good point, the comments of the person taking the video were strange (perhaps someone who dislikes Stewart?), if I had been the one taping I would probably have said "omg an idiot ran on the track and got hit" instead.
Kevin Ward
- Thread starter GTPorsche
- 610 comments
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- Atlanta, GA, USA
- Bhowe83
No, I saw the guy who posted the video on Facebook before he posted it. It was just more out of shock then anything. Can you really blame him? He just saw a person get hit and then thrown across a track, plus our eyes can't zoom the way a camera lens can. To human eyes, it probably did look like Stewart hit him, and it's possible that the guy yelling wasn't even the guy filming.
- 8,049
- GTP_Royalton
So if he was wearing red or white it would be OK to do what he did? Yeah Im sure everyone but Ward would have decided to check on the color of their racing suit before trying to confront someone on a racetrack. Hindsight is such a great thing, and makes you look so smart, doesnt it?
He tried to cross the track? Your acting like the guy sprinted across the track to reach the infield without looking for any cars. Nothing could be further from the truth.
A person was struck by a car and thrown 50 feet, and a second later your calling the guy, lying motionless on the ground and mangled, an idiot?
What a great society we live in. You sir are a cherished member. Surely Darwin smiles down on you while dispatching of 'idiots' like Ward, at least thats what you believe, right?
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
- 23,800
- Philippines
As several members have stated, and as is plainly obvious in the video, he did run out into the racing line without recognizing where all the cars were.
At the start of the section where the camera is focused on him, he gets buzzed on the high line before running across it. And then he has to take a step back because... crap... he's now in the path of 45.
And then he runs down again to confront Tony before realizing... crap... he's also in Tony's path. Only this time he steps back way too late.
Kevin was standing smack-dab in the middle of the racing groove, having to dodge cars left and right before Tony gets there. Are you suggesting that he deliberately, with great care, picked a spot on the race track where no car could possibly hit him? Because the video paints an entirely different picture.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
Speaking of dirt track racing, not been a good week of publicity. This is actually from last friday and flagman Keith Trusso was very lucky to be not hurt in this:
Suffice to say, this Kevin Ward tragedy is going to hurt peoples opinions of dirt track racing. But would there have been such an outcry if it wasn't Stewart in the dirt car who hit Kevin? I think not.
Suffice to say, this Kevin Ward tragedy is going to hurt peoples opinions of dirt track racing. But would there have been such an outcry if it wasn't Stewart in the dirt car who hit Kevin? I think not.
- 41,073
I don't think they were really strange. "Tony just hit that guy" makes a lot of sense as the immediate reaction to the incident to me. He's the big name guy in the field and the shock of what happened no doubt hit immediately.
If we were talking about how Tony Stewart yanked the wheel to the right and deliberately drove into Ward head on, then for good measure spun the car around and ran over him again to put aside all reasonable doubt that he intentionally murdered the kid, running out in the middle of a racetrack while cars are driving on it is still something that is very idiotic indeed, yes.
Though by all means explain why Ward's actions were in fact the intelligent decision to make in his situation. Be sure to use that extra elitist reasoning while doing so.
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you missed my point, if I see someone standing in front of a race car, on a race track, during a race, and get hit because of it, my reaction isn't "that car hit that dude", it's "that dude (who had no business being on the race track) got hit by that car".
Just like if someone decided to stand in a line of fire at the last second, I wouldn't be saying "omg that dude just shot him".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards
instead of trolling, Earth and cie., read!
a) I wouldn't even have known a sprint car racer died if Stewart wasn't included.
b) watching onboard views actually gave me interest in sprint cars, I never watched a race, I might now.
- 2,188
- Northwest Passage
My reaction would be "That guy just ran him over!!!". Because technically, he did run him over purposely or not. But saying "That guy just got hit by the car!!" is basically the same thing. Its like saying cup half full or half empty.
- 41,073
Just saying, but that really seems like a semantic difference to me after the guy already got hit. If I saw him before he got hit I might yell about how the guy was on the track, but when the accident itself is the point of focus it makes sense to me that that is how people would respond to it.
- 8,049
- GTP_Royalton
No, I wouldnt. But Ward did nothing many before him have done. Its like trashing the first NASCAR driver who ends up seriously hurting or killing someone in a revenge wreck, when all he did was follow along with a culture that's decades old which allowed such behavior. But since his revenge crash ended up killing someone, lets forget about everything before it, huh? Would you doubt for a second that Stewart himself could've done the very same thing if he were in Ward's shoes? After checking the color of his firesuit first of course.
