- 2,620
- Blaze_409
I am referring to the Rolex 24. That race did not feature 15 cars.
2014 United Sports Car Championship
- Thread starter Earth
- 6,133 comments
- 238,931 views
I am referring to the Rolex 24. That race did not feature 15 cars.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
Sadly that's the case.
Look at AMA and you'll see how bad NASCAR can EFF things up!
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It is obvious that LMP is going to die in the US, so reality is that they should just drop the silly DP class and stick to GT-E racing wich is way more relevant than some ugly chassis pretending to be a road car and is proven to be the best racing anyways!
- 7,986
- GTP_Royalton
First details?
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/grand-am-details-of-alms-unification-emerge/
Sounds like we're only going to hear half the story tomorrow. I think the bosses behind the scene aren't even exactly sure what is going to happen in 2014 in terms of classes, races, etc.
- 34,626
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
One positive sign for those worried about the French Connection here:
Abit early but see? I've repeatidly heard people claim how it'll be a NASCAR takeover and they'll kill off the global connection and I've repeatidly brought the Talks Grand-Am had with the FIA as well as the visit to the WEC event with the ACO. This right here (assuming its true) is proof that there isn't some draconian NASCAR sweep. Already, my nervousness has calm quite abit, I'm actually abit more excited then nervous now and feel even more optimistic.
Wait, they own AMA? Thats news to me. Also, exactly how did they mess that up?
Abit early but see? I've repeatidly heard people claim how it'll be a NASCAR takeover and they'll kill off the global connection and I've repeatidly brought the Talks Grand-Am had with the FIA as well as the visit to the WEC event with the ACO. This right here (assuming its true) is proof that there isn't some draconian NASCAR sweep. Already, my nervousness has calm quite abit, I'm actually abit more excited then nervous now and feel even more optimistic.
Wait, they own AMA? Thats news to me. Also, exactly how did they mess that up?
- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
They bought it arround 3 years ago and managed to drive away all the manufacturers with their stupid dumbing down of things! Hopefully they won't be too stupid and drive away McLaren who just managed to convince the ACO to allow their carbon fiber monocoque car.
- 34,626
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Judging from the article regarding the merger, I think you don't need to worry about that. Don't know if you watch Grand-Am prior to all this, but they managed to have talks with the FIA, attract Audi and bring back Ferrari so even before the merger their are signs that there isn't much to worry about there
- 2,620
- Blaze_409
I should clear this up. I just noticed that I said "30dp" i did not mean jsut DP. I meant the series as a whole.! Regardless you miss the point. It does not matter what kind of car makes up the 30-50 GRand-Am field of a dAytona race. When you add that to the possible 30-50 people from ACO sportscar you cannot fit all those people at Daytona for the 24 hour.
The D24 is part of the ROlex Sports car points paying calendar. The LM24 is part of the FIA WEC poitns paying calendar. "Make the D24 an invitational" you say. So how do you justify excluding full season Rolex or FIA WEC entrants from a points paying race for there separate calendars. Therefore its simple logic to conclude that we will not see the D24 become a joint FIAWEC and Rolex round.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
The WEC won't involve themselves in the D24. My guess is that GrandLMS will cut Sebring altogether, and it'll become a WEC-Only event. The D24 will become the "Big" ALM-Am enduro.
In addition, I'm thinking that some of the bigger teams (Corvette, possibly Flying Lizard) will likely head to the WEC, and ditch the GrandAm series altogether.
One thing is certain, some of the GT teams will get lost in the fray. If Corvette stays, it would make Wheelen look pretty pathetic, since P&M basically have the Corvette program on lock. Also, I'd expect the number of people running a Porsche to shrink substantially. If Flying Lizard leaves its 2 cars in the new series, that'll make 8 or 9(Including GTC) Porsche's to supplement Brumos, and the others.
Heres a question- When Grand-Am takes over, will everyone still have to use Continental tires? That would basically sink Falken-Porsche. And I dont see Corvette being too gung-ho dropping Michelin, since they've worked together for so long to develop good tyres.
In addition, I'm thinking that some of the bigger teams (Corvette, possibly Flying Lizard) will likely head to the WEC, and ditch the GrandAm series altogether.
