Current state of physics vs Forza 7. Which feels better?

[Scaff]

e.
Project Cars has a better feel, but there's a bit of twitchy to the way the body moves. As if the car movements are on fast forward.

Which car? Which track? As I have to say this has not been my experience with PC2 at all.

There doesn't seem to be a sense of weight and inertia as the car starts it's spin, or braking, or accelerating, etc.. I don't think that is related to the controller either.

I've not used a controller with PC2, but as far as my rig goes your 100% off course in this regard. The sense of weight and inertia is either on par or slightly behind AC, and a massive amount better than GTS with the same rig.

GTS has a very smooth response, regardless how quick they want to let go. I think the smoothness and feel of inertia in the car movement is what makes GTS feel right... Even if the physics aren't up to par with the likes of PC2.

Driven in anger on tracks a hell of a lot of cars don't have a smoothness to them at all, its actually a rather violent experience.

In terms of areas of physics that GTS lags behind in, well it quite a significant number of areas, in particular the tyre model, damper and aero model. With the result being that cars are simply missing behaviors that should be present.

In the real world, cars are smooth in how they handle. 150 mph on the big road, and steering is smooth, car movements are smooth, even when hitting bumps and pot holes. GTS has captured that sense of smooth driving for me.

What all cars?

I'm sorry but that's such a generalization as to be utterly useless.

The vast majority of road cars will experience a massive amount of lift once you start to knock on the door of 100mph, which may well feel smooth, but a good number don't, and any race preped car that is generating downforce to any serious degree will feel anything but smooth (particularly when you add in bush-less suspension and rose joints to the mix), quite the opposite. The faster you go in these, the more you will feel every surface imperfection and the more violent it will feel.

To be blunt in GTS the vast majority of the cars do not feel how they should and a good number (any FWD race car for example) simply don't behave in the manner they should.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm referring to the tendency of Forza to oversteer at higher speeds.

Yeah, and you'd have to elaborate on the conditions. I don't have a wheel, are you talking about on a wheel? On a pad there's speed sensitive dampening with the control inputs. On a wheel, I'm not sure how it reacts. Look at the telemetry when you're playing. At a stop, the wheels move from lock to lock freely, at speed, they don't.

And that really doesn't sound too far off from real life.

The vast majority of road cars will experience a massive amount of lift once you start to knock on the door of 100mph, which may well feel smooth, but a good number don't, and any race preped car that is generating downforce to any serious degree will feel anything but smooth (particularly when you add in bush-less suspension and rose joints to the mix), quite the opposite. The faster you go in these, the more you will feel every surface imperfection and the more violent it will feel

Quite. My 1983 280ZX felt like death was around the corner at speeds over 100 mph. My 06 Civic Si, felt generaly way smoother in comparison at comparable speeds. However, closer to 130~ in the Civic was a pretty rocky ride, feeling quite a lot of bumps you wouldn't feel at normal/lower speeds. I can only imagine what the Z would have felt like.

 

[Mark folsom]

"Which car? Which track? As I have to say this has not been my experience with PC2 at all."

Every car exhibits a "fast forward" twitchy effect which seems to try and simulate the inboard camera effect.

In other words, the response may be true to form, cars react fairly proper, but the way they initiate the true to life response seems to be on fast forward.

The effect looks fine if your goal is to simulate driving through the lens of an on board camera, but in real life our brains don't experience the twitchy, jumpy, fast forward effect I see in PC2.

I don't think it's the controller effect either.

I own PC2 now as well, and I find myself going back and forth between the two. When I want a truer response I drive PC2, but then when I want a more realistic steering input, I find that in GTS. So I'm going back and forth and see no reason to stay with one or the other. They are both good.

 

[ImaRobot]

"Which car? Which track? As I have to say this has not been my experience with PC2 at all."

Every car exhibits a "fast forward" twitchy effect which seems to try and simulate the inboard camera effect.

In other words, the response may be true to form, cars react fairly proper, but the way they initiate the true to life response seems to be on fast forward.

The effect looks fine if your goal is to simulate driving through the lens of an on board camera, but in real life our brains don't experience the twitchy, jumpy, fast forward effect I see in PC2.

I don't think it's the controller effect either.

So essentially you're saying that it's not wrong, you just don't like the way it looks? So that's why you're downplaying it's physics? Again, details need to be elaborated on - What view are you talking about?

Also, what you're saying is that cars with extremely stiff suspension, like race cars, aren't supposed to be bumpy? I think the problem here is that you're used to GTS being way smoother of a ride than it should be in some cases.

 

[Scaff]

"Which car? Which track? As I have to say this has not been my experience with PC2 at all."

Every car exhibits a "fast forward" twitchy effect which seems to try and simulate the inboard camera effect.

In other words, the response may be true to form, cars react fairly proper, but the way they initiate the true to life response seems to be on fast forward.

