Grand Prix Legends Drivers impressions of the Ring??

[heymoa]

wanted to here the impressions or comparisons of the ring in GT4 from some seasoned GPL simmers? is it as white knuckle as taking the Lotus for a hot lap?

 

[Ravell]

Been a while since I played the Ring in GPL and I've only played the first 6 km of it in the BMW demo with time limit.

However, I was extremely impressed, even with the fairly sluggish BMW 120i/d. The track seems exact to the meter and it's a real immersive feeling... dare I say it... more so than GPL.

I can't wait to try it in the full GT4.

 

[aoe_viruz]

wow, I can't believe you just posted this. I just got GPL 2 days ago and I was about to ask that very same question.

So Please all GPLer's come and tell us if this is a good training tool for the great and up comming GT4?

 

[LaBounti]

Out of box it looks like garbage just like the rest of the game . Aside from the looks the layout is different so theres no real reason to compare. So no, its not a good training tool. with the vehical dynamics being different.

 

[SaintKamus]

Out of box it looks like garbage just like the rest of the game . Aside from the looks the layout is different so theres no real reason to compare. So no, its not a good training tool. with the vehical dynamics being different.

i have to strongy disagree... having never played nurburgring on GPL. and having played tons of GT4 demo nurburgring (i got about 300-500 laps.. not counting, so don't know). i gotta saythe track is very similar... it has some differences that seem to be relevant to the era. and the bumps and look is defenetly better in GT4 (GPL gets all the height stuff right, but no bumps... and crappy graphics, but this is expected for a 1998 game). but i did pretty damn good in my few laps in GLP because i allready knew the track.. it's defenetly good training to learn the track.

 

[nicefrog]

In GPL the track is pretty scary but it's no where near as fearsome as GT4, those bumps are the best thing that's ever been put into a GT game and really that's the only track I've been playing since I got the game. I played one of the BMW races the other day, I was driving a standard M3, also in the race was a couple of the more sporty M3's and the M5. After some serious stress and chasing them down I was in the lead when I lost it a bit a few corners before the long back straight so comming onto the straight I was in second place just sitting behind the M3 CSL? and waiting to go by him on the draft when I saw behind me was the big M5 using up all the extra 200 hp he had and was closing down on both of us very quickly, the M5 went up the inside of me and was along side the other M3 so I swapped drafts and got a tow behind the M5, got just infront of the M3 (by now I was really beyond my normal top speed) then we all ran out of room. I clipped the M3 going around the kink in the straight and it all ended in disaster with me doing about 15 360's and ended up in the grass :!P it was so intense, a friend of mine was watching and he was blown away, he's never owned any GT before, but when the PAL GT4 comes out he's getting it and a wheel : )

 

[cubits]

In GPL you don't get that much of a sense of the track because you're usually in a frantic struggle with the car. Driving the same track in F1C 99-02, with a road car, the comparison is much closer. You actually notice the track, instead of the tree, or the armco.

F1C version of the track is a reloft of the GPL version, with some visual updates. It's less blocky, but its still nowhere as good as the GT4 version. That has so much more surface variation and detail than any other version of the track. It's spot on!

 

[kensei]

The Nordschleife in Gt4 is pretty damn good. Pretty damn close to how the Nordschleife is now circa 2000'ish. If you watch some of the in car from the 24hour races in the past year or two or even gan-san in the best motoring DVDs you'll see PD really nail this track in their modeling. The bumps are the same, etc.

Like SaintKamus I too did over 500-600 laps on the Nordschleife in the GT4 demo and I've done maybe 300 in GT4. The modeling is the same between the two but the cars are different. The Falken GT-R was ALOT more scary in the demo than in the actual game. Downforce levels seem slightly tweaked in the final game, even in arcade mode.

Eitherway there is nothing else on the PS2 or xbox that looks or feels like GT4. not that I am a big gamer (I'm not at all) but I do watch the console driving sims.

You won't be disappointed.

 

[PilotSi]

Having never driven the track in real life (I live in TX ) but I have seen footage, and compared it to GPL (you HAVE to get the GPL updates for it, there just awesome) and I've done a few laps on GT4's version.

