Assetto Corsa PC Mods General DiscussionPC

[Peter Boese]

It is maybe also how "slop" is defined. I think with this project it is not slop in general, but the result is poor performance-wise.

So there is a good idea, but a preset click and go creator was used to generate a very complex app. And then it is the question how you can do a proper support to repair the slop that comes from the AI to get a proper working app.

And in AC/CSP this is kind of difficult, if you have a base like LUA, which is an easy language, but you must be very carefully what you are doing memory-wise and if you don't understand how the base works, a massive collection of common lua snippets, paired with a very unique SDK like the CSP one, creates slop, unless you are able to dig in deeply to repair all the parts where memory is create over and over.

And then again it would be much better to take the time to start from a simple base and trail and error to an advanced implementation and while you do that you know what you are doing. And sure you can take AI for this little steps so you see how something could be implemented. But you must understand it and you better combine all those parts with your own brain.

But when i'm looking through the code of those new crazy apps (and we will see much more of them in the near future), all the code is written by an Agent...

 

[racealot]

I was curious, because it looked crazy in the ad, but actually again all those new crazy things are vibe coding!
Or there are really crazy devs now which can write very great autistic-like structured code where all tabs are perfect and every thing is superb commented, but the result is then just **** performance-wise:View attachment 1556104

I mean how can you code such big project with all those features, but the memory goes crazy. So i have the feel this is vibe coded and the "coder" itself did not look in the debug stats and see what happens there.

BTW Pure is off so it does not have any interaction.

The idea is great, but the implementation is not done by a human! And it's not coded by a human if you are using a promt and let do all the things by an averaging technology. So at least there must be steps to proof this and debug it. But then again, who should read the code if you don't understand it?!

You've posted an interesting image depicting performance - have a query if you would be so kind to reply...

I see in the image you're monitoring the CPU % load (render-stats app), and CPU memory (debug app)...

How would you categorically rate the values shown on a user-performance-scale using say - Low, Low-Med, Medium, Med-High and High... Noting that user CPU model & speed varies somewhat across users - eg. what kind of PC performance are you using to achieve these resuts - apologies in advance for the thorough question - just being analytically inquisitive, many thanks.

It is maybe also how "slop" is defined. I think with this project it is not slop in general, but the result is poor performance-wise.

So there is a good idea, but a preset click and go creator was used to generate a very complex app. And then it is the question how you can do a proper support to repair the slop that comes from the AI to get a proper working app.

And in AC/CSP this is kind of difficult, if you have a base like LUA, which is an easy language, but you must be very carefully what you are doing memory-wise and if you don't understand how the base works, a massive collection of common lua snippets, paired with a very unique SDK like the CSP one, creates slop, unless you are able to dig in deeply to repair all the parts where memory is create over and over.

And then again it would be much better to take the time to start from a simple base and trail and error to an advanced implementation and while you do that you know what you are doing. And sure you can take AI for this little steps so you see how something could be implemented. But you must understand it and you better combine all those parts with your own brain.

But when i'm looking through the code of those new crazy apps (and we will see much more of them in the near future), all the code is written by an Agent...

Thanks for the feedback in reference to this Horizon app & Vibe Coding.

I've no doubt the use of digital AI will endure positive results progressively overtime (and quite possibly to our own demise - double edge sword, relatively speaking). It's hoped if used diligently, objectively & purposefully, we may presume the distant future is looking rosily.

 

[RMi_wood]

slop is as slop does

 

[racealot]

slop is as slop does

that would be sloppy

edit:
watching Atomic Blonde on the side, and a particular scene would have been perfectly applicable for this expression...

 

[Peter Boese]

You've posted an interesting image depicting performance - have a query if you would be so kind to reply...

I see in the image you're monitoring the CPU % load (render-stats app), and CPU memory (debug app)...