The effect looks fine if your goal is to simulate driving through the lens of an on board camera, but in real life our brains don't experience the twitchy, jumpy, fast forward effect I see in PC2.

I don't think it's the controller effect either.

I own PC2 now as well, and I find myself going back and forth between the two. When I want a truer response I drive PC2, but then when I want a more realistic steering input, I find that in GTS. So I'm going back and forth and see no reason to stay with one or the other. They are both good.

Do you have the FOV set correctly, what camera movement options do you have set, etc?

As quite frankly I don't get a bit of this at all.



What exactly is fast-forward like about the above?

 

[Mark folsom]

Do you have the FOV set correctly, what camera movement options do you have set, etc?

As quite frankly I don't get a bit of this at all.



What exactly is fast-forward like about the above?

If you watch at 3:48, the steering wheel is moving up and down rapidly, obviously trying to simulate the bumps in the road. That looks quite realistic.. if you're viewing an on board camera.

That's just an example of how all the cars move and respond. Twitchy. Like they've had too much caffeine.

 

[Scaff]

If you watch at 3:48, the steering wheel is moving up and down rapidly, obviously trying to simulate the bumps in the road. That looks quite realistic.. if you're viewing an on board camera.

That's just an example of how all the cars move and respond. Twitchy. Like they've had too much caffeine.

Then switch it off or reduce it, both of which are options available to you.

However I can assure you that the human body can't compensate for every bit of force it gets put under in those conditions.

 

[Sertsa]

To throw out some randomness, the most difficult racing game I've played is Grand Prix Legends. I don't know how it would work on a recent PC, however. Nor can I say how realistic it is as I've never driven a 1960s Grand Prix car. Judging by the game that's a good thing, as I would have quickly been dead.

For consoles, probably the most realistic physics-wise I've played is Dirt Rally. (I'm hoping Dirt Rally 2 will be good). The first time I made it through a stage without cracking the windshield felt like an achievement. There aren't a lot of environments, however, and if you want wheel to wheel racing there's only the Rallycross stages, which I don't like. It doesn't quite have the polish of the GT and Forza games, but I still find it engaging. (I've not played the Project Cars nor Assetto Corsa games).

That said, I've put more time in both the GT and Forza games I've owned. They may not be as realistic, but they've been fun and challenging without feeling overly arcady.

 

[fastone371]

I have played Gran Turismo since the the original Gran Turismo and I have played many Forza titles on my Xbox 360 and Xbox One. i just started playing Forza 7 early this week after I had to send my wheel out for repairs. The only reason I elected to start Forza was because my son had an extra Fanatec wheel I could put on my rig for Forza but so far I have not gotten it to work, thats tomorrows project. As for playing Forza 7 with a controller I think it is awful compared to GTS. Now that may be because I am racing the career mode in Forza 7 and have not really had the opportunity to drive proper race cars so far, Im at the point that I just had to buy a NASCAR stock car but with my limited time on Forza I feel the car drives very poorly compared to cars in GTS. If I was using the wheel and my pedals I may feel differently as I am having a hard time coming to grips with the brakes in Forza, i cant seem to find a comfortable point for trail braking, the brakes with the controller seem far too sensitive. Just like in GTS I think I would prefer to drive without assists on in Forza. The AI in Forza seems far more aggressive than in GTS, I seem to have the AI hitting me just for passing them, its almost like I am playing sport mode in GTS

 

[ImaRobot]

I have played Gran Turismo since the the original Gran Turismo and I have played many Forza titles on my Xbox 360 and Xbox One. i just started playing Forza 7 early this week after I had to send my wheel out for repairs. The only reason I elected to start Forza was because my son had an extra Fanatec wheel I could put on my rig for Forza but so far I have not gotten it to work, thats tomorrows project. As for playing Forza 7 with a controller I think it is awful compared to GTS. Now that may be because I am racing the career mode in Forza 7 and have not really had the opportunity to drive proper race cars so far, Im at the point that I just had to buy a NASCAR stock car but with my limited time on Forza I feel the car drives very poorly compared to cars in GTS. If I was using the wheel and my pedals I may feel differently as I am having a hard time coming to grips with the brakes in Forza, i cant seem to find a comfortable point for trail braking, the brakes with the controller seem far too sensitive. Just like in GTS I think I would prefer to drive without assists on in Forza. The AI in Forza seems far more aggressive than in GTS, I seem to have the AI hitting me just for passing them, its almost like I am playing sport mode in GTS

I’d recommend opening up all the dead zones in the Advanced Controller options. It makes a world of difference, to me anyways.

 

[Mark folsom]

So I've spent a good amount of time adjusting the controller settings on PC2 and it changes the response more than I could have imagined.

I'll have to apologize to PC2 for suggesting it was twitchy. Im really appreciating it's realism now.

 

[fastone371]

I’d recommend opening up all the dead zones in the Advanced Controller options. It makes a world of difference, to me anyways.

Thank you. That made a world of difference