Malaysia Grand Prix 2009

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm thinking the same direction Sato went after Super Aguri went out: Nowhere.

My point was that:

a) As has been coved elsewhere, it is highly unlikely that Fernando Alonso will drive for Ferrari any time ... ever;
b) Ferrari have no reason to seek out new drivers, much less unrated rookies when they are happy with their current combination; and,
c) None of this has to do with a supposed move by Hamilton from McLaren to another team, a move that has already been described as not happening.

It's a lot like when the person who posted his theory of Senna-and-Alonso-to-Ferrari stated that Ferrari would not run KERS in Sepang because it had led to Massa and Raikkonen retiring in Melbourne.

 

[Dazzla]

It's MUCH more likely that Alonso will goto Ferrari then Hamilton...

 

[niky]

But that beggars the question: Does Ferrari actually need anyone else? They already have two drivers who have proven that they can drive, and who are both hungry for a title... one having almost won a couple before claiming it in 2007, and another who came within a gnat's whisker of winning last year... and who is undoubtedly less arrogant than either Alonso or Hamilton (yes, I am admitting this).

 

[mPWRD]

Does Ferrari have a penchant for hiring drivers who are sweet-tempered and nice? I think not. But you have a point. Do they need anyone else?

 

[peterjford]

But that beggars the question: Does Ferrari actually need anyone else? They already have two drivers who have proven that they can drive, and who are both hungry for a title... one having almost won a couple before claiming it in 2007, and another who came within a gnat's whisker of winning last year... and who is undoubtedly less arrogant than either Alonso or Hamilton (yes, I am admitting this).

I think what started all of this was the fact that Kimi doesn't look that hungry for a title (ice cream and coke will do just fine). Seriously, I am a Kimi fan, but I don't know if he is really putting in the effort. Doesn't help when the team or car lets him down, but I don't see the same Kimi from 2-3 years ago. I hope I am mistaken but we may not know until the team and the car gets sorted out.

 

[ANFD]

Ferrari has history of getting the best talent. I believe that the best long term investment for a team like Ferrari would be Vettel. Proven skills at a very early age and will only get better. Ferrari has had quite good luck with a previous German who drove for them As for existing contracts, it's like Bob Dylan once said .... "money doesn't talk, it screams". All drivers want to go to a team they believe can win and Ferrari will have to reprove that before they can attract real talent.

I've read some pretty astute perspectives here .... fascinating reading

 

[Tired Tyres]

Why would anyone want to go to Ferrari?

Unless Ferrari drop development of their current car and start on next years car now, like Honda did last year, then why would anyone want to join what is a midfield team?

It's no good saying they have the resources to make their car good. They can't test and have limited wind tunnel time just like everybody else.

Right now, Brawn, Williams, Toyota, Red Bull and BMW all have a faster car than Ferrari. The Renault may also be faster if Renault stopped running Alonso on heavy fuel for long enough to give him a chance to compete on lap times.

The only teams that are currently worse than Ferrari are McLaren, Force India and STR and STR have the potential to be quicker than Ferrari because of their chassis.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Why are we even dscussing who Ferrari might sign on? This whole conversation has come about because someone posted that Hamilton would leave McLaren, which would make way for Alonso at Ferrari, a logic that still baffles me to the point where it makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

 

[niky]

Because driver shopping is interesting?

Whatever anyone may say about Raikonnen's commitment, he seems to have shaped up in the off-season for this one, so I don't see Ferrari trading him off, yet... not as long as Massa is still strong.

But Vettel is an interesting prospect in the next few years...

 

[Ardius]

Why are we even dscussing who Ferrari might sign on? This whole conversation has come about because someone posted that Hamilton would leave McLaren, which would make way for Alonso at Ferrari, a logic that still baffles me to the point where it makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

No it hasn't, we started this conversation because we were discussing whether Ferrari could turn it around and why they were doing badly in recent races.

I mentioned Kimi and Felipe have their weaknesses and we went off about when Kimi would leave or be kicked out and who would replace him.

I don't know where you've got the idea about Hamilton leaving McLaren means Alonso can move to Ferrari, thats loopy.

 

[zed300]

Ferrari have started well below par, sure, but I don't think it's worth changing anything major, including drivers. That would be absurd.McLaren likewise.
You don't become a powerhouse team, making radical changes everytime something goes awry.
As for Kimi's attitude, how can you tell? He's no different when he's winning races to stepping out of the car mid race and grabbing a coke and ice cream.

