Gran Turismo 7 “Power Pack” Paid DLC Now Available: New Races Including Endurance Events, Qualifying, and “Sophy 3.0”

[snowgt]

So I started again. Skipped practice and qualifying like last time.

This time two cars under 8View attachment 1504586

I'll run a few laps to see how fast I get to the front again. I would expect similar finishing results including their fast laps being similar. No idea why those two are under 8


Edit: leading by end of lap 4. Would have been 3 again but I spun trying to pass 5th into the complex before the carousel.

Nobody lapped even close to their Q time. Fastest I saw was a 8:24. I turned an 8:12 the lap I passed 1st.

It doesn't explain the whole gap, but I assume that they won't race on soft tyres, so that's 5-10s depending on if they use hard or mediums. Also, I see that they are all doing those fast laps not on their first flying lap. Seems like they have a half empty fuel tank as well. In the race they will have only worn tyres when the fuel tank is near empty, so they never have an ideal combination of both.

Anyway, an unexplained gap remains.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I started the Le mans 24 hours as a test because I couldn't get a dry practice session. I wanted to know tyre wear and fuel use. You know stuff that doesn't matter at all. Anyway most cars including me were on medium tyres and a couple of cars were on softs. One of the cars on softs was stuck behind a bunch of medium runners and wasn't able to pass them. The other started second and passed me in turn one, I always have an issue in turn one at the start of a race because I'm not at full race speed. Anyway this soft runner pulled away from me up to 5 seconds before I started banging in fastest laps and then I caught him up and took the lead. He pitted after 10 laps and had 41 units of fuel left so he'd run out of soft tyre grip. That left me clear in front before the other soft runner pitted after 12 laps. He had 45 units of fuel as he was cooling his heels behind cars he couldn't pass. I pitted after 15 laps with a 10.5 second lead over second place. I am not fast. I was division 5 gold back in GT5P days huge numbers of seconds off the fastest guys. Sophy 3.0 might be able to run in the rain but she's nowhere near as fast as Sophy 2.0. I am disappointed. I was hoping for a close battle with at least one car but if the fastest soft runner is going to pit every 10 laps and I pit every 15 laps then you can see that's not going to be close. I really wanted to do the endurance races in this pack and now I just can't bring myself to do them.

When I did a 9 hour race against Sophy 2.0 I was up to 3rd/ 4th place by three hours into the race. I spent the whole next three hours battling an NSX which seemed awfully attracted to that 3rd place only resolved in my favour when the pitstops happened. Then I closed on the two leaders I waited until I knew I could get to the end with one stop and I stopped for fuel and tyres. I then though since I caught the two leaders up and they were still due a final pitstop that I had it made. The three of us were nose to tail with 20 minutes to go. They pitted and that dropped the 3rd placed car back and I didn't see it again. But the Porsche was second behind me and caught up an improbable amount of time and took the lead back from me. I tried hard to get back on terms with him but had to accept 2nd place. I was okay with that but then at the end of the very last lap the Porsche pitted again and gifted me the win. I've never been less happy with a win but it was still the best race I've ever had in a Gran Turismo game since winning a 9 hour race a GT4 by 6.4 seconds.

I was hoping for races like that from Sophy 3.0 but I'm disappointed.

 

[art3mis]

It doesn't explain the whole gap, but I assume that they won't race on soft tyres, so that's 5-10s depending on if they use hard or mediums. Also, I see that they are all doing those fast laps not on their first flying lap. Seems like they have a half empty fuel tank as well. In the race they will have only worn tyres when the fuel tank is near empty, so they never have an ideal combination of both.

Anyway, an unexplained gap remains.

They will run softs. 1-2 will start on soft, throughout the entire race they'll take all 3 compounds even though hards are never actually needed. Mediums will last a full fuel stint at both the ring and Le Mans

Edit:
So I figured I'd try a custom sophy 2.0 at the Ring.

These settings provide a far more interesting, competitive, and fun race than the PP does.

 

[the Interceptor]

Still looking for evidence of rubber banding or boosting for AI opponents, I ran the Gran Turismo 300 race at Autopolis International yesterday.

