
seconded, completely unnecessarily too
- 28,461
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
- 1,083
- PeachSergeantz
- Same as PSN but I dont use it.
- 1,339
your choice of font is difficult to read, and unnecessary.
your choice of font is difficult to read, and unnecessary.
- 28,461
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
McLaren
Premium
- 46,211
- Texas
And get it wrong near every time.Nice to see you using your industry insight again there, McLaren
🤬 Turn 10;
🤬 Bizarre Creations.
PD, do it your own way. 👍
This is nothing more than another post supporting PD for anything & everything they do. Why should PD get special treatment for not being to accomplish a few features in 5 years when other developers manage it in 3 or less?Those guys and gals in Tokyo have been getting stick for all sorts of things over the years. Damage is one. AI another.
Did it ever occur to anybody that they might have got these things working years ago (like weather...), but "couldn't" put them in a game because they couldn't get it to run properly with their chosen balance (i.e. graphics-heavy - pretty graphics sell)
Kaz promised a lot of things for GT4 back then. A lot of them never delivered. You must one of those people who keeps the blinders, on though, right?
I have a strong feeling GT5 is going to end up like FM3. All its fans stood behind & berated everyone who pointed out a negative thing. 6 months after it was out, you're lucky to find those same people.
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
McLaren
Premium
- 46,211
- Texas
Ignoring the little crack at me, I assure you they're not. I'd be willing to bet they jumped ship to GT5 (I've already seen a few honestly), which explains the similar posts between this forum & FM.net's back in the day.
- 643
- Spazza
I'm not so sure that GTPlanet will end up like FM3's forum, i mean, GT4's forum section is still going....
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
- 8,725
Nice to see you're keeping an open mind. (It's the key to staying young
)No, actually it was more about highlighting the folly of presumption. Including yours. (I notice again, that you seem to "know" how long it should take to achieve something - I'm also not aware of another game like GT on the Playstation 3)
I don't know what you're referring to. In fact, this was the point I was making in the previous paragraph. The promised stuff was "never" delivered (I'm pretty sure Gran Turismo is still being actively developed) because it couldn't work at the level they wanted (Kaz admitted this recently), alongside all the other stuff - graphics, mostly, I'd imagine.
Weather. Damage. AI. All of these are victims (some of them multiply so) of the perfectionism-driven "culling" that seems to go on at PD.
I wouldn't know anything about that, but hopefully all those eternal pessimists will disappear, too.
McLaren
Premium
- 46,211
- Texas
GT4's also the only major GT game out besides Prologue.
All I read was someone assuming PD had accomplished features like weather & that, but couldn't do them all.
So what, PD decided sound was one of those features they decided to take hit on?
All of that is being brought up by you. I'm talking about sound & if you're reasoning for why that can't be done properly is the same as weather, damage, & AI, sorry, I don't buy that.
They've done it more justice than the Viper or Gallardo, to say the least.
I did read complaints about how the Viper sounded. I've never heard one "in the flesh" as it were so probably wouldn't be able to tell but I find that T10 have done a very good job with the engines sounds in Forza. They all pretty much sound unique.
Must say it will be disappointing if the sounds are not at least close to being authentic.....
- 8,725
"Someone" being me, I presume?
And I wasn't assuming, Kaz himself commented that they'd been experimenting with weather - we've had wet track surfaces since GT3 (probably as a result of a prior experiment). Improved AI was recently mentioned (at GamesCom, I believe) as being a feature that was abandoned somewhere around GT3 (A-Spec), and damage was "attempted" for GT2.
I brought it all up, yes, but you poo-pooed it, did you not? And on a basis entirely imagined, no less.
What I didn't understand about your mentioning GT4 was your reference to blinkers, implying that I was selectively forgetting the missed "promises" from GT4, when in fact that's exactly what I was referring to.
I don't care that you don't "buy it" (as if I were selling it...), but it's still a possibility - and so long as people don't start using it as gospel, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of open-minded optimism, if only as food for thought.
