NFL 2015 Season

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Danoff
Did you watch much of the Broncos that year? I saw every game - that was not the best NFL offense in history. Teams evolve throughout the season in a major way, the number of points you score on opening weekend is not that indicative of how good your offense is at the end of the season. It's an over-reliance on stats to lump season totals into a discussion about a single game - such as the superbowl. There are quite a few reasons that total points is not the best indicator of "best offense". It's in same ways more of an indicator of "poor defense".
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Did I watch them by choice, no.

Find me a measure that shows the 2015 Broncos are the greatest defense ever. If like you say points is not the best indicator than you just blew up your and Peter King's argument that they beat the 1,3,4 ranked offenses.

76 Steelers
85 Bears
00 Ravens
02 Bucs.
13 Seahawks
08 Steelers
etc,etc,etc

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14723383/denver-broncos-defense-2015-best-ever-nfl
 
IforceV8
Did I watch them by choice, no.

Find me a measure that shows the 2015 Broncos are the greatest defense ever. If like you say points is not the best indicator than you just blew up your and Peter King's argument that they beat the 1,3,4 ranked offenses.

76 Steelers
85 Bears
00 Ravens
02 Bucs.
13 Seahawks
08 Steelers
etc,etc,etc

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14723383/denver-broncos-defense-2015-best-ever-nfl
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Are you seriously now simultaneously ignoring and citing my discussion context for stats? Yea, the article you mention puts Seahawks #1 and Broncos #2 in terms of best all time (assuming 10 years is sufficient for sports science to render the top from one decade automatically ahead of the top from the previous decade). That's not a terrible position - that the Seahawks are better. But I don't think it's supported given that the Seahawks defense really only exposed one team in the playoffs that year - the Broncos - which happened to be a team delicately predicated on finesse. You'd expect that to be a poor match for the style of defense the Seahawks were playing.

Contrast that with the Broncos this year overcoming multiple styles. Improvisation (Steelers), Finesse (Patriots), Smashmouth with a mobile QB (Carolina). The fact that they dominated the offenses of each of those very different styles I think puts them ahead of the very good Seahawks 2013 defense. Anything older than 10 years back I consider a "for their time" argument.
 
I do not like the Broncos even in the slightest. But they did have one of the better defenses I've ever seen. Without a shadow of a doubt. Is there an argument for being the best? Much to my chagrin, yes. Although, my Raiders still best them at home. :sly:
 
"But I don't think it's supported given that the Seahawks defense really only exposed one team in the playoffs that year"
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No, no, no and here's why....

As much as I hate to give credit to the 49'ers, they were good that year, really good, so your argument is shot down. The 49'ers were coming off a Super Bowl loss to the Ravens the previous year, a good team that fell a little short and they were one Richard Sherman 'nope, denied' play away from making it to back-to-back super bowls; People forget that. That defense exposed the receiving core and Kaepernick, then moved on to win the SB holding the Broncos, one of the most high-powered offenses of all time to just 8 points.
 
DDastardly00
No, no, no and here's why....

As much as I hate to give credit to the 49'ers, they were good that year, really good, so your argument is shot down. The 49'ers were coming off a Super Bowl loss to the Ravens the previous year, a good team that fell a little short and they were one Richard Sherman 'nope, denied' play away from making it to back-to-back super bowls; People forget that. That defense exposed the receiving core and Kaepernick, then moved on to win the SB holding the Broncos, one of the most high-powered offenses of all time to just 8 points.
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Trust me, I remember that the 9ers were two crabtree catches in the corner of the end zone away from winning the superbowl twice in a row. They were an amazing team that will be forgotten. Arguably better than the Seattle 2013 team because the refs helped Seattle a bit in that game. What the Broncos did would be the equivalent of the Seahawks manhandling the 9ers as well on defense and beating them despite an offense that was basically running clock three plays at a time for a good portion of the game.
 
Danoff
Are you seriously now simultaneously ignoring and citing my discussion context for stats? Yea, the article you mention puts Seahawks #1 and Broncos #2 in terms of best all time (assuming 10 years is sufficient for sports science to render the top from one decade automatically ahead of the top from the previous decade). That's not a terrible position - that the Seahawks are better. But I don't think it's supported given that the Seahawks defense really only exposed one team in the playoffs that year - the Broncos - which happened to be a team delicately predicated on finesse. You'd expect that to be a poor match for the style of defense the Seahawks were playing.

Contrast that with the Broncos this year overcoming multiple styles. Improvisation (Steelers), Finesse (Patriots), Smashmouth with a mobile QB (Carolina). The fact that they dominated the offenses of each of those very different styles I think puts them ahead of the very good Seahawks 2013 defense. Anything older than 10 years back I consider a "for their time" argument.
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Well which is, they are the greatest defense in history or the 2nd greatest in the last 10 yrs?