I'd say that the elevation changes of the Nurb on GPL is better, but overall I think GT4 makes a better representation of the Nurb.

Also, you can make a good comparison of the physics engine of both games. You get airborne too often in GT4 on the Nurb in stock cars -- but in footages that I've seen, I've never seen any remotely stock car ever take air...only race-bred machines or heavily modded street machines should be taking flight. (like the 1st long straightaway).

Lastily, you gotta remember that both Nurbs aren't exactly the same. GT4s Nurb is definatley shorter.

David

 

[Majarvis]

Also, you can make a good comparison of the physics engine of both games. You get airborne too often in GT4 on the Nurb in stock cars -- but in footages that I've seen, I've never seen any remotely stock car ever take air...only race-bred machines or heavily modded street machines should be taking flight. (like the 1st long straightaway).

David

I have to strongly disagree here. Take any road car, go over 160 km/h (100 mph), and take that car, on soft, stock road car suspension, over a crest (even a slight one) and I will guarantee you will get at least one wheel off the ground. Changing altitude that quickly, going that fast, you will get airborn. It's just simple physics, the car will get light at the crest of that bump, or hill, whatever, and at a relatively high speed that you can attain on the 'Ring, you will certainly get airborn, if only slightly.
As for the videos you have seen, a lot depends on why you may not have seen the cars becoming airborn. The camera angle, for one. If it isn't the same as in GT4, where it is almost at ground level after the crest, then it will not appear as if the car is becoming airborn. Also, if you have seen videos from on-board, then no, you certainly won't see the car becoming airborn, because unless you are jumping a ramp, in-car footage will not show you becoming airborn, because the amount they actually lift off of the ground is only noticeable from outside the car, or actually being in the car (the split-second weightlessness, for example).

Lastily, you gotta remember that both Nurbs aren't exactly the same. GT4s Nurb is definatley shorter.

David

Well, perhaps that is the case, but that is probably due to the fact that, as you said, the layout from the 1960's was slightly different than the layout from 2004. The layout in GT4 (length wise) is, I'm sure, much more accurate as, with anything, technology in this area for games has improved substantially since 1998 (despite Papyrus using GPS) PDs model is more than likely more accurate, simply due to the fact that GPS has improved since 1998, and can give more accurate measurements.

 

[PilotSi]

Well, perhaps that is the case, but that is probably due to the fact that, as you said, the layout from the 1960's was slightly different than the layout from 2004. The layout in GT4 (length wise) is, I'm sure, much more accurate as, with anything, technology in this area for games has improved substantially since 1998 (despite Papyrus using GPS) PDs model is more than likely more accurate, simply due to the fact that GPS has improved since 1998, and can give more accurate measurements.

I didn't know Papyrus used GPS to model those tracks? Wow, sweet.

Anyways, they're both great sims. GPL still owns in physics, but GT4 makes a very nice compromise in fun & physics. I'd like to see the layout of GT4 with a GPL physics engine. That would be pretty cool.

 

[Majarvis]

I didn't know Papyrus used GPS to model those tracks? Wow, sweet.

Anyways, they're both great sims. GPL still owns in physics, but GT4 makes a very nice compromise in fun & physics. I'd like to see the layout of GT4 with a GPL physics engine. That would be pretty cool.

That I'm not certain of, so take my comment with a grain of salt, but I recall reading somewhere a few years back when I was really into GPL, that they used GPS for some tracks, but I'm not 100% certain on that.
What I am sure of, is that PD used GPS for the layout of real-life tracks, they did in GT3 for Laguna Seca and Monaco (Cote d'Azur) at least. I am pretty sure that they also used a device (can't think of the name, but it involves the same premise of GPS to use satellites, much like how they use them to gather data on elevation changes for maps) to accurately re-create elevation changes in the real life tracks. So if it may seem that the elevation changes in GT4 on the 'Ring are not as pronounce as they are in GPL, well, they aren't. Camera angle, and the actual ride-height of the car itself plays an important role in depicting how steep a hill is. Take for example you are on the bus, going up a very steep hill. That hill will not seem as steep on the bus as it would in a sports car, which is much lower to the ground.

