What do you think PD will show at TGS?

[another_jakhole]

suuuure. Facts are available on the internet, look for yourself. A selling date that game stores, toy stores, department stores etc. all offered deals for GT5 is irrelevant to GT6 in the most spendy country in the world

You mean Europe? Yep, the country EUROPE is the largest market for GT.

haha Seriously, I wonder if Europe will be as large of a consumer base as it was for GT5. A lot of naysayers thought GT5 would be a flop. haha It's just fauny.

 

[dr_slump]

Europe is no country and it never was...


And most likely GT6 sales in the EU will outnumber the NA sales by quite a margin.

 

[VenomDan]

And most likely GT6 sales in the EU will outnumber the NA sales by quite a margin.

I believe that 👍

 

[dr_slump]

I actually wanted to say Europe and not European Union, but whatever.

 

[another_jakhole]

Europe is no country and it never was...


And most likely GT6 sales in the EU will outnumber the NA sales by quite a margin.

Africa, country!

It was a stupid "joke."

In my mind and others', if you compare the U.S. to any other COUNTRY, there will be a great disparity in popularity. But, if you compare the U.S. to a continent, it wouldn't be totally fair/right. People say that EU is GT's target market, but if you compare it to the market of the great 'ol U S of A, there's a great difference we should take into account.

Anyway, the U.S. of A is great.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't imply people rush out to pre order games on a specific day. But if you know what Black Friday is, you know it's christmas shopping. It's also time the majority of holiday shopping is done. Not only that, but a large part of purchases are done by parents on that day.

Black Friday actually only represents about 10% of holiday purchases and holiday purchases being 20% of overall retail sales, means that Black Friday is 2% of overall retail sales in the U.S. Yes it's a big shopping day, but not as big as most people think it is.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/demand/f/Black_Friday.htm

 

[Samus]

Also it's much more about bargain hunting than normal price pre orders.

 

[Tornado]

So you're rehashing the same counter arguments I just answered.

Because you're not actually acknowledging the arguments so much as rehashing your answers every time a new flaw is pointed out. The fact is that regardless of whether or not the United States is the single largest country, it's small potatoes compared to the European market and retail sale seasons (real or otherwise) that only occur in that one country are irrelevant to the larger markets that don't follow them; hence why Sony wouldn't be tailoring the information release dates to that one country over the others. The "rush," as it were, is because people in other countries probably would like to have that information sooner rather than later to determine whether they would like to preorder rather than waiting because a smaller market has a day of the year where people trample each other at Wal-Marts to save $50 on TVs.

Irrelevant? Sorry. That makes no sense. You're looking for some reason to argue my statement. It's not irrelevant to have more detailed information on the game before the U.S. holiday shopping season comes out.

The specific day you chose to represent when it was important for PD to have all information available to potential buyers is irrelevant when the day holds no significance to anyone outside the US. Propping it up with "it's the biggest market for the PS3" or "it's the biggest single sales for the series" doesn't change that regardless of the validity of those two statements.

A look at the data from GT5 and you can see pre orders INCREASING per week the closer it got to release.

That's not what that graph actually shows. That graph shows that preorders continued at roughly the same pace (with a very slight uptick starting 6 weeks from launch) from when they began up until they stopped being tracked, because it is tracking total preorders rather than the preorders of every week. A graph representing what you are talking about using a total number as one of the axis labels would look closer to this:

As the continued weekly growth would make each data point higher and higher in relation to the total, rather than roughly the same increases to it as each week goes by.

And VGChartz isn't a reputable source of information to begin with since much of the time their information are just guesses (that are occasionally changed once contradictory hard data is made available).

Says you. Not business or statistical facts. The pre orders usually indicate how well a game will sell.

That is true. The two are still not the same.

And as you can see with the chart and other charts, the final week usually has the highest pre orders. That final week starts right after black friday/cyber monday.

That graph you provided not only doesn't show a notable increase in the final data point compared to the previous two, but the data also stops 4 weeks before the game's release.