As several members have stated, and as is plainly obvious in the video, he did run out into the racing line without recognizing where all the cars were.
At the start of the section where the camera is focused on him, he gets buzzed on the high line before running across it. And then he has to take a step back because... crap... he's now in the path of 45.
And then he runs down again to confront Tony before realizing... crap... he's also in Tony's path. Only this time he steps back way too late.
Kevin was standing smack-dab in the middle of the racing groove, having to dodge cars left and right before Tony gets there. Are you suggesting that he deliberately, with great care, picked a spot on the race track where no car could possibly hit him? Because the video paints an entirely different picture.
Cut it with the highly sensationalized BS that he ran anywhere. At most he made 2 or 3 quick steps after walking, and that was before the 45 got there let alone Stewart. You make it sound as though he were in some sort of full sprint across the racetrack right into Stewart's path. Stop being deceptive.
Dodging cars left and right? The story is already so altered and twisted in your mind its going to be near impossible reasoning with you. Your version of events in this post is so warped its hard to believe we're even looking at the same video. He "ran" "again" after the 45 passed? Your argument is weak and based on pure speculation, so your resorting to sensationalism to add a shred of weight to it. You sir are delusional and deceptive and not worthy of anymore of my time. Neither is this thread.
Again, the whole point just blows right over your head. Or maybe your the type of person I think you are? Either way your not worthy of an explanation. Im done here, enjoy patting eachother on the back while attempting to bully anyone who disagrees with you.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
No, I wouldnt. But Ward did nothing many before him have done. Its like trashing the first NASCAR driver who ends up seriously hurting or killing someone in a revenge wreck, when all he did was follow along with a culture that's decades old which allowed such behavior. But since his revenge crash ended up killing someone, lets forget about everything before it, huh? Would you doubt for a second that Stewart himself could've done the very same thing if he were in Ward's shoes? After checking the color of his firesuit first of course.
Cut it with the highly sensationalized BS that he ran anywhere. At most he made 2 or 3 quick steps after walking, and that was before the 45 got there let alone Stewart. You make it sound as though he were in some sort of full sprint across the racetrack right into Stewart's path. Stop being deceptive.
Dodging cars left and right? The story is already so altered and twisted in your mind its going to be near impossible reasoning with you. Your version of events in this post is so warped its hard to believe we're even looking at the same video. He "ran" "again" after the 45 passed? Your argument is weak and based on pure speculation, so your resorting to sensationalism to add a shred of weight to it. You sir are delusional and deceptive and not worthy of anymore of my time. Neither is this thread.
Again, the whole point just blows right over your head. Or maybe your the type of person I think you are? Either way your not worthy of an explanation. Im done here, enjoy patting eachother on the back while attempting to bully anyone who disagrees with you.
Trolling others just because you got nothing constructive to add is not really clever.
He shouldn't have been on track in first to place. As a result his own misjudgement of his own safety regrettably cost him his life.
- 2,188
- Northwest Passage
I'm starting to think its unpreventable. Stewart tried to turn left, and his rear slid up and hit Ward, or Ward walked into Stewart's rear. BHowe said a few posts ago that the driver in front of Tony missed him by the thickness of paper according to that driver.
More and more I'm feeling bad for the Ward family and Tony. Tony will have to live with him 'killing' someone for the rest of his life whether purposeful or not, and the Ward family will have to live with a dead family member due to dirt track racing.
- 41,073
Again, your point wasn't deceptive in the slightest. We aren't allowed to judge Ward's actions because he was killed because of them. We get it. You don't need to spell it out any further. It's not a new point for you in this thread. It's certainly not new for you as a member talking about an accident on track, as I linked last time you tried to pull this when I called you on it.
You've whined about it ever since you started, and you've also refused every time to defend it when called on it. Instead you just attack posts purely on the premise that the ones who don't agree with you just don't get it for no other reason than they don't agree with you. Grow up.
THERE it is. That's exactly the kind of high horse, pretentious non-answer I was expecting you'd give. Thanks for proving my point.