One thing is certain, some of the GT teams will get lost in the fray. If Corvette stays, it would make Wheelen look pretty pathetic, since P&M basically have the Corvette program on lock. Also, I'd expect the number of people running a Porsche to shrink substantially. If Flying Lizard leaves its 2 cars in the new series, that'll make 8 or 9(Including GTC) Porsche's to supplement Brumos, and the others.
Heres a question- When Grand-Am takes over, will everyone still have to use Continental tires? That would basically sink Falken-Porsche. And I dont see Corvette being too gung-ho dropping Michelin, since they've worked together for so long to develop good tyres.
- 2,620
- Blaze_409
Its tough for some private American teams to simply decide they want to travel around the world to do WEC. Expensive flights for all crew members. Corvette can do it easily because they are factory. FLM,RLL,ESM etc don't really have that option. Hoepfully GTE is still included. It will all become clear soon.
- 34,626
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I wouldn't be so sure about that, Corvette racing could definately since they have the deep pockets as can ESM and probably Falken as well. FLM and others however, I'm not so sure. Remember that the economy is still in the crapper so that leaves the logistics travel with all the equipment and so forth still at abit of a strain at present.
This is one of those details I'm not sure has been worked out quite yet. Tire wars is yet to be worked out, though I'd think it be far less strain to just have everyone continue to run on their current tires for the time being during the first year of the new series. That means only the DPs and Grand-Am GTs will run on Pirellis while everyone else continues with the likes of Michelin and Falken and Goodyear(assuming anyone is still using them).
- 7,937
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
- 2,690
- Titan
Scott Atherton also said that the GT class in ALMS will probably remain unchanged, or at least minimally impacted. So that sounds reasonable.
Otherwise, it sounds intriguing. It may turn out badly, but from this event I remain somewhat optimistic.
The only thing that slightly bothers me is that the combined calendar that Scott put out as an 'aim' was only 12 events. When I count the unique courses that ALMS and Grand Am go to, I count about 18. I wouldn't mind losing some of the less-exciting courses, but still...which ones will go I wonder. (Some like Barber, Homestead, New Jersey, Baltimore, Detroit perhaps....but it all comes down to money and attendance) EDIT: And, the capacity of the tracks. Although we don't know how many cars will be running. I imagine a reasonably large field though.
Daytona
Sebring
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Detroit Belle Isle
Lime Rock
Watkins Glen
Mosport
Mid-Ohio
Road America
Montreal (Circuit Gilles Villeneuve)
Baltimore
VIR
Petit (Road Atlanta)
Barber Motorsports Park
Homestead Miami Speedway
New Jersey Motorsports Park
Indy
Otherwise, it sounds intriguing. It may turn out badly, but from this event I remain somewhat optimistic.
The only thing that slightly bothers me is that the combined calendar that Scott put out as an 'aim' was only 12 events. When I count the unique courses that ALMS and Grand Am go to, I count about 18. I wouldn't mind losing some of the less-exciting courses, but still...which ones will go I wonder. (Some like Barber, Homestead, New Jersey, Baltimore, Detroit perhaps....but it all comes down to money and attendance) EDIT: And, the capacity of the tracks. Although we don't know how many cars will be running. I imagine a reasonably large field though.
Daytona
Sebring
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Detroit Belle Isle
Lime Rock
Watkins Glen
Mosport
Mid-Ohio
Road America
Montreal (Circuit Gilles Villeneuve)
Baltimore
VIR
Petit (Road Atlanta)
Barber Motorsports Park
Homestead Miami Speedway
New Jersey Motorsports Park
Indy
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- 3,239
- New York
- thepatriots
Summary of ALMS/Grand Am merger press conference:
The Good:
- ALMS and Grand Am will be merging into one series so we can finally stop debating which is better.
- ALMS link with Le Mans is "planned" to be kept.
- ALMS CEO Atherton is pretty ****ing adamant to keep ALMS's GT class as is. Good
- Combined schedule means ALMS and GA cars will be racing on some pretty great tracks. Watkins Glen and Sebring in one series. Yes please.
- Jim France and Don Panoz are actually not enemies and seem to genuinely like each other.
- Both sides want international involvement and presence.
- The upside if this works is great.
The Bad:
- Nothing except the fact that the type series are merging has been written in stone. In other words we know nothing.