And, again, that's still assuming that there will be large numbers of copies available for preorder a week away from release.

 

[trustjab]

Black Friday actually only represents about 10% of holiday purchases and holiday purchases being 20% of overall retail sales, means that Black Friday is 2% of overall retail sales in the U.S. Yes it's a big shopping day, but not as big as most people think it is.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/demand/f/Black_Friday.htm

Regardless of how "big" it is, more shopping takes place on that day than any other. Which is what I said.

Because you're not actually acknowledging the arguments so much as rehashing your answers every time a new flaw is pointed out. The fact is that regardless of whether or not the United States is the single largest country, it's small potatoes compared to the European market and retail sale seasons (real or otherwise) that only occur in that one country are irrelevant to the larger markets that don't follow them; hence why Sony wouldn't be tailoring the information release dates to that one country over the others. The "rush," as it were, is because people in other countries probably would like to have that information sooner rather than later to determine whether they would like to preorder rather than waiting because a smaller market has a day of the year where people trample each other at Wal-Marts to save $50 on TVs.

You don't get it. I explained myself numerous times. I used that date because it lies one week before the release date. The stats show that pre orders increase by week closer to release. That date is the biggest single shopping day in the U.S. The U.S. IS the biggest single country in terms of sales. What other connection am I making that's infallable?

The specific day you chose to represent when it was important for PD to have all information available to potential buyers is irrelevant when the day holds no significance to anyone outside the US. Propping it up with "it's the biggest market for the PS3" or "it's the biggest single sales for the series" doesn't change that regardless of the validity of those two statements.

You're wrong. First I said it was ONE WEEK BEFORE RELEASE. Then gave other reasons that the world, NOT JUST THE U.S. would benefit from news before then.

That's not what that graph actually shows. That graph shows that preorders continued at roughly the same pace (with a very slight uptick starting 6 weeks from launch) from when they began up until they stopped being tracked, because it is tracking total preorders rather than the preorders of every week. A graph representing what you are talking about using a total number as one of the axis labels would look closer to this:

As the continued weekly growth would make each data point higher and higher in relation to the total, rather than roughly the same increases to it as each week goes by.

And VGChartz isn't a reputable source of information to begin with since much of the time their information are just guesses (that are occasionally changed once contradictory hard data is made available).

It doesn't matter what the chart looks like. The chart shows increases on the weekly scale. As does the numbers from that website and numerous other sources. And if you don't trust their numbers, then look at this very site for news on how it increased closer to its release. https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5-sales-increase-1300-on-amazon-after-release-date-announcement/comment-page-1/. Funny how the stats go up close to release date information being said. Even in his article he speaks of the black friday mystique! I guess its a useless notion on my part to mention black friday, huh?

That is true. The two are still not the same.

No one suggested they were. Pre orders for a game are a strong indicator of the amount of sales. You want numbers on those too?

That graph you provided not only doesn't show a notable increase in the final data point compared to the previous two, but the data also stops 4 weeks before the game's release.

So you deny a chart and a website that I gave but provide no counter? Even gtplanet and amazon show the same trend.

And, again, that's still assuming that there will be large numbers of copies available for preorder a week away from release.

I don't assume anything of the sort. PD have said no delay and with the things being left out I can see the urgency of meeting the release date.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Regardless of how "big" it is, more shopping takes place on that day than any other. Which is what I said.

You don't get it. I explained myself numerous times. I used that date because it lies one week before the release date. The stats show that pre orders increase by week closer to release. That date is the biggest single shopping day in the U.S. The U.S. IS the biggest single country in terms of sales. What other connection am I making that's infallable?


You're wrong. First I said it was ONE WEEK BEFORE RELEASE. Then gave other reasons that the world, NOT JUST THE U.S. would benefit from news before then.

