So, about that course creator.

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metramt8
About GT Arena, the web says:

You can also remove the cornerstones and corner barriers to set up a variety of attractions using cones.

It would be great if we can edit the existing tracks too, like Streets of Willow or Ascari, that have many layouts inside.
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That was just a poor way of saying they would use them for the coffee brake challenges.
 
eran0004
On an idea level the concept may be similar. But it's a long way to go from there to actually making a functional prototype.

Sorry for the link, next time I'll just quote things without letting you know the source.
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Who said anything about prototype? Other than PD, and like I said they did have an archetype to work from so I don't see how one could call it a full ground up effort.

And I knew the source :lol: as I said I'm reading the articles concurrently to make sure what I'm remember is correct with what was written. Any other time I'd ask for a source, I'm just trying to be friendly to save you time, no reason to be uppity.
 
SVPSkins
it will turn up, people just have to learn to be patient. you want it to be the best it can be right?
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...I sometimes wonder if people just read what they want and then make a wishful comment in support of the group being discussed.

So I'll just say this, the reason people ask or are so adament about keeping PD to task is only due to what PD themsevles said. Too many times people make it seem that we here as fans are either not fans or are just impatient people that want to rush PD into a mistake. The problem is:

https://www.gtplanet.net/tag/gt6-course-maker/

There is a nice time line of what has been said and thus reported by GTP on the subject. PD themselves said the two update aspect more than a year and a half ago, not us. PD is the one who claimed it was barely going to miss the deadline barely (I guess that means year and a half barely, maybe I can use that with important work at the Uni or Work). Once again PD, not us and that one was said Dec 2013.

In the end I only wish to point out this is why people are asking, and one either looks at those timelines and see the logic in why it's a good reason to ask...or one could just do the opposite of that for various reasons.
 
My naturally pessimistic outlook tells me that if something sounds too good to be true, it might well be... I hope the course creator comes and is everything I would like, but I'm normally pre-resigned to thinking it won't happen, so if/when it doesn't I don't get too bent out of shape about it - that's just the kind of guy I am. Course maker was not "hyped up", we've never even been teased by it, ethics of the fact it is an advertised feature aside for a moment... anybody who has high expectations for this has constructed them themselves... and if it sucks and they go into a butt-hurt-pocalypse, it's their fault.

I wonder if that makes me an apologist?
 
SVPSkins
it will turn up, people just have to learn to be patient. you want it to be the best it can be right?
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The best it can be..... that made me chuckle, just look at B-Spec.

It's too late for the CM now, it won't make a blind bit of difference.
As for patients I think GTP members have got the patient's of a saint.

P.S. I still play GT6 & enjoy it for what it is on a daily basis...
 
....There are still some people who haven't given up???
smiley-shocked011.gif


Wowsers. :lol:

The closer we get to the year-end, the less likely this Course Generator thingy will show up.

Why?

Simple: GT7. Simple logic (mine!! :D) says it will most likely rock up sometime next year. MEANING!!! There will be less and less devs working on GT6. And if this feature is as troublesome as PDI makes us believe (by not saying anything about it) then what chance a reduced staff can pull it off?

I'll tell ya, ZILCH. NADA. NYET. F-All. :P
 
Mr Grumpy
The best it can be..... that made me chuckle, just look at B-Spec.

It's too late for the CM now, it won't make a blind bit of difference.
As for patients I think GTP members have got the patient's of a saint.

P.S. I still play GT6 & enjoy it for what it is on a daily basis...
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Hows it to late?
 
The fact that i've never ever seen a single video gameplay or even a still ( and in this very age of gaming saying that's an anomaly is nought) makes me uncomfortable about the very existence of said option, they can always arrange a public announcement and say that they won't do it anymore stating that they'e sorry and stuff and get away with some nasty seasonal where they'll practically gift you with the cars that cost 20.000.000 and so on.
But the fact that a lot of things came by unannounced makes up for it and still keeps me waiting. (maybe playing with another game would help.)
 
I know its taking a long time but it must be done right and i think that why we had no news as of yet on the course maker. plus it must get past Sony Cert
 
SVPSkins
Hows it to late?
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Just on the basis of too many people have given up already & moved on.

There's only half the players there were when GT6 first came out & I bet half of that half don't care if the CM comes at all, I know I don't. It has no purpose to what I'm doing with GT6 atm
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
To me waiting for the paid for feature went past the level of acceptancy over a year ago, other companies can make and release an entire game in less than the time span that PD has taken to release a single feature for a game that's been worked on for, what, 5 years?
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We should all know by now that GT games are not released every year, unlike those "other companies" you mention. Most of the games from the "other companies" are usually released and then forgotten by their creators unless something is extremely wrong with it, and then they move on to creating the next release for the next year.