- The only minefield bigger than this merger is the DMZ separating North and Sourth Korea. From different rules, regulations, teams, sponsors, investors, ACO, FIA, NASCAR, etc, etc how on earth is the fan going to come out on top? Not that it cannot be done but it is going to take a monumental effort.
- Daytona 24hr is opening the season and the Daytona road course is boring.
- FIA/ACO relationship is tenuous
- No mention of 2014 spec FIA/ACO Le Mans Prototypes.
- NASCAR is NASCAR for better or for worse... mostly worse.
This is what I would like to see for a schedule (based on the 12 number state in the presser):
Daytona (locked)
Sebring (locked)
Baltimore
Lime Rock
Watkins Glen
Mosport
Mid Ohio
Circuit of The Americas
Laguna Seca
Road America
Indy
Petit (Road Atlanta)
The Good:
- ALMS and Grand Am will be merging into one series so we can finally stop debating which is better.
- ALMS link with Le Mans is "planned" to be kept.
- ALMS CEO Atherton is pretty ****ing adamant to keep ALMS's GT class as is. Good
- Combined schedule means ALMS and GA cars will be racing on some pretty great tracks. Watkins Glen and Sebring in one series. Yes please.
- Jim France and Don Panoz are actually not enemies and seem to genuinely like each other.
- Both sides want international involvement and presence.
- The upside if this works is great.
The Bad:
- Nothing except the fact that the type series are merging has been written in stone. In other words we know nothing.
- The only minefield bigger than this merger is the DMZ separating North and Sourth Korea. From different rules, regulations, teams, sponsors, investors, ACO, FIA, NASCAR, etc, etc how on earth is the fan going to come out on top? Not that it cannot be done but it is going to take a monumental effort.
- Daytona 24hr is opening the season and the Daytona road course is boring.
- FIA/ACO relationship is tenuous
- No mention of 2014 spec FIA/ACO Le Mans Prototypes.
- NASCAR is NASCAR for better or for worse... mostly worse.
This is what I would like to see for a schedule (based on the 12 number state in the presser):
Daytona (locked)
Sebring (locked)
Baltimore
Lime Rock
Watkins Glen
Mosport
Mid Ohio
Circuit of The Americas
Laguna Seca
Road America
Indy
Petit (Road Atlanta)
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- 3,575
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
That's an awesome schedule, and that's not even including Long Beach! Not to mention Detroit (they'll be racing there at least two more years) and Sonoma. Heck, who's to say the schedule doesn't get longer as a result of this (maybe not right away)? Imagine a Sports car series that has almost 20+ races on the schedule! Depending on the strength of the series, they could have tracks clamoring to get them to get a spot on their schedule.
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- 34,626
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
From what I watched it all sounded good, nice to see Ed Brown helping out, makes up for his "driving"Just kidding. Really looking forward to it!
Yeah, I just gained much more respect for that guy when I found that out. I almost get the feeling there never was a rivalry to begin with, just two series that happened to pop up, unlike Open Wheel which was an actual split, resulting in basically two groups who couldn't compromise.
- 3,575
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I believe there was a rivalry, just not a nasty one. IMSA basically dissolved and split in half with two different groups having two different sets of interests in mind. Grand-Am wanted to be reasonable cost-effective American Racing, while ALMS wanted to be innovative and exciting semi-international American racing.
Ultimately, like CART and IRL, they were weaker when separate. With the two forces combining, you have a stronger schedule and an overall easier-to-sell package. It's easier on sponsors and manufacturers, since they no longer have to choose about which series will get them the best exposure.
I'm curious about what might happen with Chevrolet, however. Since they'll essentially be contributing cars to three classes (assuming the Stevenson Camaro's stick around into the next homologation of Grand-Am GT cars). It'll be interesting to see Corvette DP's and Corvette Racing C6.R's on track at the same time.
My biggest questions still:
-Where does the American DTM fit into all this? Is it a secondary series? I'm pretty sure it won't be a class within the group.
-Where does Grand-Am's new GX class fit into this? What is the GX class supposed to be anyways? (New Technology, yeah. But how does a Diesel Mazda Engine and a complete Lotus Evora compete? Is it essentially tweaked Grand-Am GT cars?)
-Will any of the classes adapt into a Pro-Am style?