Keeping digging for some actual "facts" to base you opinion on like I have or say "they were very good on Sunday" and leave it at that because this idea being shoveled around today by you, Omnis, and and some of the NFL media is a steaming pile of crap. The list posted by John Clayton while handy for reference has some notable omissions. The 2008 Steelers XLIII champs for example were better than the 15 Broncos in pts allowed, overall yds,pass yds,rush yds allowed, 3rd down %, and had only 1 less sack than Denver had and didnt even make that list with it's click bait headline.

2015 Broncos- a very good defense that had a good day, and scored it's defensive TD on what should have been a roughing the passer 15yd personal foul penalty, Miller's right hand hit Newton in the facemask when he stripped the ball.
 
s
Danoff
Trust me, I remember that the 9ers were two crabtree catches in the corner of the end zone away from winning the superbowl twice in a row. They were an amazing team that will be forgotten. Arguably better than the Seattle 2013 team because the refs helped Seattle a bit in that game. What the Broncos did would be the equivalent of the Seahawks manhandling the 9ers as well on defense and beating them despite an offense that was basically running clock three plays at a time for a good portion of the game.
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I'm sure you meant winning the NFC championships game not the super bowl. The late hit on Wilson in that game wasn't that controversial, I thought it was a good call despite what Blandino said later after the game. It looked like roughing the passer to me.
 
IforceV8
Well which is, they are the greatest defense in history or the 2nd greatest in the last 10 yrs?
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I already addressed that point. You're developing quite the habit of ignoring portions of my posts in favor of a flippant response.

IforceV8
Keeping digging for some actual "facts" to base you opinion on like I have or say "they were very good on Sunday" and leave it at that because this idea being shoveled around today by you, Omnis, and and some of the NFL media is a steaming pile of crap. The list posted by John Clayton while handy for reference has some notable omissions.
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They had an unbelievable playoffs run against one of the most difficult playoff schedules I can remember. Manning now holds the record for worst superbowl stats by a superbowl winning QB.

IforceV8
The 2008 Steelers XLIII champs for example were better than the 15 Broncos in pts allowed, overall yds,pass yds,rush yds allowed, 3rd down %, and had only 1 less sack than Denver had and didnt even make that list with it's click bait headline.
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...are you ignoring my comments about the season-total stats?

IforceV8
2015 Broncos- a very good defense that had a good day, and scored it's defensive TD on what should have been a roughing the passer 15yd personal foul penalty, Miller's right hand hit Newton in the facemask when he stripped the ball.
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Uh huh... supposing that were true it would definitely change everything about the Broncos' playoffs run this year.

DDastardly00
s

I'm sure you meant winning the NFC championships game not the super bowl. The late hit on Wilson in that game wasn't that controversial, I thought it was a good call despite what Blandino said later after the game. It looked like roughing the passer to me.
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Nope. I mean the superbowl. The Broncos of 2013 were pretenders. They faced a pretty poor NE team in the AFC championship game and were generally beneficiaries of a weak strength of schedule for the entire season. The 9ers would have steamrolled them just as easily as did the 'hawks.
 
Danoff
Nope. I mean the superbowl. The Broncos of 2013 were pretenders. They faced a pretty poor NE team in the AFC championship game and were generally beneficiaries of a weak strength of schedule for the entire season. The 9ers would have steamrolled them just as easily as did the 'hawks.
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My bad, thought you were still talking about the 49ers, who lost SB 47.
 
IforceV8
2 yrs ago Seattle beat the best offense in NFL history to win a Superbowl
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I followed Manning from Indy to Denver. That was easily my favorite seasons of football since Flutie was on the Bills, and the practical college game that Romo and Manning played was perhaps my favorite game on the NFL level. But that game shouldn't have even been close if the 2013 Broncos were as good as they were supposed to be. 2 years ago Seattle wiped the floor with a team that was very good at beating the absolute hell out of the mediocre teams that made up the majority of Denver's 2013 season, and good enough to usually win the ineviteable shootouts they had to get into when the other team actually showed up to play even if they weren't really any good (2013 Cowboys).



Carolina was, up until last night, easily a more dynamic offense than "Manning to Welker/Thomas, TOUCHDOWN!" was; nevermind their defense.
 
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Tornado
I followed Manning from Indy to Denver. That was easily my favorite seasons of football since Flutie was on the Bills, and the practical college game that Romo and Manning played was perhaps my favorite game on the NFL level. But that game shouldn't have even been close if the 2013 Broncos were as good as they were supposed to be. 2 years ago Seattle wiped the floor with a team that was very good at beating the absolute hell out of the mediocre teams that made up the majority of Denver's 2013 season, and good enough to usually win the ineviteable shootouts they had to get into when the other team actually showed up to play even if they weren't really any good (2013 Cowboys).