I for one am glad that PD actually releases the game, then updates and/or adds to it throughout it's lifespan until the next version comes out. Not a lot of game developers do that, especially on consoles.
 
MatskiMonk
Show me some hype? Show me some teasers, show me some adverts, show me some screen shots, show me some features... show me anything official related to, or publicising this feature that warrants the title of "Hype", not just a mention, or Kaz giving a vague mention when asked.
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Easy. Take any racing game in the world with a rabid fanbase. NFS, Forza, GT, Assetto Corsa whatever. Say this once and only once and see what happens:

We're adding a feature to your game where you can make any track layout you want in a 10,000 square kilometer area.

You don't need fanfare. You don't need YT videos. You don't need tv commercials. The words alone, said only once, by the game creator, are enough to cause any fanbase to go crazy wanting this feature. Throw in a statement like, "It's almost ready, might make it for release, we're not sure, if not, then shortly after", and you have the makings of near hysteria among dedicated fans of the franchise, which is exactly what happened on GTPlanet.

The end.
 
MatskiMonk
Show me some hype?
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Users will be able to “lay out their [custom] tracks freely” in an area of over 100 square kilometers. (Note: the exact quote from the translator is “100 kilometers by 100 kilometers”. However, this would be 10,000 square kilometers, an unreasonably large size and most likely a mistranslation.
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That's not "Kaz giving a vague mention when asked." That's Kaz giving direct information about a feature to be coming to GT6 during a dedicated press event for GT6.

It tells us two tangible pieces of data regarding the feature:
  • Being able to lay out custom tracks to our desire, supposedly in comparison to the random track generator that GT5 had.
  • The amount of space able to be utilized by the player in using the course maker.
“I said, ‘that is humungous, that is unbelievable, nobody is believing this on the forums, everybody is having a big discussion about it.’ He [Translator-san] turned to Kazunori, and told him this story – he laughed, and it actually got confirmed. Kazunori said at this point right now, they are not 100% sure that it is going to be 100 by 100 by kilometers, maybe it’s going to be 50 by 50 kilometers, but that’s still humungous as well,” reported Andreas.

Kazunori also went on to say “you’d be able to fit the Nurburgring ten times into this area.”
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That's not "Kaz giving a vague mention when asked." That's Kaz directly confirming (albeit allowing the possibility of things changing) his statements from the prior day were not a result of a mistake by his translator at the event; which was important after the heavy skepticism of the original claim.

That tells us two tangible pieces of data regarding the feature:
  • The amount of space able to be utilized by the player in using the course maker.
  • The amount of space might have to be lowered based on constraints the development team might run into.

Going by the latest info I’m getting from our development staff, it might end up being closer to 20×20. That is still very large – the Nurburgring is about 5×5 kilometers in the game, so it is quite a lot of space.
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That's not "Kaz giving a vague mention when asked." That's Kaz giving a clear statement that the course maker isn't going to be as large as was initially promised, but was still going to be large enough fit the entire Nurburgring into the area 4 times over.


In regards to the course maker, it is cutting it really close as to whether or not it will make it in time for day one or not for GT6. It’s definitely going to be there, but whether or not it will be available from day one I’m just not really sure right now.
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That's not "Kaz giving a vague mention when asked." That's Kaz giving a clear statement that the course maker is close enough to completion that there is a chance that it might even make it in the game by the day that it ships; and furthermore bringing up the potential release date by his own volition since that wasn't even what he was asked.

This tells us two tangible pieces of data regarding the feature:
  • The adjusted amount of space able to be utilized by the player in using the course maker.
  • A potential timetable for when to expect the feature to be patched into the game.

And the implication of:
  • The course creator might be nearing completion.

This feature, available at a later stage through an update, will allow you to create your own custom tracks that can be driven in the game. Additionally, in another update we will add the possibility to generate a track by capturing the GPS coordinate data of a mobile app while you are driving that course. This GPS-generated tracks will be available in the game as playable content.
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That's not "Kaz giving a vague mention when asked." That's a direct explanation of the functionality of the course maker feature as advertised on the GT6 website, first put up only a couple of weeks before GT6's release.

This tells us two tangible pieces of data regarding the feature:
  • The ability to use GPS data to create your own track in GT6.
  • That the GPS data functionality will come sometime after the "regular" course maker does.


the Beta version [of the Track Maker] is already working and in my hands now. When we can deliver it to users is still up in the air.
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That's not "Kaz giving a vague mention when asked." That's Kaz giving a direct assurance that the track maker had been in continued development even after PD sank into a complete black hole regarding information about what they were working on for the game.