I chose the 1 chili variant because I preferred to drive the RWD Silvia over the AWD Impreza. My best laptimes were around a 1:53:x. In practice and qualifying, the best competitor seemed to be De Bruin in the MR 2, who was in the 1:54.x region, although sometimes faster. Still, I finished practice first, qualified first and even managed to stay in front at the start of the race. I then ran my race when I noticed that another competitor, Sasaki in an FTO, came up behind me and slowly gained on me, setting a fastest lap - better than my fastest lap in the whole race - out of nowhere. I still managed to stay in front, but I could only keep him behind me at roughly a 1 second gap. Then, from the second to last lap, he suddenly dropped back further and that was it. Seemed strange to me. Where did he suddenly come from in the race, and if he can drive so fast, why did he never put in these times in practice or qualifying?

So I watched the replay of the race. Afterwards I restarted the whole thing to watch how Sasaki generally performs in practice and qualifying. Here's the thing: the FTO is the only FWD car in this race, all other cars are RWD or 4WD. This means that Sasaki is highly dependent, much more than all the other cars, on the condition and temperature of his front tyres because they are doing all the work, propulsion and steering. Additionally, in terms of PP balancing, GT7 gives FWD cars a "PP bonus" due to their natural disadvantage of doing everything through the front wheels. I regularly run the 700 PP 30 minutes @ Le Mans race and there's a Gr. 4 Suzuki Swift which is always in the top group despite being FWD. The game is designed to give FWD cars a slightly lower PP rating so they can compensate their natural disadvantage in racing due to being FWD by e.g. more horsepower.

So here's what I found out about Sasaki in his Mitsubishi FTO in the Autopolis race: in optimal conditions, he is quite clearly the fastest opponent on the grid, being able to put in low 1:53.x laptimes. His performance however stands and falls with the condition of his front tyres. I monitored tyre temperatures during my race yesterday (I can't see opponents tyre temperatures, just my own) and found that it needs roughly 2 laps (the outlap + 1 extra lap) on this track to get the tyres into optimal working range. This has a quite clear impact on laptimes for the RWD and 4WD cars, but for the FWD Mitsubishi, it decides between life and death because he does everthing through his front tyres. So here's the gist for this race:

• Sasaki in the FTO has the power to put in very fast laptimes, but due to having FWD he can only do this with his tyres in optimal working conditions (temperature and wear).
• Tyre temperature gets ideal around the 3rd lap in this 6 lap race.
• Sasaki drops behind a lot at the start due to FWD grip disadvantage over RWD and 4WD.
• Once going and with his tyres warming up, Sasaki can overtake opponents with his superior straight line speed (the game grants him more horsepower to compensate the FWD disadvantage).
• Once Sasaki has a no more traffic in front of him and has his tyres in the ideal temperature window, he starts to put in these 1:53.x laptimes I'd never seen him do before. This happens around lap 3 in this 6 lap race.
• Around lap 5, his front tyres start to show excessive wear (excessive in respect to non-FWD cars) so he suddenly loses quite some performance. The next fastest opponent, De Bruin, catches up to him and starts to fight him for P2. This fight costs Sasaki more valuable time, so his laptimes suddenly plummet.

So me leading the race, Sasaki suddenly appears behind me in lap 3 and matches/exceeds my laptimes, stays on my tail until lap 5 and then suddenly disappears again. That sure looks like the game boosting him to make the race more exciting for me, but if you look at the evidence, it isn't that.

This just leaves the question: if Sasaki can be so fast, where was he in practice and qualifying? Well, it seems that the AI is not aware of his specific abilities, so he never tries to get in a clean lap (no traffic) with his tyres in ideal working condition. During practice he goes on track, does a few laps, comes back in. By accident he can find himself in a situation with ideal tyres and no traffic, but most often he doesn't. And qualifying (12 minutes) is just too short for him to find this sweet spot. A human driver is aware of this and can put in a good laptime in the right situation, but for the AI, this is just one of the cars. The AI doesn't give the FTO the special strategy it needs to be quick. The 6 lap race on the other hand is long enough so that Sasaki comes into his car's ideal working conditions: warm tyres in lap 3, no traffic in front. In lap 5 his tyres are wearing out, so he drops back.