---------------------------
@Ryan81: I believe most of the complaints centre around the Tuned Viper (SRT/10), which has some imagined sound to it. The ordinary SRT/10 is OKish in GT5
, whilst the previous gen. GTS is one of the better cars (for sound) in the game - in my humble opinion. Generally, higher rpms, as McLaren rightly said, are "off" on most cars.
- 4,880
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Do you people read?
I said the PS3 doesn't have enough memory to do the sounds justice, not whether it has the hardware to produce good quality sounds.
By justice, I mean complex sounds, with different sounds for varying loads, and overrun, variation for every single sound that happens in the game etc. First person shooters and other games don't need long sustained looping sounds so they don't use that much memory. Most of their sounds are single shot split second thing things that hardly take up any memory. Any dialogue and what not can be streamed off the disc.
I posted a while back in this thread that the average sound file per car in GTR2 was between 5-10 megs. And in GTR Evolution, some cars were between 25-50 megs. All the GTR games only used about three or four 2-4 sec samples for the whole rev range as well. The GTR Evolution added the same for off throttle, and double that for the exterior versions, hence the larger size.
Now the PS3 has 256megs total to use for the Game data, excluding the video ram, and 50 megs or so of this is taken up by the PS3's XMB OS. That leaves no more than 200 megs it has to share between the program, tracks, car models, and so on. Do the sums. Consider the jump to 16 unique cars per race on this memory useage
I highly doubt PD can spare 50 megs for a car. Even if it used 5 megs per car x 16 = 80 megs, way too much. Maybe even 50 megs total for all sounds together might be pushing it.
I read that Codemaster's F1 2010 only allocates 2 megs total for all the game's sound on consoles.... probably why all the cars in it, on consoles, have the same sound...
I said the PS3 doesn't have enough memory to do the sounds justice, not whether it has the hardware to produce good quality sounds.
By justice, I mean complex sounds, with different sounds for varying loads, and overrun, variation for every single sound that happens in the game etc. First person shooters and other games don't need long sustained looping sounds so they don't use that much memory. Most of their sounds are single shot split second thing things that hardly take up any memory. Any dialogue and what not can be streamed off the disc.
I posted a while back in this thread that the average sound file per car in GTR2 was between 5-10 megs. And in GTR Evolution, some cars were between 25-50 megs. All the GTR games only used about three or four 2-4 sec samples for the whole rev range as well. The GTR Evolution added the same for off throttle, and double that for the exterior versions, hence the larger size.
Now the PS3 has 256megs total to use for the Game data, excluding the video ram, and 50 megs or so of this is taken up by the PS3's XMB OS. That leaves no more than 200 megs it has to share between the program, tracks, car models, and so on. Do the sums. Consider the jump to 16 unique cars per race on this memory useage
I highly doubt PD can spare 50 megs for a car. Even if it used 5 megs per car x 16 = 80 megs, way too much. Maybe even 50 megs total for all sounds together might be pushing it.
I read that Codemaster's F1 2010 only allocates 2 megs total for all the game's sound on consoles.... probably why all the cars in it, on consoles, have the same sound...
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- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
Is memory not hardware? If it's good enough hardware to make good quality sound, why is it not good enough hardware to "do the sound justice"?
Do you know what the ps3 can or can't do? The ps2 "couldn't do sound justice" so you'd have thought sony would make sure the PS3 didn't have the problem.
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- 4,880
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Read - I said it has 256 megs for program data. Hardware refers to the Processors, Digital Optical outs or the Digital Analog convertors, the clock outputs for such etc. If you use the Digital Optical outs or HDMI, then your not even using the PS3 itself for outputting the sound anyway
Has anyone on the PC try to run a modern racing game on 256 megs?
I'm sure it doesn't run too well. I have 12 gigs in my home PC
Has anyone on the PC try to run a modern racing game on 256 megs?
I'm sure it doesn't run too well. I have 12 gigs in my home PC
It actually has 512mb of shared memory for program data, 256mb of which is running at 3.2ghz, at least triple that of even high-end computer memory.
Edit: RAM is hardware.