You are right about something: at the end of the day I don't really care that a kid died in a dirt track race, mostly because of his own actions. It's certainly a tragic event, an obviously preventable one, and a real shame that a promising kid was killed before his time; but even though it happened at a race track I've been to a couple times, in a town I went to college in for several years which is only 40 minutes away, involving a driver that I used to like back when I really cared about NASCAR; it still doesn't effect me on a personal enough level for me to comment on it beyond what seem to be the facts of the incident. And the fact of the matter is that running out on a race track when cars are driving by is stupid. It's stupid if a driver uses that as a pretext to run you down on purpose. It's stupid if nothing whatsoever happens to you. It's the kind of violation of common sense regarding how dangerous cars are compared to pedestrians that they specifically teach you about when you're in kindergarten.
And I certainly don't care that Earth, patron saint of driver safety and to hell with everyone who doesn't agree with him over every measure because they just want drivers to get hurt, views that as an undesirable response.
You already gave one. Multiple times, in fact. It amounts to this:
As far as an explanation for why it isn't right to label some guy rather blindly running out on a racetrack before the safety crews had even gotten to him as doing something idiotic, I never for a second expected you to give one in the first place. So the joke's on you anyway.
Awww. You didn't even delete all of your posts this time.
- 23,800
- Philippines
If your entire beef with my previous post is that steps that occur at a significantly faster speed than normal walking pace are not running, then what term would you rather I use? Jog? Let's break down the video.
He takes *five very quick, very big steps* out into the track, then comes to a near stop when he realizes there are a lot of cars there. One car buzzes him on the high line as he walks a dozen steps forward, away from his car...
After three cars pass, he takes *several somewhat quick (but still big) steps* down into the racing line... then two quick steps back because 45 is there. The camera pans away from Ward to follow 45, but you can just catch him taking *two to three quick shuffle steps back down into the line* 45 was following as the camera pans away. Then Tony is there. Then Kevin finally... finally takes two steps back... two seconds too late.
Goodbye, then.
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No, I wouldnt. But Ward did nothing many before him have done. Its like trashing the first NASCAR driver who ends up seriously hurting or killing someone in a revenge wreck, when all he did was follow along with a culture that's decades old which allowed such behavior. But since his revenge crash ended up killing someone, lets forget about everything before it, huh? Would you doubt for a second that Stewart himself could've done the very same thing if he were in Ward's shoes? After checking the color of his firesuit first of course.
Wait, did you SERIOUSLY just imply that what Kevin Ward did was justifiable because "other racers did it"? That is like saying Gang Banging is OK, because other poor people within the same ethnic demographic rob, rape, and kill people too, so why should that young kid who grew up watching that happen around him, act any differently?
Im sorry, but the stupidity of this statement is beyond logic.
Really? You are going to go over the semantics of the word "ran"? He certainly wasnt leisurely strolling down the track enjoying some sweet tea. He was a darn good 15-20 feet away from his car, and went from the apron, to the middle of the track. That takes more than a handful of steps by any measure.
And the exact same statement could be said of your interpretation of it as well. Your "facts" are so horridly composed that it is bordering on hyperbole, if not well into it.
Actually its based on very specific video evidence. He ran (yes i will use the word ran, because it wasnt a walk) to the middle of the track, nearly got hit by the #45 after dodging it, and then proceeded, with emphasis and intent, to the front of Tony Stewarts car, and at the last moment realized the stupidity of his positioning on the track, and tried to jump out of the way too late. There is nothing "sensationalized" about that. Its the facts. And its plain as day to anyone who watches the video without any kind of preconceived bias of the events.
You mad, bro? Seems like you are desperately clinging onto your false assumptions, and preconceived notions, and despite the overwhelming preponderance of evidence presented before you, you would much rather walk away with your head held high in the stinky cloud of your own ignornace and malice, then admit that you are wrong. Go you. You win at the internet. If you want the grand prize, invoke the nazi's, that usually does the trick.
Yes, the smart people are clueless. Lets not try and figure out why YOU dont get it, just blame THEM for your shortcomings. Clearly THEY are the ones with the problem, and too stupid to "get it".
This isnt about disagreement, this is about facts. And when you choose to ignore facts, to concoct your own narrative that suits your personal viewpoint, thats called lying.
Despite your best efforts to put on your fancy hat, and pretend to be the psuedo-intelectual you wish you were, you got called on your BS, and now you are mad and running away. Perhaps this isnt because we are the type of people you THINK we are, and maybe we have just been around long enough to KNOW exactly the type of person you are?