 

[Omologato]

I race the 'Ring all the time on PGR2. Thats not a good way to learn the track, though.

 

[CudaMan]

Has anyone else managed to lap the GPL 'Ring in under 8 minutes? I struggled with that one for months! Made it my goal before 'retiring' from GPL. Didn't help that the Lotus was my least favorite car... finally managed to put together a clean fast lap, sweat pouring from my palms, and saw a 7:58. I jumped up and ran around the house like a madman.

GPL was such an intense game. It's still king IMO.

 

[Majarvis]

Has anyone else managed to lap the GPL 'Ring in under 8 minutes? I struggled with that one for months! Made it my goal before 'retiring' from GPL. Didn't help that the Lotus was my least favorite car... finally managed to put together a clean fast lap, sweat pouring from my palms, and saw a 7:58. I jumped up and ran around the house like a madman.

GPL was such an intense game. It's still king IMO.

Yeah, I hear ya, lol. I managed to squeaze out a 7:56 with the Ferrari before I "retired" and I was quite happy to say the least (and a little crazed)

 

[bnommensen]

And then we have to concider tha age of GPL.

With no doubt techniques have reached a totally different stage.
And i would not suggest that GPL developers spent nearly 2 months
measuring out the ring.

So in my opinion it was the first game to bring the virtual ring to us in a stage
one could live with.

And now comes GT4. No comparison allowed i think. This is so accurate. Seen
a few footages of real drivers (including Mr. Menzel), which all were impressed
by the accuracy, even of the bumps. This is another stage of gaming.

And please forget PGR2. This was some long track. Some imagination and you
could recognize the ring. I say Arcade stuff. Nothing like GT4.

 

[Omologato]

And please forget PGR2. This was some long track. Some imagination and you
could recognize the ring. I say Arcade stuff. Nothing like GT4.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. PGR2 was merely an arcade game. The only reason I still have the game is for online play.

 

[FRST]

Some uphills look not steep enough i think in the last part of the ring there was one place where I had to "crouch" in my car to be able to see where I was going all I could see was the road floor or the roof of my car lol that's in reality of course.

 

[heymoa]

thanks for the replies.

am glad that the ring is going to be as big a challange as it is in gpl. i have no gaming pc anymore so i have to make do with a ps2.

i understand that you cant compare tracks, one is based in 1967 and the other is 2004. alot has changed since then. jumps smoothed out and as someone mentioned it is now shorter.

graphically i would be worried if it didnt look better on the ps2 than it does in gpl (even with all the updates!) seeing as it is nearly 7 years old!

 

[cubits]

GPL's version had what is now the F1 Track, tacked onto it. You can see the corner that the f1 track is attached to in the GT4 version (and the pit building on the other side of the barrier).

Sometimes, for 24 hour races and the like, they link the F1 track to the north loop and make a track even longer than the one in GPL.

Oh, and most of the jumps in GPL days were milled down for safety reasons. I'm a little disturbed by the size of the jumps in the GT4 version. Stock cars definintely don't get that much air in modern times. You would certainly notice jumps the size of the ones in GT4 from an incar camera (like the sudden rise/fall in revs, the big clunk, etc). All you normally get is a big droop in the suspension in a road car. You may experience weightlessness, but that doesn't mean you lift off.

 

[heymoa]

your right about the jumps smoothed for safety, if you get a chance to watch the movie in car 956 http://www.dukevideo.com/products/3526.htm. Derek Bell talks about the size of the old jumps. i have watched a few on board laps of some different fast road cars, cant recall many getting much air! of course its a game and you drive faster than you would in real life! does anyone have the videos of the yellow RUF Porsche lapping the ring flat out, would be a good comparison.

 

[Scaff]

Oh, and most of the jumps in GPL days were milled down for safety reasons. I'm a little disturbed by the size of the jumps in the GT4 version. Stock cars definintely don't get that much air in modern times. You would certainly notice jumps the size of the ones in GT4 from an incar camera (like the sudden rise/fall in revs, the big clunk, etc). All you normally get is a big droop in the suspension in a road car. You may experience weightlessness, but that doesn't mean you lift off.