Also the way developers utilise that RAM is completely different to how PC devs utilise RAM. Not that almost any PC game pushes more than 3.2gb anyway - btw I have 8gb of ddr3 in my laptop, it's from experience
Edit: RAM is hardware.
Also the way developers utilise that RAM is completely different to how PC devs utilise RAM. Not that almost any PC game pushes more than 3.2gb anyway - btw I have 8gb of ddr3 in my laptop, it's from experience
- 4,880
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
256 megs of that belongs to the video card. Memory speed doesn't help for storing sample data. You need good only brute memory size. And it needs to be in ram all the time, you can't stream in engine sound data like you can with textures and other things
All I'm saying is, if you consider GTR Evolution to have good sounds. And it uses between 25-50 megs per car, how do you expect a PS3 with 256 megs of system ram to match it? Magic?
And GTR Evolution only uses 3-4 samples for the whole rev range. So if you have less memory to do things, it makes it highly unlikely that you'll be using the same amount of samples for the rev range
All I'm saying is, if you consider GTR Evolution to have good sounds. And it uses between 25-50 megs per car, how do you expect a PS3 with 256 megs of system ram to match it? Magic?
And GTR Evolution only uses 3-4 samples for the whole rev range. So if you have less memory to do things, it makes it highly unlikely that you'll be using the same amount of samples for the rev range
Who said VGA memory can't process sound data?
Difference between poorly optimised PC game sound data and exttremely well optimised PS3 game sound data, especially in the hands of devs like polyphony, is that there are shortcuts to everything. 25-50megs of data per car in GTR could rationally be done on a much stricter budget of RAM if developing time allowed. 6 Years definitely allows for that focus.
Samples aside, it's all down to optimisations. Why do you think Uncharted 2 is visually up there with the best of them despite crysis requiring at least four times the raw hardware power?
Difference between poorly optimised PC game sound data and exttremely well optimised PS3 game sound data, especially in the hands of devs like polyphony, is that there are shortcuts to everything. 25-50megs of data per car in GTR could rationally be done on a much stricter budget of RAM if developing time allowed. 6 Years definitely allows for that focus.
Samples aside, it's all down to optimisations. Why do you think Uncharted 2 is visually up there with the best of them despite crysis requiring at least four times the raw hardware power?
- 4,880
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Who said VGA memory can't process sound data?
Difference between poorly optimised PC game sound data and exttremely well optimised PS3 game sound data, especially in the hands of devs like polyphony, is that there are shortcuts to everything. 25-50megs of data per car in GTR could rationally be done on a much stricter budget of RAM if developing time allowed. 6 Years definitely allows for that focus
The video memory in the PS3's video card is locked to it. It's basicly a 7800GTX hybrid
Unlike some things, sound data is sound data, you can't really shrink it down.
Compress it, then you lose quality, especially the bass end. Shorten the already short (2-4 second samples and the quality suffers and you get warbly loops ala GT4. Use less samples for the rev range and you get the infamous synthy sounding top end pitch shifting sound.
Oh look, maybe GT5 already does all these things, hence why it sounds the way it does
Texture data is texture data, you can't really shrink it down. Compress it, then you lose quality.
See what I did there?
It all depends on what compression algorithm you use. If you have a talented developer they'll use a very efficient compression method. Why do you think, again, Uncharted 2 contains crysis level character textures?The PS3 can 'borrow' 256mb from the video memory pool if the dev so wishes
GT5's current build sounds very good. Almost, dare I say it, Forza 3 level if not there already?
Stop editing lol.
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- 4,880
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Texture data is texture data, you can't really shrink it down. Compress it, then you lose quality.
See what I did there?
GT5's current build sounds very good. Almost, dare I say it, Forza 3 level if not there already?
Unlike sound compression artifacts, image degradation is quite easy to cover up, with all the effects and post processing and motion. Plus like I said, textures can be streamed nicely, it doesn't have to sit in memory. That's how the PS3 works.
Samples can't be streamed, they're playing all the time. They're probably already compressed, hence why they don't sound that good - HA!
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