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Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by DJBLITZKRIEG, May 14, 2015.
"Previously, we revealed that the bug situation was quite serious and that some gamers were already asking for refunds. And due to the shortage of stocks in some stores, the developers were considering actually allowing the players to refund their game."
343 studios actually did something similar with The Master Chief Collection because it had / has so many problems. Bottom line, developers need to quit releasing unfinished games.
Bad article is bad
I don't think thats possible anymore, they are far to complicated. Pcars couldn't be delayed any longer and is in far better shape than Halo was
Wow, im glad i have a ps4,none of these bugs on it,feel bad for xbox one users.
Says the driver can no longer be switched during multiplayer races? Does that mean no online driver swaps for endurance races? Also no news about Logitech support
No news yet regarding the bugged PS4 Fanatec wheel situation.
I guess there are far more XBO issues than PS4. I'm on PS4, and I feel like the top priority is the Fanatec situation. Yes, I'm selfish.
All in all, Drive club was SO bad that to me it completely overshadows what's happened here. I'm sure we'll get things sorted out eventually. Hell, I guess I'm just happy they even are supporting Fanatec gear, since there isn't any other current option on PS4.
It's not selfish at all, a bid deal was made by SMS about Fanatec compatability, so much so that it was featured on the project cars website. I would be as dissapointed as you are if my T300 wouldn't work with the only racing sim available for PS4.
I've been reading a lot about the reported Fanatec issues, but it appears to me the main issues are with the lower end Fanatec wheels. Basically, anything other than a CSW v1 or V2. Unless, I'm completely wrong the CSW v1 and V2 are working well with PCars on the PS4.
But the GT3 and clubsport isn't exactly low end!
I really wish we wouldn't take this apologist stance where we let people release insanely buggy titles. If I was given a software project to do, I'd be told to do it right or face the consequences. game developers should be facing the same fate at the end of the day. It is possible to release games without bugs, just wish we wouldn't have people saying that isn't possible anymore because the majority of devs are choosing to over-shoot and miss their targets, quality standards and most importantly, make people regret their purchases.
That's plausible, but the GT3RS v2 is not lower end. Sure, it's not as high end as the others, but it's not low end. Especially when I'm pairing it with $200 Clubsport pedals. I know I'm nitpicking your words a bit, but I really hope there isn't any truth to that statement. There is a HUGE part of the Fanatec community with my wheel, The V1 and even the 911 Turbo wheel that should have no problem working with this game. Imo, when you invest with Fanatec, you aren't making a decision for a low end wheel. You're in the niche of gamers who take racing sims more seriously than most, and they should have made a better effort to support the wheels that are frequently used within the community.
Off my soap box now..
The thread title here is very misleading. There is no way that should be referred to as tons of information. It is a little information on a few bug fixes that are included in the patch. Most of which was already posted in another thread related to patches. The only thing I really saw there related to the patch that wasn't in the other thread was that they had to wait for it to be approved before it could roll out to the Console(s)
Lower end wheels? Does Fanatec even make a low end wheel? I know they rant about their CSW but the CSR Elite is almost the same thing and while those are a bit higher end than the GT3 GT2 TurboS and CSR wheels they are all high end wheels and all should work.
Personally I doubt that I will buy any more Fanatec products. The price is just plain crazy now and the fact that they have not found a way to get the CSR and/or CSR Elite Forza wheels to work with the XB1 is out of the question. I paid a lot of money for my CSR Elite wheel and then less than 1year later they switch to the CSW and now tell me I have to buy a CSW Base and Wheel to get XB1 support to the tune of almost $1000 and not even an offer to trade in a $500 wheel that I already have. They make a pretty good product but it is not worth $1000 and for all we know a couple of years from now we may have to buy another one and that one may double the price again.