It doesn't matter what the chart looks like. The chart shows increases on the weekly scale. As does the numbers from that website and numerous other sources. And if you don't trust their numbers, then look at this very site for news on how it increased closer to its release. https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5-sales-increase-1300-on-amazon-after-release-date-announcement/comment-page-1/. Funny how the stats go up close to release date information being said. Even in his article he speaks of the black friday mystique! I guess its a useless notion on my part to mention black friday, huh?


No one suggested they were. Pre orders for a game are a strong indicator of the amount of sales. You want numbers on those too?


So you deny a chart and a website that I gave but provide no counter? Even gtplanet and amazon show the same trend.


I don't assume anything of the sort. PD have said no delay and with the things being left out I can see the urgency of meeting the release date.

Given that Black Friday is 2% of U.S. retail sales and the U.S. is destined to sell maybe 1,000,000 units next year, that translates to 20,000 units. Considering most shoppers on Black Friday are bargain hunters because all the normal people stay home, and the game is full price, and there is no physical game, just pre-orders at limited locations, I'd doubt more than a handful will be sold on that particular day. It's nothing, it's over rated, it's a pimple on a...you know...

And according to Time Business and Money, Black Friday is on it's way out anyway...

http://business.time.com/2013/09/26/black-friday-is-facing-extinction/?hpt=hp_t5

 

[Fgame]

Africa, country!

It was a stupid "joke."

In my mind and others', if you compare the U.S. to any other COUNTRY, there will be a great disparity in popularity. But, if you compare the U.S. to a continent, it wouldn't be totally fair/right. People say that EU is GT's target market, but if you compare it to the market of the great 'ol U S of A, there's a great difference we should take into account.

Anyway, the U.S. of A is great.

Europe or the EU is not a continent.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The GTPlanet article speaks of Black Friday since it was going to be happening after the game's release, so would naturally be a physical commodity (for a current, popular system) for the crazed shoppers of BF2010.

With two next-gen systems coming out right around the time of Black Friday, in the month prior to GT6's release, GT5's pre-release info is not going to give an accurate portrayal of GT6's.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Europe or the EU is not a continent.

Europe is not a continent? Since when?

 

[Tornado]

It doesn't matter what the chart looks like.

Except you're making the statement that preorders accelerate as the release date draws near:

A look at the data from GT5 and you can see pre orders INCREASING per week the closer it got to release.

And as you can see with the chart and other charts, the final week usually has the highest pre orders.

The stats show that pre orders increase by week closer to release.

And this chart you provided to prove that:

Does not show acceleration as the time wore down, besides a barely perceptible (since the data points themselves are not labeled) uptick starting in week 7 that continued at the same pace throughout week 4 when the data stopped. So it is in fact very important what the chart looks like, because your chart shows that the weekly preorders stayed roughly the same the entire time they were graphed.

And looking at a more detailed chart:

Show's the preorder rate going all over the place in the final 7 weeks before a final burst in the last week (which is offset by the activity in Week 6).

And if you don't trust their numbers, then look at this very site for news on how it increased closer to its release. https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5-sales-increase-1300-on-amazon-after-release-date-announcement/comment-page-1/.

1300% over what previous number, exactly? What the preorder rate was after the game missed it's very publicized release date and languished for two weeks with no new one announced when preorders undoubtedly dropped as a result? Or 1300% over what it was making in preorders before it was originally delayed in the first place? Because that's a pretty important distinction for your argument, and that piece doesn't clarify which it is.


In fact, going back to the more detailed chart than the one you provided:

Show's the preorder totals going down following the announcement of the game's final delay, meaning people were outright canceling their preorders as a result, so it seems safe to say that it's the former. Perhaps (I'm sure) you'll disagree.

So you deny a chart and a website that I gave but provide no counter? Even gtplanet and amazon show the same trend.