Assuming Kaz was using the term "Beta" correctly, this tells one piece of tangible information:
  • PD has a working version of the course maker, presumably in its final form of development, going through its final level of polish to make sure it works properly

And the implication of:
  • The course creator might be nearing completion.





So, ignoring the obviously now irrelevant information regarding timetables and theoretical release dates, that leaves us four tangible pieces of information regarding the feature, all of which were brought up in the run to the game's release and some of which were done so repeatedly and which haven't been recanted or changed since:
  • Being able to lay out custom tracks to our desire, supposedly in comparison to the random track generator that GT5 had.
  • The amount of space able to be utilized by the player in using the course maker.
  • The ability to use GPS data to create your own track in GT6.
  • That the GPS data functionality will come sometime after the "regular" course maker does.

And all of which are completely reasonable expectations for the feature to have when (or if) it releases. And I honestly haven't seen much, if any, people expecting something amazing above and beyond those already impressive four things. If anything, the amount of people legitimately expecting PD to include all of those four things seems pretty low even though pretty much everything else promised before launch has (eventually) been put in.




So in my mind there are two extreme positions that apply for your initial statement here:
MatskiMonk
Course maker was not "hyped up", we've never even been teased by it, ethics of the fact it is an advertised feature aside for a moment... anybody who has high expectations for this has constructed them themselves... and if it sucks and they go into a butt-hurt-pocalypse, it's their fault.
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Either you are so ignorant of the announced, confirmed and occasionally even reconfirmed official information regarding the functionality of the course maker that you honestly felt the people talking about said officially claimed course maker functionality were talking out of their ass and thus deserve to have their "butt-hurt-pocalypse"; or you are so desperate to give PD a pass on including functionality they in one case still have advertised on the GT6 website that you are deliberately trying to redefine what the concept of "hype" is to fit an extremely narrow criteria that conveniently leaves out developer interviews, game website updates, international game expo press sessions and developer Q&A sessions (all picked up and spread across the web as the official information that they were) but conveniently includes things that PD never presented about the feature.
Now, certainly, I'd hope a member of your status on this site wouldn't make such a wide sweeping statement as the one you did above over something you knew nothing about; but even moreso I'd hope a member of your status on this site wouldn't be so deliberately and transparently misleading to try to claim that game functionality that was absolutely discussed multiple times in official capacities don't count as proof of what to expect for functionality because you didn't see a screenshot of it or something (as amusing as such a thing would be, given PD's history of releasing mockup screens of what functionality could look like, like they did with the GT5 B-Spec) when those statements and interviews and game expo press events were still widely reported as news for the game every time they happened. So I can only hope, really, that you fall somewhere in between the two; realizing that Kaz might have made yet another faux pas of overpromising what PD can deliver but unable to really blame him for doing so so long as they get something released. And I think "apologist" is a pretty apt descriptor for such an act, but you were the one who first said it. Had you not tried to frame yourself as some sort of one sane man regarding what to expect with the feature and tried to pass that off as pessimism with a sarcastic kicker at the end, I never would have put a label on what your post came off as. Simply would have debated the merits of your claims regarding false expectations.





Though I also suppose it's possible that you've been privy to some sort of widespread unrealistic expectations of what to want for the course maker that weren't announced, confirmed and then confirmed a second time; at which point I'll gladly take back all of the above two paragraphs if you can reasonably show this sort of widespread behavior to that effect. But usually (admitting that I know of a couple big exceptions) when people on GTP talk about "unrealistic expectations" in response to people being disappointed with what PD deliver what they really mean is "you shouldn't have so closely believed the thing you were directly told about what to expect."
Hell, maybe you're so loaded up with your "naturally pessimistic outlook" that you've automatically started seeing all claims that came from Kaz's mouth (or the GT website, or Sony press releases, or other Sony executives' statements) with complete and dominating cynicism, which is a perfectly understandable outlook to have, but certainly a depressing one.




And on another note:
Johnnypenso
You don't need tv commercials.
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I still find it so curious, and more than a little ominous, that the TV commercial that Sony did have created for exactly that purpose never aired until the company that made it simply released it to YouTube.
 
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Johnnypenso
The words alone, said only once, by the game creator, are enough to cause any fanbase to go crazy wanting this feature. Throw in a statement like, "It's almost ready, might make it for release, we're not sure, if not, then shortly after", and you have the makings of near hysteria among dedicated fans of the franchise, which is exactly what happened
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The more I think about it, when you put together all of the statements PD have made about not just the course maker but the entire GT franchise itself over the years, the more I feel like Kaz was turning into a miniature version of Peter Molyneux.
 