 

[morpheus9394]

Just finished my first endurance race, 6hr around Suzuka.
The AI was pretty consistent throughout practice, qualifying and race. The top 3 fastest AI guys in practice and qualifying were the ones I was battling throughout the race.
The race itself was pretty straightforward. I was on the normal difficulty (no chillis).

It was tight for the first couple of laps but after that I pulled out a 8s lead, until slow back markers nearly took me out!! They clearly do not understand blue flags, which was something that happened through the race.
Other than that, it was fairly easy.
I think the hardest part was managing the pits stops, tyres and fuel in order to stay ahead and also just trying not to lose focus and not make mistakes, easier said that done over 6hrs

The AI racers seemed to manage their pitstops fairly well though throughout the race until the end where the number 2 did 3 fuel stops in the last few 20mins yet prior to that would was able to do at least 5 laps more than me on a full tank. He was in the Mclaren GT.

Finished in 1st with the 2nd placed AI about 40s behind, 3rd was +1 lap behind.

Overall, really enjoyed the challenge.
I pretty much had to do hotlaps for the whole race to stay ahead. As soon as I relaxed a bit, the AI would start to eat into my lead. I imagine 1 chilli or 2 chillis would have been really challenge, for me a least.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This just leaves the question: if Sasaki can be so fast, where was he in practice and qualifying? Well, it seems that the AI is not aware of his specific abilities, so he never tries to get in a clean lap (no traffic) with his tyres in ideal working condition. During practice he goes on track, does a few laps, comes back in. By accident he can find himself in a situation with ideal tyres and no traffic, but most often he doesn't. And qualifying (12 minutes) is just too short for him to find this sweet spot. A human driver is aware of this and can put in a good laptime in the right situation, but for the AI, this is just one of the cars. The AI doesn't give the FTO the special strategy it needs to be quick. The 6 lap race on the other hand is long enough so that Sasaki comes into his car's ideal working conditions: warm tyres in lap 3, no traffic in front. In lap 5 his tyres are wearing out, so he drops back.

I can tell you these truths this from spending time in the custom races. The specific drivers have no knowledge of pace their behaviors is dependent on two things; collision avoidance and track position.

What does that mean? - The collision avoidance thing is self explanatory, they will try to avoid the cars around them (Sophy less than Reggie). This collision avoidance can lead to change of position. Also, the differences in the car's ability can lead to position changes. The track position determines their aggression and pace. The back markers are least aggressive and slowest, while the top two are the most aggressive and fastest.

So, in your example with Sasaki, he likely ends up in one of those top two advantageous positions through the events of the race.

All this is more visible with the Reggie custom races, but you can see it with Sophy as well. I would prefer they all had similar levels of aggression through the field, but they don't give us access to those parameters 😒

 

[art3mis]

I can tell you these truths this from spending time in the custom races. The specific drivers have no knowledge of pace their behaviors is dependent on two things; collision avoidance and track position.

What does that mean? - The collision avoidance thing is self explanatory, they will try to avoid the cars around them (Sophy less than Reggie). This collision avoidance can lead to change of position. Also, the differences in the car's ability can lead to position changes. The track position determines their aggression and pace. The back markers are least aggressive and slowest, while the top two are the most aggressive and fastest.

So, in your example with Sasaki, he likely ends up in one of those top two advantageous positions through the events of the race.

All this is more visible with the Reggie custom races, but you can see it with Sophy as well. I would prefer they all had similar levels of aggression through the field, but they don't give us access to those parameters 😒

I dunno. When I build a custom grid for the N24, set the right settings for the AI, I get a very competitive from top to bottom grid where it's just as challenging to go from 20 to 15 as it is 5 to 1

 

[benjoi84]

I'm currently working on an attempt at replicating the Power Pack player cars, along with the grids of those events I've finished. I'll expand the grids using similar machinery from my garage, if I end up feeling like it.

I've taken all the stock specs and I'm gonna try to match up the PPs and power:weight, via tuning and aero parts, with a target for each value based on the ones we know. The tyre restriction is a bit of a hurdle, but for the 650-700 PP range I don't mind going with the Racing Hards convention. For slower cars, I think stock tyres might be fine as long I aim for a reasonable PP target.

