The 2017 Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1 

prisonermonkeys

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So what I take from that is Bernie is charging so much that even with a full crowd they're still only just breaking even/making a small profit?
More likely that it's the BRDC being the BRDC. They're so caught up in the history of the British Grand Prix that they forget about the future of it. Neglecting the circuit's finances to the point where the event is doomed while their backs are turned as they run around trying to find new owners sounds like exactly the sort of thing that the BRDC would do.
 

Barra333

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More likely that it's the BRDC being the BRDC. They're so caught up in the history of the British Grand Prix that they forget about the future of it. Neglecting the circuit's finances to the point where the event is doomed while their backs are turned as they run around trying to find new owners sounds like exactly the sort of thing that the BRDC would do.
Nothing to do with the tens of millions that Bernie wants for hosting the GP?
 

prisonermonkeys

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Nothing to do with the tens of millions that Bernie wants for hosting the GP?
The BRDC were the ones who made a huge ruckus a few years ago and got a seventeen-year deal. They clearly said that they wouldn't sign it if it wasn't a good deal for Silverstone. In the time since, they've hopelessly mismanaged it, trying and failing to find new investors and buyers. So if they're in trouble, it's their own stupid fault.
 

Jimlaad43

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It's the new owner of Silverstone, he has said that he isn't going to bankrupt the circuit just for the F1. He doesn't want to lose the GP, but if it doesn't make financial sense, he will drop it.
 
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...if they're in trouble, it's their own stupid fault.

Surely you have to factor in the completely self-funded aspect? Unlike "flagship" races in many other countries the British GP receives zero in subsidy. For the circuit to survive this long shows the quality of the investment plan around the science park and business premises. What's pricing them out of their forecast is the rising price of the races. Again. The deal is indeed seventeen years but, as can be plainly seen, with caveats regarding affordability.

I'm glad we've had another few years of the British GP and I hope we have many more... but the fact that it's got this far points to anything other than stupidity on the part of the business managers.
 

prisonermonkeys

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Surely you have to factor in the completely self-funded aspect?
You do, but how long have they been in negotiations over the ownership? Their investment hinges on finding new sources of income, but for them to go from a position of relative stability to having to consider activating an exit clause suggests that it hasn't been managed particularly well. Always be mindful of projects that grow like clockwork. It usually means someone is asleep at the wheel.
 
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I think the only hope is to tear up the current circuit contracts and the new F1 owners renegotiate every single contract for2017 onwards.After all, they did say they want to reduce circuit fees and dont mind losing a bit of money.Also they say yhey want to keep the european races. This could be a real statement of intent by liberty media and a great start to their tenure.
 
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Jimlaad43

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You do, but how long have they been in negotiations over the ownership? Their investment hinges on finding new sources of income, but for them to go from a position of relative stability to having to consider activating an exit clause suggests that it hasn't been managed particularly well. Always be mindful of projects that grow like clockwork. It usually means someone is asleep at the wheel.
The old owners were not stable at all, it was actually a bit dodgy and the circuit was losing money and sending out payments it didn't need to. Since Patrick Allen took over he's been trying to balance the books as much as he can, and just securing enough funding to deal with the ever increasing F1 fees (I think it's £500,000+5% every year or something) is the point of new investors.
 

prisonermonkeys

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Since Patrick Allen took over he's been trying to balance the books as much as he can, and just securing enough funding to deal with the ever increasing F1 fees (I think it's £500,000+5% every year or something) is the point of new investors.
The terms of that deal are much better than the deals that other circuits get, both in terms of the lump sum and the yearly increase. It's easy to blame Bernie, but the BRDC have a history of mismanagement.
 

Barra333

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The terms of that deal are much better than the deals that other circuits get, both in terms of the lump sum and the yearly increase. It's easy to blame Bernie, but the BRDC have a history of mismanagement.
Having to find an extra ~£2m every year (£500,000 + 5% of ~£30m) is not particularly sustainable for anyone who is not bankrolled by a national government and/or oil money. They may well be in a bigger pickle due to mismanagement, but astronomical hosting fees is the bigger problem IMO.
 

Barra333

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And yet, every other circuit seems to be doing just fine.
Most of them with government funding. And every time the contract comes around, most of them question the return they are getting on their multi-million dollar outlay each year.
Genuine question, how many races are not supported in any way by local or federal government money?
 
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And yet, every other circuit seems to be doing just fine.
How many of them get NO assistance from a government etc? Now take the cost of hosting the race, divide that by the expected number of spectators and then work out how many of them are willing to actually pay that.
 

prisonermonkeys

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And how many of them stubbornly refuse to upgrade their facilities, even when the existing facilities are falling apart? The creation of the Silverstone Wing wasn't the BRDC bowing to Ecclestone - it was a long-overdue upgrade that they kept putting off, insisting that the original pits were fine despite the way teams used to have to bring their own floors because they were in such a bad state.
 

prisonermonkeys

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Tell that to Hockenheim and Nurburgring.
You mean the Nürburgring that tried to turn itself into a theme park and ran up a massive debt? Or the Hockenheimring that seems surprised when they don't get bums on seats at ten in the morning on a work day?
 

prisonermonkeys

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No, but it's widely believed that attendance figures are down because the German public haven't taken to any of the German drivers.
 

Jimlaad43

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Which has nothing to do with your previous point about it. Hockenheim is packed when the DTM come around, but they just haven't gelled with Vettel or Rosberg. They don't even consider Rosberg to be German anyway, which also doesn't help. Hockenheim want to host the race, but the fans don't care, and because it's not China or another country like that, they can't get away with losing a load of money from empty Grandstands.
 
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Which has nothing to do with your previous point about it. Hockenheim is packed when the DTM come around, but they just haven't gelled with Vettel or Rosberg. They don't even consider Rosberg to be German anyway, which also doesn't help. Hockenheim want to host the race, but the fans don't care, and because it's not China or another country like that, they can't get away with losing a load of money from empty Grandstands.
Everybody forgets that Le Mans winner....Nico Hulkenburg is German. Is it because he is not always winning F1 races ? possibly. The Germans dont seem fussed on F1 at all at the moment and nobody seems to know why. Why dont Germans like F1 anymore ? That really is the million dollar question !
 

TheCracker

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Everybody forgets that Le Mans winner....Nico Hulkenburg is German. Is it because he is not always winning F1 races ? possibly. The Germans dont seem fussed on F1 at all at the moment and nobody seems to know why. Why dont Germans like F1 anymore ? That really is the million dollar question !

They were never all that fussed about F1 before Schumacher made his mark.
 

Dotini

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No, but it's widely believed that attendance figures are down because the German public haven't taken to any of the German drivers.
GP racing was originally instituted in 1906 by manufacturers as a means to lure the horse-and-buggy public into buying cars. Now the developed nations are crammed with cars, and manufacturers properly look to developing nations to race their wares. It used to be the drivers sat on top of the cars, with their faces, hands and elbows fully visible. Now they are masked and buried in the cars so only part of the helmet is showing. Racing in developed countries has become a dull, meaningless and boring affair to a new generation of post-relationship millennials with truncated attention spans and their heads always looking down into their devices. F1 faces the same basic problem as NASCAR, and I don't think it can really be solved.
 

Liquid

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Do we have an answer as to the number of F1 tracks with zero government funding?