You say that like it's easy to do, programming is one heck of a skill that you must have a high tolerance for repetition. Gaming budgets are gargantuan and can cost developers their jobs, delays cost money you probably won't ever get back in sales over the entire life of the release. They push as hard as they can for their original window and if there are bugs that can absolutely not be allowed in the final game they have no choice but to take the loss and hold it back but there comes a point where they must release or cancel. Both cost money but only one really puts the developer in a terrible situation, canceling after spending loads of money and time coding a game. There aren't so many bugs that cripple Project Cars but games these days are massive in scope of programming, and unlike humans computers do no interpret what you meant since PC's are logic driven. So you put in a line that should yield correct results yet it somehow doesn't, now you have to parse through lines of code to find the point where the logic is coming up with a problem, now that may seem like all but then you have to remember all the other bits of logic that runs through that. Make the incorrect change and you can break something else seemingly unrelated.
Bungie had an issue in Destiny about disappearing heavy ammo, took them months to solve it as every time they thought they got it, the fix would break something else. This isn't the 80's and 90's coding is way beyond what it used to be, and thing is not everything can be found by gold stamping day. We as gamers and consumers tend to forget that someone spent a good deal of money and time getting a BS/BS to do programming and they still can't built a flawless program. Just like no one can humanly do any job they have to perfection, humans are preset to fail, mess up and crack. It's not being apologetic about anything, you think SMS wanted to release the game with those issues? You think they had a choice given the alternative? The amount of money that went into the game and the amount that could be lost by delaying it further, would you be able to sit there and say you'd be up to the decision if you were in charge at SMS?
Let's try to remember that SMS is made of people just like you and I, they get tired, they miss things but most of all over time they get better at what they do and can fix things that are fixable. They aren't a big company like UbiSoft releasing a bunch of bug infested games considering how massive that outfit is, these guys are a small independent developer who literally made an AA level game, without the AA budget for extra fluff here and there and it's not a bare bones games like some PC simulators either.
I don't like bugs in my games but as long as these guys did their best and are there to back up their product with fixes when they are warranted. Now lets all calm down and relax, nothing is perfect and such a small team pulling this off is nothing short of phenomenal, I have been playing every day since I got the digital download Tuesday evening, the options alone is bigger than most driving games I have played. The driving dynamics alone are worth the investment, no two cars really handle alike and the control for each needs to be worked with by you since it's not one size fits all, this means there is some serious authenticity built in for controls. The speed of steering listed by the game may fit one car and would be the complete opposite for another, this in a console game and running so well and not of meager scope? I'll happily play this game, my first full priced purchase on PS4 to day. Mind you as much as I wanted to get this game, I was still on the fence with all the delays up until the day before I purchased it. I was like I hope this isn't a mistake, lo and behold it wasn't anyone who loved to play GT or Forza but wanted more than just racing pointlessly can pick this up. It even uses real rules sure not all are implemented perfectly as rules in real life require human judgement something a game does not have.
Things happen, in light of all that has transpired I would say this launch was a success. Sure it's marred by some problems here or there but I am thoroughly enjoying the game. Let's give SMS the benefit of the doubt when it comes to fixes and post launch support. They are not funded by anyone but themselves and whatever profits they can even make off this release and that probably won't happen for many months if at all.
I absolutely agree that quality is important. However, expecting a completely bug free game on this scale, budget and development schedule is simply not realistic.
If games were to be developed using the same methods as, say, a nuclear power plant or airplane control system, they would cost several tens, or more probably hundreds, times as much money to make and take a lot longer.
In addition to the purely technical side of things, gamers demand steadily more advanced games, and they want them NOW. Long development schedules and delays are not tolerated. As a developer you can't win this, you have to do your best, then release at 'good' point and commit to maintaining your software (which SMS do, BTW).
I absolutely love pCARS and can understand why something like this may be a bit buggy. That being said, the Xbox One title seems to be in-operable practically for plenty of people and thats just not good enough...SMS know the scale of their own product and thus consumers trust them to deliver day one, on release.
Pretty much what I was going to post. The complexity of games has increased and timelines have gotten tighter
Can't speak to the XO experience, but on PS4 I have come away pleasantly surprised. Many of the issues remind me of what Codemasters went through with F1 2010. Difference is, Codemasters is an established developer with an actual budget. SMS is a small team that had plenty of help with crowdfunding, attempting the most ambitious racing game ever. So I'm just glad it works for the most part, especially the online component which thwarted Driveclub – a game with 20x the budget and all of Sony's technical expertise behind it.