-What are the chances of seeing a full-blown FIA GT3 car class in the series? Instead of a watered-down GT3 that we're seeing in the Ferrari's and Audi's. (I honestly think that the SCCA World Challenge would be a better fit for FIA GT3, though.)
SuperShouden
(Banned)
- 7,542
- SuperShouden
I think the classes will be the hardest thing to nail down. As it stands with combining the classes of ALMS and RSCS you have:
1. LMP1
2. LMP2
3. LMPC
4. DP
5. GTE-Pro
6. GTE-Am
7. GTC
8. GT GA
9. GX
That's WAY to many classes, and I have a feeling classes like the Challenge classes won't be apart of the main group. I can see Challenge Series races with just the LMPC and GTC cars on the track, though. I don't know what they'll do with the GX class that's supposed to start up next year. As for the ALMS and Grand-Am GT classes...well...they COULD do a GT1, GT2 and GT3 thing and keep all the classes...although, the Grand Am cars are closer to GT3 cars, as are the GTE-Pros as GT3 has been becoming the new standard sports car racing. So, what will PROBABLY happen is, if ALMS wants to keep their class...the Grand Am cars might be merged into the ALMS GT rules. Which wouldn't be a bad thing. Some of the teams already have cars in the ALMS GT class, and adding Ford, Camaro and others to the mix wouldn't be too bad. I think 2014 is going to be an exiting season. 2013 should be interesting, too as we'll probably see announcements coming out and maybe a test race or two next year. But...I think it will probably be something like this:
LMP1/LMP2/DP/GT
or
LMP1/DP/GT2/GT3
or most likely:
LMP1/LMP2/DP/GT2/GT3
(Because GT1 sill doesn't exist unless ALMS wants to bring it back. The GT2 cars I believe were brought CLOSER to GT3 rules, but, I think they'd still be considered GT2 and the GA GT class will be GT3. MY real question is how this merger will effect the Continental Tire Challenge Series, if at all. I suspect GX might move to there giving the 2014 season 3 classes....and what about the new B-Spec class in Grand-Am? This should be interesting, for sure.)
1. LMP1
2. LMP2
3. LMPC
4. DP
5. GTE-Pro
6. GTE-Am
7. GTC
8. GT GA
9. GX
That's WAY to many classes, and I have a feeling classes like the Challenge classes won't be apart of the main group. I can see Challenge Series races with just the LMPC and GTC cars on the track, though. I don't know what they'll do with the GX class that's supposed to start up next year. As for the ALMS and Grand-Am GT classes...well...they COULD do a GT1, GT2 and GT3 thing and keep all the classes...although, the Grand Am cars are closer to GT3 cars, as are the GTE-Pros as GT3 has been becoming the new standard sports car racing. So, what will PROBABLY happen is, if ALMS wants to keep their class...the Grand Am cars might be merged into the ALMS GT rules. Which wouldn't be a bad thing. Some of the teams already have cars in the ALMS GT class, and adding Ford, Camaro and others to the mix wouldn't be too bad. I think 2014 is going to be an exiting season. 2013 should be interesting, too as we'll probably see announcements coming out and maybe a test race or two next year. But...I think it will probably be something like this:
LMP1/LMP2/DP/GT
or
LMP1/DP/GT2/GT3
or most likely:
LMP1/LMP2/DP/GT2/GT3
(Because GT1 sill doesn't exist unless ALMS wants to bring it back. The GT2 cars I believe were brought CLOSER to GT3 rules, but, I think they'd still be considered GT2 and the GA GT class will be GT3. MY real question is how this merger will effect the Continental Tire Challenge Series, if at all. I suspect GX might move to there giving the 2014 season 3 classes....and what about the new B-Spec class in Grand-Am? This should be interesting, for sure.)
- 1,051
- London
- JohnsonCapote
I'm very glad to hear the announcement seemed peaceful and all the evidence so far is pointing to common sense dictating how the merged series goes forward. There was a lot of scaremongering from the pro-ALMS, anti-NASCAR lobby who feared that the folks who owned NASCAR were getting involved with ALMS were going to basically turn it into NASCAR with turns - naive and narrow-minded in the extreme. Good to see that so far it looks like that won't be the case - I'm actually really excited to see the results of where we go from here 👍
Of course, that'll all change if they try and introduce the Chase to this new series...
Of course, that'll all change if they try and introduce the Chase to this new series...