 

[Metar]

Seriously, I think you guys have been a little too harsh. It's been two rounds into the season: One of them a chaotic rain-swept almost-night race that made the whole race a messy lottery, and the other a season-opener.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Exactly, they could easily be up there again in the next race, they had bad luck, that's it. Massa and Raikkonen are some of the best drivers, of not the best, no need to change them. As zed300 pointed out, a radical change in the team doesn't necessarily help either, look at Toyota from 2002 to 2003 and onwards. They kept firing and hiring people in order to gain some solid results, but now they finally have a solid driver line-up and solid team base and look how the results started coming last year.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I think the guy who put Kimi on wet tires should be fired or disciplined like the guy at McLaren.

 

[Metar]

Yeah? When Schumacher himself said he would've switched to the wets too, with the info they had at the time?

Jebus, guys. I really wouldn't want to work under you if you think that's how fast people should get fired.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Jebus, guys. I really wouldn't want to work under you if you think that's how fast people should get fired.

Metar: Thanks for the job Mr. Dogg
Road_Dogg: You're fired!

 

[Ardius]

I think some people are over-reacting a little here, what started off as a discussion about what Ferrari did wrong in recent races has gone a little sideways.
I was criticsing Kimi based on his performances in the past 2 years...his recent performances. No where did I say he should be fired because of 2 races but I was questioning how long he is going to stay in F1 after this year if he keeps up like this, with most races usually seeing him qualify midfield and getting stuck by cars that really shouldn't be troubling him. This hasn't happened so much this year, more last year, but still, 2 retirements one which was from his own driving is not a good way to start the year.

 

[Nicksfix]

At least Ferrari is acknowledging the fact that they know they have issues this year :

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/300168/Di_Montezemolo_Ferrari_will_react/

www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9155.html

 

[Antti-san]

Well, it's going to be a long season, so I wouldn't panic just yet. I believe Ferrari, along with McLaren, are going to improve substantially as the season progresses.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Yeah? When Schumacher himself said he would've switched to the wets too, with the info they had at the time?

What does Schumacher know...that old geezer. I think it was a bit of a gamble and yet also very cautious at the same time. It just doesn't make sense seeing that Kimi was out there in the dry for a couple of lap. I guess there's the thing...I don't know what information they had at the time.

 

[Metar]

What does Schumacher know...that old geezer. I think it was a bit of a gamble and yet also very cautious at the same time. It just doesn't make sense seeing that Kimi was out there in the dry for a couple of lap. I guess there's the thing...I don't know what information they had at the time.

RTL quizzed him on it as soon as the race was red-flagged and the pitlane opened for reporters. He said that their info at the time indicated that rain was just outside the track and should start raining any moment - and that he still thinks it was the right choice with the info they had. He also added: "Before we had weather-data, we used to make mistakes. Now, we have the data, but we still make mistakes - nothing really changed."

 

[Ardius]

RTL quizzed him on it as soon as the race was red-flagged and the pitlane opened for reporters. He said that their info at the time indicated that rain was just outside the track and should start raining any moment - and that he still thinks it was the right choice with the info they had. He also added: "Before we had weather-data, we used to make mistakes. Now, we have the data, but we still make mistakes - nothing really changed."

Michael might be a great driver, but that doesn't instantly mean he is a great strategist from the pit wall. I mean, the key thing here was Bridgestone had told Brundle that the operating time of the slicks was something like 10s in the wet overlap until the full wets (or the intermediates, I can't remember which). Which meant even if it did start raining, the slicks would be still fast for a few laps depending on how hard it rained.

This is why it came across as a bit desperate to throw full wets on assuming the rain was coming the next lap - even if it did, the full wet tyres wouldn't be any faster for a few laps longer, so why take the risk? It depended on the rain being pretty hard very quickly, and that kind of risk-taking is not what Ferrari should be doing in what is a decent car.

 

[thirteendog]

Michael might be a great driver, but that doesn't instantly mean he is a great strategist from the pit wall. I mean, the key thing here was Bridgestone had told Brundle that the operating time of the slicks was something like 10s in the wet overlap until the full wets (or the intermediates, I can't remember which). Which meant even if it did start raining, the slicks would be still fast for a few laps depending on how hard it rained.