They know about them and are working on them - yes it sucks badly - There is a full thread of known issues
it has a link to the Fanatec wheel issues thread - the issue is once they get it "fixed" they have to submit the patch to the publisher to test, then to sony to test and certify which will take more time than it should (which really sucks)
The bugs on T300 are minor compared to the Fanatec GT / CSR issues so I hope they get you guys set up first.
@Classic @DrJustice -- I think the uncomfortable truth is that SMS literally couldn't afford any more delays and needed the money from early adopters to work on the fixes they're doing now. Lots of people asked about becoming backers after you couldn't join WMD anymore. Well, here's your early access, in a sense.
Everyone overlooks Nintendo when talking about games being broken by default for the past several years, but the thing about that is, a company like Nintendo can afford their "keep at it until it's finished" mentality because they have vaults of cash and high visibility for anything they publish, even if it has been pushed back a year or two. I'm willing to cast some blame on other major publishers, but I think it's fair to cut SMS some slack considering how they broke off from EA and went into developing PCARS without much of a safety net.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean by: "As a developer you can't win this, you have to do your best, then release at 'good' point and commit to maintaining your software (which SMS do, BTW)."
I.e. in todays climate of demands, expectations and hype, you have to release at some point, even if that point isn't ideal. This is made even more difficult now that we have Early Access to compete with; see below.
No, WMD is anything but Early Access. One of the key things being that you don't sell your game to "end users" before it's ready for release. Hence not accepting an indefinite amount of members, just enough to fulfill the games development budget. I wrote something about WMD vs EA previously. I'm lazy right now, so I'll just copy it across here:
"Personally I'm not a big fan of that concept [early access]; it means the publisher/devs never have to commit to or fulfil anything. The community interaction isn't very organized, and the community members doesn't necessarily need to (or feel like they ought to) make any sort of commitment. IMO Early Access is counterproductive w.r.t. the whole idea of making commitments and releasing finished games. I know, this is probably not a popular view, and lots of people love it; it's a form of instant gratification, after all."
This is in contrast to WMD, a model which hold the developers more accountable than anything before it.
Note that this posting is basically agreeing with you, just with my personal view on EA added.
@DrJustice -- I realize I used a term with a particular meaning, but I really just meant...accessing the game early. And I know that wasn't the point of WMD, but that's how a fraction of WMD backers treated it.
...not defending or taking sides with devs and or other companies involved with PCars, but forget it one of THE only TITLES around and last years which has come out on almost all platforms...which no other title can say for itself. not a single one I know of Sim Racing games out there....just to put it out there as a hats off to SMS and WMD.
of course, they still need to test on various platforms, configs and etc, and take care kf all the bugs through patches. (i have not played at all on the PC, just PS4, after inital 2hours on a buddies PC he decided to delete it and wait for patches and updates, PS4 is more stable and way better so far than PC...) but fingers crossed and for all of us annoyed, upset and disappointed...things will get better!!!
Ah OK - and you're right, some just wanted early access, which was not the point of WMD of course.
We may have drifted somewhat off topic here...
Despite my controller woes SMS have bult up a fair deal of goodwill with me simply by acknowledging that there is a problem in the first place. I'm confident they've released the patch as soon as they can and the ball's in Namco/MS's court now.
I guess Project CARS is as prone to the fast vs good vs cheap project management triangle as any other project.
This may be true, but how come none of the PAID quality testers didn't find these controller problems?
I have not had any real bug/glitch issues that have given me remorse in my purchase as others have. I do feel that some things about the design of the game come up well short though. The lack of drafting. Not enough or no info in certain menu's or in parts of the game such as career. How long do you want the race to be? Who knows because it only gives you info on how long the practice will be as you move the little slider. Some cars feel numb and detached from the track. It's enjoyable, but.
Not an exciting update to my standards, but at least this should work on the bugs a bit. And...
'Console TT is now set to 11am to match PC'
What's Console TT?