Remember that just because a jump is in place, does not mean that you have to get air. Just back of the throttle before the crest and you will hardly leave the ground (if you fly at all).

The Rally of Finland is a good example of this, the 'yumps' allow drivers to get a hugh amount of air, but only if they take it flat-out. Some do, but others will back off or brake just before the crest, get little or no air.

At the 'ring a lot of the jumps are quickly followed by corners. IRL the last thing you would want to do is get air and lose potential braking space for a corner. We take the jumps in GT4 flat-out, because the risk is very low.

However, as for the current 'ring not allowing that much air, you may want to take a look at the pic below.

 

[cubits]

Caterhams are hardly "most road cars". They're light, fast, stiff, and have little droop.

And i said much air... like this:

 

[SimRaceDriver]

Caterhams are hardly "most road cars". They're light, fast, stiff, and have little droop.

And i said much air... like this:

DAMN! That picture is off the hook! I can't imagine how fast he was going to get more air under those wheels then a skateboard at the X-Games!

 

[Mr Whippy]

I've seen a video from a Porsche GT3 following Sabine in the M5 Ring Taxi at that point in the track, forgotten the name, and there is a jump there, but I wouldn't say it's the best place to go jumping anyway, it's on a bend.

I think GT4 team have, unfortunately, exagerrated a few places, to get a bit of air. I for one, in the GPL converted version in another sim, tried to get airborne in similar cars to the ones in GT4, and it's impossible to get any proper airborne going on.
Best I can get, like Cubits said, is some suspension droop over the peak, and then a big compression as the car comes down!

Weird why they went to all the lengths to make the track THAT accurate, and then make a few jumps a bit too "jumpy"... sensationalist approach to the Ring maybe?!

Hmmm

Dave

 

[DevilGTx]

Why would they exaggerate jumps?
To be "sensationalist"?
How do you know they exaggerated?
It can only be compared to the course in GPL...how do you know that Papy didn't dumb-down their version to avoid the "dangerous air"?

The GPS idea was already discussed, and if PD used GPS it was most likely to reference their position at the track to take PHOTOS.
They wouldn't need to survey the track since I'm sure somebody has already done that. Also, I'm sure a detailed blueprint of the track was available.
So, after taking the 1k's and 1k's of photos and doing a bit of historic video research as well as real-life testing, I would say they aren't exaggerating.

 

[stefmeister]

After F1 cars last races at Nurburgring some of the dips & rises in the road have been flattened a little to try & prevent cars from taking off. I heard Derek Bell talking about it on a video of him going round there in the 1983 Le Mans porsche.

 

[DevilGTx]

Derek Bell...
I've seen that, too.
It was some TV segment about safety, right?
You are probably right about the flattening at least somewhat.
I mean, obviously, tracks need to be repaved at some point, and then there's erosion, blah-blah...

I bet Alain de Cadenet doesn't mind the jumps...or the dirt in his teeth.

PD should have some notable drivers try GT4 and see what they think.
Maybe a virtual shootout on one of those arcade rigs with the DFP and the triple screens. (Anybody catch any of G4TechTV's coverage of the LA Auto Show?)
I bet I could beat 'em all.

HOLY F'N S***!
3 Apache's just flew over my house @ about 500 ft!
My cats are freakin' out!

 

[rpmformula]

GPL's track is the 1967 one...

This track has been changed in 1970-71, after F1 drivers refused to race in 1970. The track on itself didn't change, but it was widened, some jumps has been reduced, and a lot of trees has been cutted down, in order to put armcos around it.

Phil Hill said the track was emasculated (does this word exist ?)...I guess that' s a bit extrem point of view

I ve been passenger @ the Ring, and GT4 looks very impressive, in term of modelising.

 

[DevilGTx]

There you go...
An eye-witness testimony.
emasculated -- tamed, they took the "man" out of it.
Before the renovations, the course was actual roads.
They made a safe venue out of it.