Imagine that...
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- Vancouver, BC
- Awong124
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Judge on process, not on results.
- 428
- Dulles VA
- dyingfetusmike
Wow ... when you ignore someone, everything they've ever posted (including when they are quoted) disappears. That makes everyone's eloquent replies to Earth's absurd blather appear to be slightly lacking in context and confusing. I guess I can live with that 
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
I summarize the following after reading an AP article:
Under NY law, no criminal intent is required for a person to be charged with 2nd degree manslaughter if prosecutors believe he "recklessly caused the death of another person". That is a factual question which might be decided by a jury.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/12/tony-stewart-still-could-face-charges-fatal-accide/
Under NY law, no criminal intent is required for a person to be charged with 2nd degree manslaughter if prosecutors believe he "recklessly caused the death of another person". That is a factual question which might be decided by a jury.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/12/tony-stewart-still-could-face-charges-fatal-accide/
- 23,800
- Philippines
I think that would go without saying anywhere in the US. Recklessness leading to death would automatically lead to manslaughter charges.
It would be nice if police finally released the second video, hopefully, with a wider angle view of the incident.
It would be nice if police finally released the second video, hopefully, with a wider angle view of the incident.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
- 428
- Dulles VA
- dyingfetusmike
That article is interesting, but stands on a pretty big "if" (in particular, proving the "depraved indifference to human life"). Though it would be unfortunately possible for a lawyer to twist the lack of knowledge about how sprints handle into some claim of intent (again with the "fishtailing ... perhaps indicating he was accelerating"). Hope the defense has someone like Buck-O to lay it out so everything is nice and sparkling clear.
The only thought that has occurred to me as far as anything else Tony could have done in the situation, would be *maybe* if he had a split second chance of perceiving that the rear tire was going to hit Kevin regardless of the attempt at an evasive maneuver, then to minimize the damage he could have tried to lock up the rear tire, if that's even possible in a sprint car. But that's like speculating that the Titanic could have survived if it had just hit the iceberg head-on instead of trying to turn away...
It's easy enough to react to something you were expecting might happen anyway (e.g. a slide that happens when you are exiting a corner on the limit). Altogether different to react to something totally unexpected (e.g. a pedestrian on the racing line). Many articles have been written about how the brain works and how "blind" it can be to things that are different than what you're looking for. Remember the students playing basketball and you have to count passes, and you'll not even notice the guy in the gorilla suit walking through? Not to mention, the way you use your eyes while drifting is different than grip driving - you look across the inside corner for grip, but the outside corner for drift, hence it might be harder and take longer to notice a guy in a black suit and helmet walking in the middle of the track and barely dodging the car right in front of you and then instead of continuing AWAY, he comes back CLOSER again.
The other thing to remember is the difference in perspective looking at something when you are standing still versus if you are moving. That's why cops tell you to come to a complete stop at an intersection - if you keep rolling even a little bit, if someone coming toward you is slightly in a blind spot for you, well guess what - if you are moving a little, he stays in that blind spot. So you pull out thinking no one is there and then whoops! Now consider the geometry of drifting around a corner to the left, as a guy is walking down the track (moving right to left), and he is wearing black which matches the color of your roll bar...
- 7,337
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I hope this is just a stage of grief speaking and not from a lawyer's script. http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....about_his_son_his_death_and_tony_stewart.html
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The "orange fluorescent stripes" on KW's overalls are clearly noted. I have to say that I didn't personally see their effect on the video, but that means nothing.
This sounds like a combination of blinkered (if completely understandable) rage and some lawyer-speak. They're not quite claiming a case in the final collision but that article summarises a pretty well-hedged bet, in my opinion.
The whole thing's just really sad, if I was KW's dad I'd blame Stewart too, no doubt. It would be irrational but whatever.
This sounds like a combination of blinkered (if completely understandable) rage and some lawyer-speak. They're not quite claiming a case in the final collision but that article summarises a pretty well-hedged bet, in my opinion.
The whole thing's just really sad, if I was KW's dad I'd blame Stewart too, no doubt. It would be irrational but whatever.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Funny part (as in irony of some who claimed it before this) that I caught was that his father said not once has his son stepped out of the car to do this, but surmises he did this time due to the person that "caused Kevin's wreck"
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