This is why it came across as a bit desperate to throw full wets on assuming the rain was coming the next lap - even if it did, the full wet tyres wouldn't be any faster for a few laps longer, so why take the risk? It depended on the rain being pretty hard very quickly, and that kind of risk-taking is not what Ferrari should be doing in what is a decent car.

But we also have to remember where they are. In Malaysia it doesn't just rain, it pours.

I do agree that doing that to kimi was a bad idea though, if they were going to do it to someone they should have done it to massa. He would've had the most to gain and the least to lose by a move like that.

 

[Ardius]

True, but its been said time and time again about wet races - you're better off sticking the right tyres on the moment it happens rather than trying to predict several laps ahead of you. Even if you fall behind from pit stops or perhaps going slower on dry tyres/wet tyres between the weather transition, you're still better off than attempting to risk a strategy on weather that may not come for a couple of laps.

 

[Peter]

I wouldn't call Bruno much of a rookie, he has the senna in his blood, he did really good in the gp2 champ which are only a little slower than f1 and hardly different. And ferrari is going to need a rookie when raikonnen leaves at the end of the year and Bruno is up for grabs.

 

[Ardius]

I wouldn't call Bruno much of a rookie, he has the senna in his blood, he did really good in the gp2 champ which are only a little slower than f1 and hardly different. And ferrari is going to need a rookie when raikonnen leaves at the end of the year and Bruno is up for grabs.

1 (very up and down) season of GP2 does not an experienced driver make. He did OK in GP2....not amazing and he made plenty of rookie mistakes. He isn't hot stuff and his name doesn't make him go faster.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

1 (very up and down) season of GP2 does not an experienced driver make. He did OK in GP2....not amazing and he made plenty of rookie mistakes. He isn't hot stuff and his name doesn't make him go faster.

Aye, Piquet is proving that a famous name and famous blood counts for nothing in Formula One. Nakajima too, though Frank Williams seems to think highly of him and he just needs to convert prace pace into race results and he could be the first truly successful Japanese driver in the sport. Nico Rosberg is the only relative of a Forumla One driver to proving he's got the mustard.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

Aye, Piquet is proving that a famous name and famous blood counts for nothing in Formula One. Nakajima too, though Frank Williams seems to think highly of him and he just needs to convert prace pace into race results and he could be the first truly successful Japanese driver in the sport. Nico Rosberg is the only relative of a Forumla One driver to proving he's got the mustard.

i got faith in nakajima actually. before he went off in melbourne he was actully showing good pace and moving up...then he hit the curb to hard and went flying into the wall. i think with the competitive car this year i think we will see more out of him this year then in years past.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

But we also have to remember where they are. In Malaysia it doesn't just rain, it pours.

I do agree that doing that to kimi was a bad idea though, if they were going to do it to someone they should have done it to massa. He would've had the most to gain and the least to lose by a move like that.

They couldn't do it to Massa since he was fueled heavy and it would be better to just wait until the rain came. I'm not sure but I think Kimi pitted due to fuel or was at least close to his scheduled stop and they decided to toss the rains on. Or was the stop for tires his second stop?

Aye, Piquet is proving that a famous name and famous blood counts for nothing in Formula One.

The gridwalk for Speed was awesome. Peter Windsor asked Piquet Sr. how his son did for this race and Piquet said "not good". Then he said that Piquet Jr isn't catching on as fast as he would've liked. Basically he had nothing good to say, except that Piquet Jr. has to work harder.

 

[mPWRD]

Aye, Piquet is proving that a famous name and famous blood counts for nothing in Formula One. Nakajima too, though Frank Williams seems to think highly of him and he just needs to convert prace pace into race results and he could be the first truly successful Japanese driver in the sport. Nico Rosberg is the only relative of a Forumla One driver to proving he's got the mustard.

Yep. In case you forgot, Piquet got second to Lewis in GP2 2006, and Bruno got second in 2008. But the champs... Rosberg, Hamilton, and Glock to name a few... they've got a future. Famous blood counts for almost nothing, as does GP2 results...

Although you could make a case for blood... Andrettis, anyone? Or how about the Hills? Both world champs. Villenueve? Outside of F1, there's Rahal, Foyt, Unser, Earnhardt, etc. So blood may have something to do with it. But maybe not.