Course maker???

I remember a game I used to play that had a course maker :). It was great fun. A little finicky, but could produce nice results with practice. Then there was no more online for that game, so I stopped playing it...sad day :(


Really though, I'm kind of impartial to the course maker at this point. It was the main feature I was looking forward to in GT6 vs GT5, and I have yet to see it 1.5 years into GT6.

The fact that a course maker of any shape or form is still missing from GT6 is very disheartening...but let's face it, that's far from the only problem with GT6.

The current status of GT6 (and the lingering legacy of GT5, a debatable topic) has dealt a blow to the GT franchise that I'm not sure can be fixed by the addition of a course creator to GT6 - GPS or not.

So, does PD spend time building a complex GPS course creator for the PS3 (which can barely handle the photos and video replays I save...how is it going to save courses...1 per system??)? To me this seems to satisfy only a small demographic...us "hardcore GT fans" who are still left.

Or, does PD turn to GT7, and develope the course creator for the PS4?

No one going to run out and buy GT6 just because a course creator was added unless that creator can use GPS to accurately remap the surfaces of nearly every circuit in the world (to start), along with nearly every road. Anything short of that, I don't really see the average gamer giving a crap.

I've been playing GT since the first. Loved them all (5&6 included). But I'm tired of PD's ways. All I've ever really asked for was some communication so I know what's coming (or what changes were made in a patch!!). I'll continue to play GT6 until something new comes along, but I am whole heartedly jumping ship when the time comes. If at the very least to try something new. PCARS is definitely on my list...heard rumblings of maybe a new TXR. Maybe I'll build a computer, who knows :lol:

If/when GT7 comes along, I'll see where I'm at, test it out, and then decide if I'll make the purchase. No more pre-orders from me.
 
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Mr Grumpy
Just on the basis of too many people have given up already & moved on.

There's only half the players there were when GT6 first came out & I bet half of that half don't care if the CM comes at all, I know I don't. It has no purpose to what I'm doing with GT6 atm
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i bet if it turned up in an update tomorrow you and others would. there might not be as many plays at the moment but thats because new games have come out since. thats how it is with games but you watch, when the CM shows up in game people will come flooding back.
 
Mr Grumpy
The best it can be..... that made me chuckle, just look at B-Spec.

It's too late for the CM now, it won't make a blind bit of difference.
As for patients I think GTP members have got the patient's of a saint.

P.S. I still play GT6 & enjoy it for what it is on a daily basis...
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Justified considering not many people wants BSpec in the first place compared to the Course Maker.
 
It takes T10 a year and a half to make a full game. Yet it has taken PD the full development time of GT6+1.5 years+ to finish the course maker.

This is and has been a huge blunder on PD's part.

And B-Spec still sucks. Worse than GT5's by a long way.
 
If Polyphony were more transparent with the status of the Course Maker I would probably be a lot less frustrated (and a lot more tolerant) after all this time. It amazes me how a company and product with such a fanbase fails to appreciate this concept.
 
Let's just say that the Course Maker does arrive some day...I wonder what that means for the release of GT7? I don't pretend to have any clue as to how PD dedicates its resources, but GT7 has got to be a priority right now, wouldn't you think? The PS4 has been out for a long time now and Sony has got to be steaming that one of their super titles still isn't available for it.

So, if they are still trying to get this Course Maker working properly, and it's been 18 months since GT6 released, that says to me that they're having lots of problems. It's pretty much the last promised feature, isn't it? So, if it does finally release, does that mean PD can now focus most of its resources on GT7?

GT6 was my introduction into the world of Gran Turismo. I had zero expectations when I purchased this game. I had absolutely nothing to compare it to. Therefore, I have not been disappointed by anything. I can, however, understand why many of you have been severely disappointed. If you heard the promises and you purchased GT6 expecting things like the Course Maker to be available relatively soon after release, that's gotta be terribly upsetting. I just wish it would be possible to see an organizational chart of PDI. I hear rumors and whatever regarding the number of employees working on the sound, the number of employees who model assets (I still don't believe it takes 6 months to model 1 car), but I've never heard anyone's guess on the number of people dedicated to the Course Maker. And, like I said, there has to be several people already working on parts of GT7. How many? I haven't a clue.
 
Simply put this.

Patience has a limit.

PD can make a GT5 Prologue faster than a GT6 Course Maker.

You only live once, and it is limited.

I always wondered why considering PD work more than 4 years ago compared to what it is today.
 
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