Carolina was, up until last night, easily a more dynamic offense than "Manning to Welker/Thomas, TOUCHDOWN!" was; nevermind their defense.
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I dont disagree with that idea that in 2013 the stats were inflated but they are what they are. The point I have is that while claims of the "greatest ever" have been applied to what we saw last night there are also many other things that could be included in the endless "what if" game that can overrule that claim as just plain lucky. The catch that wasnt a catch, the sack/fumble/td that included a non call for roughing the passer that would have taken that score away. The off-sides by Talib on the missed FG,etc etc.

Or just look at the numbers and say the #4 scoring D beat the #1 scoring O, and by comparison to other Super Bowl champions and what they did at the time this years champions were very good, and far from all time greatest.
 
I don't have any dog in whether this Broncos defense is one of the best ever, they definitely had a great one. Here's an article I found that says they barely crack the top ten ever, but are one of the best to win a super bowl. It has a bunch of raw stats. I just found it interesting. Sorry if any of the stats are a bit fuzzy:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/pro...one-of-the-greatest-nfl-defenses-of-all-time/
 
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"If you show me a good loser, I'll show you a loser." So says one Mr. Cam Newton in response to him losing Super Bowl 50. Cam said very few words and even walked out on an interview. ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption" had Michael Wilbon feel incredibly disappointed in Newton's behavior and how he handed losing Super Bowl 50. Various other sports reporters and such had their own say. Many of them, along the lines of being disappointed with Cam Newton.

So GTPlanet, tell it- your thoughts on Cam Newton and how he handled losing Super Bowl 50 and dealing with the media? What say you on Cam Newton?
 
JohnBM01
"If you show me a good loser, I'll show you a loser." So says one Mr. Cam Newton in response to him losing Super Bowl 50. Cam said very few words and even walked out on an interview. ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption" had Michael Wilbon feel incredibly disappointed in Newton's behavior and how he handed losing Super Bowl 50. Various other sports reporters and such had their own say. Many of them, along the lines of being disappointed with Cam Newton.

So GTPlanet, tell it- your thoughts on Cam Newton and how he handled losing Super Bowl 50 and dealing with the media? What say you on Cam Newton?
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Well, he lost. He's not going to suddenly not be a "loser" by acting badly about it. My take on it is that he's emotionally immature, which is fine because he's young.
 
Congratulations to Marshawn Lynch, who has retired after a sparkling career at Seattle.

I heard the bad news about Ken Stabler. I hope the NFL and its players figure a way to preserve their health going forward.
 
Jahgee

Cam really is the James Harden of the NFL
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This year I actually gained a lot of respect for Cam. I never did like him in college, and he was immature and a major pouter in his early NFL career.

I lost some of that again during the Super Bowl. Sure it's fine when everything is going good and he's playing superman and celebrating all the time, but he folded when the pressure was on.
He showed his immaturity again in the way he handled the loss.

I read some of the Broncos defensive guys saying that they could see him pouting early in the game and tell by his body language he was flustered. How about that Wade Phillips tweet? Lol
 
prousonhairy
This year I actually gained a lot of respect for Cam. I never did like him in college, and he was immature and a major pouter in his early NFL career.

I lost some of that again during the Super Bowl. Sure it's fine when everything is going good and he's playing superman and celebrating all the time, but he folded when the pressure was on.
He showed his immaturity again in the way he handled the loss.

I read some of the Broncos defensive guys saying that they could see him pouting early in the game and tell by his body language he was flustered. How about that Wade Phillips tweet? Lol
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I loved Cam at Auburn, had no problem with him until this came out. You can't say that when you have a teammate who's playing with a broken arm.
 
IforceV8
76 Steelers
85 Bears
00 Ravens
02 Bucs.
13 Seahawks
08 Steelers
etc,etc,etc

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14723383/denver-broncos-defense-2015-best-ever-nfl
Click to expand...

Any team from the 70s would get rocked in today's game. Even the undefeated Dolphins. Sports are progressive.

1eO04UJ.gif


It was only thanks to Shula and the other genius coaches developing actual playbooks and systems in the 70s that the NFL really took off as a team game. Ten years later, you had such a huge difference in the quality of play. (In other words, the 85 bears are legit.)
 
Big moves from the Philadelphia today. Adam Schefter is reporting that they are finalizing deals to send Kiko Alonso and Byron Maxwell to Miami. While Demarco Murray is in the process of being traded to Tennessee.
 
AnthonyD1993
Peyton Manning retired today as well. Say farewell to a man who will go down as one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.
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Weather or not he's the greatest of all time depends how you measure QBs. In my book, he's the GOAT.
 

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