I denied the chart you gave because you don't actually understand what it says since you're using it to argue something it doesn't actually show; and I denied the website that provided the chart's data because it's known to be unreliable in its reporting to the extent that they retroactively change their numbers to match hard data when it becomes clear that their data was wrong. I provided no counter data because I'm not the one making the claim in the first place; and Amazon's data (which GTP merely reported rather than collected so it isn't a separate source of information) has the rather large hole in it pointed out above.

I don't assume anything of the sort. PD have said no delay and with the things being left out I can see the urgency of meeting the release date.

Which means that the release date will be the same. Which means stores may already sell out their preorder allotments by the one week mark, or simply stop accepting them so close to the release date. Which means you're assuming that there will be substantial amount of copies available to be preordered on that date to significantly alter the sales due to how "major" Black Friday is as a date.

 

[Imari]

Europe or the EU is not a continent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

Europe is a continent. The EU is a political construct.

 

[Crispy]

Europe or the EU is not a continent.

Europe is a continent, the EU is an organization of countries.

Pre Order sales are only related to actual game sales in the sense that anyone who pre orders the game will buy it. Just cause a game sells a lot of pre orders, doesn't mean the game will sell well. Just because a game sells well, doesn't mean it's a good game.

 

[tpark103]

Europe is no country and it never was... And most likely GT6 sales in the EU will outnumber the NA sales by quite a margin.

Thats a factual statement. EU is made up of 50 international sovereign states of these 44 have have there Capitol city within Europe. North America on the other hand, we have Mexico, Canada, and the U.S.A.

 

[Fgame]

I would say Eurasia is the continent and Europe just part of it. When I was at school there were only 5 continents in the world. Depending on convention models there are either 4,5,6 or 7 continents.
For me Europe is a region area.

Wiki continents:

 

[tpark103]

I would say Eurasia is the continent and Europe just part of it. When I was at school there were only 5 continents in the world. Depending on convention models there are either 4,5,6 or 7 continents. For me Europe is a region area. Wiki continents:

I was never good at that stuff when I did it the first time around.. and trust me it was quite some time ago. I almost forgot what point we were trying to prove after the geography lesson.. Thanks for the knowledge

 

[dr_slump]

Thats a factual statement. EU is made up of 50 international sovereign states of these 44 have have there Capitol city within Europe. North America on the other hand, we have Mexico, Canada, and the U.S.A.

28 states

No idea where you got your numbers from.

 

[snowgt]

28 states

No idea where you got your numbers from.

He was mixing up "EU" and "Europe", I would say. 47 sovereign nations at least partly in Europe.

Oh, it must be so confusing for non-europeans.

 

[Samus]

He's still going on about black Friday? Wow.

 

[PepeMickey]

I thought this was about TGS and the pitiful presentation GT6 had.

 

[Foxiol]

I would say Eurasia is the continent and Europe just part of it. When I was at school there were only 5 continents in the world. Depending on convention models there are either 4,5,6 or 7 continents.
For me Europe is a region area.

Wiki continents:

Since when Australia is a continent?

Australia is a country in a continent called "Oceania" where you have tons of islands, New Zealand, etc...go tell a Zealander that he lives in Australia...lol

Then you have America (divided in three parts: North America -Canada-USA-Mexico-, South America -from Argentina up to Panama´s canal- and since I was in college Centre America were all those little countries between Mexico and Panama) , Europe (from Spain to the border with Russia), Asia and Africa.

Antarctica is taken by a continent as well.

Europe is not a region and not a part of it...is a whole continent alone and Asia is other continent. Both united form Eurasia but is not taken as a whole continent.


I also read one thing right now and that´s why "we are confused", and that is that in some countries where people speak in English (USA, Canada, UK) and despite the language in China as well, at school they learn continents in a different way than in the rest of the world. (not sure why, maybe because you want to feel special, not a clue really...lol)

In resume:

So for North Americans and Chinese goes like this: North America, South America (not sure why you divide America in half), Europe, Asia (but you join it so ends up called Eurasia), Africa, Australia (which to me this is so wrong in some many ways) and Antarctica. (which for some is not considered a continent yet)
So for you there are 7 in total.