How would you categorically rate the values shown on a user-performance-scale using say - Low, Low-Med, Medium, Med-High and High... Noting that user CPU model & speed varies somewhat across users - eg. what kind of PC performance are you using to achieve these resuts - apologies in advance for the thorough question - just being analytically inquisitive, many thanks.

Sorry i don't really understand what you mean. Are you the dev of this app or are you in that group?

In the Lua Debug app you see how much memory the app currently is using. This number is constantly climbing, because you can't avoid some memory leaks, like with strings.

In Lua if you create a table it will reserve memory for this. Like you do:
local tbl = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 }

But if you do this again:
tbl = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 }

It will reserve a new area in your RAM for this and Lua markes the old area as garbage. And after some time the Lua garbage collector goes through this list and clears all the memory and marks it as usable again.

This process costs a lot of time and in case of this Horizon app the memory value jumps from 0 to 100MB in less then a second.
So if you have 90 fps, this app creates garbage of more than a megabyte in a frame.

Usually this memory value is moving slowly, like with Pure Planner app it wastes 10-50kb per second if it draws much text and so it uses much string functions.

So the garbage generation in the horizon app is like 1000-2000x higher.
And you see the result of this crazy garbage cleaning as a direct influence on the CPU.
Esp. if you monitor the frame time of the update cycle:

If you need 5 ms to do 1 cycle in this app, you can only achieve a resulting fps of 200 Hz if this would be the only thing that is done on the CPU in the CPU/Lua interpreter. But there are actually scripts for cars, track, displays, weather which must be calculated within a frame.

 

[racealot]

Sorry i don't really understand what you mean. Are you the dev of this app or are you in that group?

In the Lua Debug app you see how much memory the app currently is using. This number is constantly climbing, because you can't avoid some memory leaks, like with strings.

In Lua if you create a table it will reserve memory for this. Like you do:
local tbl = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 }

But if you do this again:
tbl = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 }

It will reserve a new area in your RAM for this and Lua markes the old area as garbage. And after some time the Lua garbage collector goes through this list and clears all the memory and marks it as usable again.

This process costs a lot of time and in case of this Horizon app the memory value jumps from 0 to 100MB in less then a second.
So if you have 90 fps, this app creates garbage of more than a megabyte in a frame.

Usually this memory value is moving slowly, like with Pure Planner app it wastes 10-50kb per second if it draws much text and so it uses much string functions.

So the garbage generation in the horizon app is like 1000-2000x higher.
And you see the result of this crazy garbage cleaning as a direct influence on the CPU.
Esp. if you monitor the frame time of the update cycle:
View attachment 1556108
If you need 5 ms to do 1 cycle in this app, you can only achieve a resulting fps of 200 Hz if this would be the only thing that is done on the CPU in the CPU/Lua interpreter. But there are actually scripts for cars, track, displays, weather which must be calculated within a frame.

Not associated in any way, form or shape with any App... Stumbled across it, as an alternate or parallel use to Content Manager...

Not even close to being a coder but do have a level+ of understanding when it comes to I.T. and the interaction between hardware & software, so your response even though digressive - makes sense, so, thank you & no, it was not what I was after.

Just a happy user of Assetto Corsa (mainly) and this forum (and acutely inquisitive about everything else life throws at you).

 

[Peter Boese]

Not associated in any way, form or shape with any App... Stumbled across it, as an alternate or parallel use to Content Manager...

Not even close to being a coder but do have a level+ of understanding when it comes to I.T. and the interaction between hardware & software, so your response even though digressive - makes sense, so, thank you & no, it was not what I was after.

Just a happy user of Assetto Corsa (mainly) and this forum (and acutely inquisitive about everything else life throws at you).

Actually it is not a replacement for Content Manager, because this is "just" an ingame HUD app.
Sure you can configure many things there in one place! So that's a nice idea. But you can't manage things there like tracks, cars and such stuff. It switches between things live, and then again i have the fear more memory leaks are produced in those features. But idk, i did not check it. I deleted it already, because the app runs all the time and so it will produce real heat in these days!