I'll be using the GT Integrale ruleset for the Custom Race settings, but that'll be a way off yet. There's dozens of cars to do!

Wish me luck!

 

[jrbabbitt]

PD will most likely fix this AI re-fuel glitch on next update and is why I have not gone any further in the PP races...

 

[Voodoovaj]

I dunno. When I build a custom grid for the N24, set the right settings for the AI, I get a very competitive from top to bottom grid where it's just as challenging to go from 20 to 15 as it is 5 to 1

Pay closer attention. It SHOULD be much easier to go from 20-15 compared to 5-1, if you get to 5. It varies on the track unfortunately, for instance, with Sophy at Tokyo, going from 20-15 is SUPER hard and you might not even make it to 10th.

With Reggie, it's pretty consistent across the tracks. On Nurb, it's a bit too varied of a track to notice it, but it does happen. Now that I have told you, you will be looking for it, and you will see it more.

 

[Lomic]

PD will most likely fix this AI re-fuel glitch on next update and is why I have not gone any further in the PP races...

I find you pretty affirmative there 😅 we'll see. Hope you are right.

 

[Nakano219]

I've got to 46/50.

And I have to be honest, as much as the regular Power Pack has been rather fun, I just have no desire to do the endurance races. 62 hours is a lot of time to commit, and I didn't particularly enjoy the GT endurance formula even back in the day when I was younger and less aware of how much time that is.

Kudos to those of you who are up for this, but I for one am glad there's no unique reward behind them because otherwise completionism would drag me to spend a bunch of time not having fun.

 

[Thorson1987]

Finished all the regular races today.

Need to redo 6 of them though to finish first.

Now to figure out how and when to do the enduros.

Also just thought I'd check something in relation to the enduro payouts (I don't need the Cr).

A 24 hour race at Daytona on professional difficulty in Gr. 3 cars only gives you a payout just over 600,000.

 

[OldandSlow]

I've got to 46/50.

And I have to be honest, as much as the regular Power Pack has been rather fun, I just have no desire to do the endurance races. 62 hours is a lot of time to commit, and I didn't particularly enjoy the GT endurance formula even back in the day when I was younger and less aware of how much time that is.

Kudos to those of you who are up for this, but I for one am glad there's no unique reward behind them because otherwise completionism would drag me to spend a bunch of time not having fun.

Agreed. I liked the PP races. I can’t see myself doing the endurance races either.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Agreed. I liked the PP races. I can’t see myself doing the endurance races either.

I did the 6 hour and the 8 hour for curiosity. I likely won't do the 24 hour races.


Also, reading through the thread and debates about the difficulty, it dawned upon me that the community might not understand "difficulty" as it pertains to GT. In GT "difficulty" is, and has always been, about the relative difficulty of the other vehicles, not the AI. The AI never changes.

When you go into the settings of the base game and set it to 2 peppers, it changes the make up of the opposition in some events. That's why it cannot apply to all events. It merely changes the opposition relative to you. This has always been the case. Some people ask why we can't get more difficulty, and we can, but you might not like it.

In GT5, when we had the hack, we could set the AI difficulty to "10". What that did was set the AI to have the highest PP cars in the game. The AI stayed the same, but the cars were faster. It's still like that. If you set the difficulty to professional in the custom races and choose "random" opponents, you get a larger gap in PP to your car.

Now, I'll be honest, I thought this was a widely known and accepted aspect of the game, but I am increasingly believing that people have no idea.

IMHO, Sophy is capable of altering this fact, but as of right now, they have maintained the same philosophy.

 

[soc123_au]

Finished all the regular races today.

Need to redo 6 of them though to finish first.

Now to figure out how and when to do the enduros.

Also just thought I'd check something in relation to the enduro payouts (I don't need the Cr).

A 24 hour race at Daytona on professional difficulty in Gr. 3 cars only gives you a payout just over 600,000.

Vote: Thorsons Phone

Glad to see you aren't dead. Ha ha.