But I was born in Uruguay and now I live in Spain, and in both countries we learn this way: America (divided in 3 parts/regions, South, Centre and North), Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania (Australia as a country which is in it) and Antarctica.
So for "us" there are 6 counting Antarctica.

Eurasia is called that way because both continents (Europe and Asia) are in the very same tectonic plate. So in conjunction you can call them a whole continent but tell that to an European or a guy from Asia...lol
Also as a reference, Turkey has a famous city called Istambul (the former Byzantium and then Constantinople)...which is known because is "divided" in 2 parts...one is in Europe and one in Asia.

Australia can be taken as a continent alone because of its size but it is not because is just a single country, and the rest of islands (for example New Zealand, New Guinea and such) are not a part of it of course.


Also one more huge reference...the Olympics. The symbol of the Olympics are 5 rings and each one of them represent 5 continents which are: America, Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania. (Antarctica is not represented of course since there is no country to take part from there)


Let´s hope to see a guy from Australia say something about this because this is a mess...I can´t believe we (people from the very same world) learn different stuff just because we speak different or live in a different part of the world.

This is so wrong...



Edited and fixed some bits. I did a better research.

 

[avens]

^There are two sources of why Fgame was taught like that:
- In the US they teach America = US. For them there's no such a thing as the American continent....called America.
- They don't use the correct map for displaying sizes, so they think the US is massive compared to the rest of the world. Also the most used map shows it being at the top, when in reality it might as well be at the bottom on a corner.

On the latter note, everyone should take a look at the peters projection, outline the specific US territory and then flip the image: seems quite small and that's the real size.
http://thegandr.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/peters-vs-mercator.png

With that said there's no way they can call themselves America nor think North America is separate than south and central america, or that other entire continents are too small to be separate from the rest.

 

[Foxiol]

^There are two sources of why Fgame was taught like that:
- In the US they teach America = US. For them there's no such a thing as the American continent....called America.
- They don't use the correct map for displaying sizes, so they think the US is massive compared to the rest of the world. Also the most used map shows it being at the top, when in reality it might as well be at the bottom on a corner.

On the latter note, everyone should take a look at the peters projection, outline the specific US territory and then flip the image: seems quite small and that's the real size.
http://thegandr.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/peters-vs-mercator.png

With that said there's no way they can call themselves America nor think North America is separate than south and central america, or that other entire continents are too small to be separate from the rest.

Wow never saw that actually or never paid enough attention to it and I loved geography at school back in the days (I´m 28 right now so almost like 20 years by now).

If you actually use Google earth you can see the actual sizes and those should be the 1/1, so the problems are when they try to make a plain of it like in your example, sizes are not that accurate.
In Mercator projection Antarctica is very bad when it comes to proportions...it looks huge. lol

(we are going out of topic way too much...thanks to add that )

 

[Fgame]

I will accept and others should also that there are 4/5/6/7 continents. There is no agreed number.
A continent has been defined as "a large, continuous area of land on Earth"
Which is why the continents can simply be identified as:
Africa
America
Australia
Eurasia
Antarctica

This system also makes it much easier to colour in maps with felt tips or pencils.
For which reason alone should make it definitive for education purposes.

 

[avens]

^I think it is simpler to just keep it like it has always been, separating Europe from Asia.

I'm still dizzy, confused and maybe a bit angry about Pluto not being a planet anymore.

 

[Foxiol]

^I think it is simpler to just keep it like it has always been, separating Europe from Asia.

I'm still dizzy, confused and maybe a bit angry about Pluto not being a planet anymore.

Agreed and sad about Pluto too. 👍

Still about calling Australia instead of Oceania feels so wrong to me. For me it will still be Oceania (I learned that way) and for sure to the people who lives there.

 

[Fgame]

But with the relegation of Pluto, we gain a new family of orbiting bodies, of which Pluto is one of the kings. Instead of being the runt of planets.