I just started the 6hr Suzuka one. It would be so much better with a "save" option instead of the pause and shut down, but still much better than nothing. No way I could do these in one stint, and just pause ties up the Playstation so the kids can't use it.

 

[Thorson1987]

Vote: Thorsons Phone

Glad to see you aren't dead. Ha ha.

I just started the 6hr Suzuka one. It would be so much better with a "save" option instead of the pause and shut down, but still much better than nothing. No way I could do these in one stint, and just pause ties up the Playstation so the kids can't use it.

Holy crap that's a name I haven't seen in years.

Good old Slut Drinks.

BTW, **** the Panthers.

 

[art3mis]

The best part of being bombed into La Source is that there's a huge concrete wall right there to door the AI into. Really slows them down lolol

 

[Monkey Man]

That's a great question and one that i wish I had an answer to. I'll re-start the race this afternoon and take a screenshot of the qualifying order. Maybe my brain scrambled the numbers in my memory after watching my own numbers for so long lol!

None of the AI at Le Mans had a fast lap as fast as their Q time but none of them were 30 seconds slower than their Q time. I have to wonder if the sub 8 I remember wasn't somewhat of a glitched time. Since Q is only 45 minutes maybe I'll just spectate Serrano the whole time and see what he does lol

After "enduring" Rory's stream of the 24h race I can confirm that it's just the way quali and the race pans out.

In his race, the top driver pulled a 7:56 in quali. Rory had the best race-lap time of 8:15. He did a few high-teen laps but that was when he was focussed on achieving the fastest lap he could in-the-race.

When he averaged 8:20 -> 8:29 he pulled a 48-second lead before things went pear-shaped.
When he averaged 8:34 -> 8:39 he lost time to P1 but stalemated P9 ->P11.

 

[art3mis]

While I understand math and percentages and statistics fairly well I still don't understand how 50% chance of rain at Le Mans PP endurance translates to "it rains 100% of the races I start".


Like I've completed twice, started an additional 10 times and every single time it rains within the first 4 hours

 

[savior972]

While I understand math and percentages and statistics fairly well I still don't understand how 50% chance of rain at Le Mans PP endurance translates to "it rains 100% of the races I start".


Like I've completed twice, started an additional 10 times and every single time it rains within the first 4 hours

I think the 50% chance of rain refers to the 24-hour period and not that it only rains every other race.

 

[Blade_Rudder]

While I understand math and percentages and statistics fairly well I still don't understand how 50% chance of rain at Le Mans PP endurance translates to "it rains 100% of the races I start".


Like I've completed twice, started an additional 10 times and every single time it rains within the first 4 hours

That’s a question for us Northern Europeans, as we specialise in inclement weather. Think of the the % as potential for rain at any given moment and 50% suddenly becomes - rain Is inevitable! Here’s a quote from a popular weather app - “The daily chance of precipitation tends to be higher than the chance for each hour.”

 

[art3mis]

I think the 50% chance of rain refers to the 24-hour period and not that it only rains every other race.

100% of my Le Mans races hit the 50% chance of rain in the 24 hour period.

That’s a question for us Northern Europeans, as we specialise in inclement weather. Think of the the % as potential for rain at any given moment and 50% suddenly becomes - rain Is inevitable! Here’s a quote from a popular weather app - “The daily chance of precipitation tends to be higher than the chance for each hour.”

I think the problem is that PD isn't communicating correctly what PD is trying to communicate.
I say this because forecasting percentages works this way:
If the forecaster is 80% certain rain will happen but is only expected to impact 50% of the forecast area that's a 40% chance of rain for any given location within the forecast area.

If the forecaster is 100% certain there will be rain but only 40% certain that it will impact the forecast area that's also a 40% chance of rain.

Honestly PD would have been better off saying "Random Weather" vs "% Rain"

 

[jrbabbitt]

While I understand math and percentages and statistics fairly well I still don't understand how 50% chance of rain at Le Mans PP endurance translates to "it rains 100% of the races I start".


Like I've completed twice, started an additional 10 times and every single time it rains within the first 4 hours

To qoute Jason Statham in "Truth in 24":
"It always rains at Le Mans"