Gran Turismo Sophy: Sony AI x Polyphony Digital

  • Thread starter Magog
  • 1,675 comments
  • 176,976 views
We have a real opportunity here to feedback on a feature that’s in development.
The sort of feedback I’m going to give is going along these lines:

Imo good AI should be similar to the player pace lap after lap. There shouldn’t be three difficulty settings because that’s far too limiting across a large user base.

If they were to use Sophy AI as a training tool then they need to teach the user all about consistency. When you’re behind Sophy you should be able to to stay with it each lap so you can tactically think about the pass. Where in the lap is Sophy stronger where am I stronger etc. Line it up to pass just like real world racing. The benefits to the user when they go online will be there for all to benefit from. This is what creates good racecraft.

Each car has its own strengths and weaknesses. Some are better on straights and some are faster through corners. Similar paced AI in a different car should lap a similar time if Balance of Performance is set correctly. But the differences in a car’s strengths and weaknesses offer up passing opportunities.

It’s for this very reason that Sophy AI’s difficulty should be set on a sliding scale from 1 -100.
It should be set on a per track and car basis and saved and can be tweaked by the user as they improve.

The user should set a baseline at each new track/car combo (implemented by setting a qualifying time)
This generates a baseline value for the player between 1-100 for the AI strength and the AI grid is automatically fleshed out with similar times +/- a couple of seconds across the grid.

This would almost guarantee great offline racing and allow people to learn the necessary skills when they venture online.

A sliding scale 1-100 is infinitely better than 3 difficulty settings.

Keep the 3 difficulty settings for career mode and use the sliding scale for custom races and a new sport mode that uses the system as a licence test to go race online.
And online should then have higher payouts for clean racers.

I’m excited that Sony are looking at machine learning and that this is coming to GT but I think our feedback is equally important and I hope everyone gets onboard. It’s a rare chance to influence the game. And we need all the voices we can to make the devs deliver what we want.
 
Last edited:
If only they released the game on PC, then I wouldn't need to spend 4 times what I earn in a month for a PS5 to try out SOPHY..

..I would just need, like, 1.5 times my wage for a good CPU instead (don't think my i3 would cut it).
 
RIP PS4 owners. At least you had a year of fun. Now the PS5 is starting to put a real tangible distance between the old and new platforms. Can't wait for this update. I believe Sophy will make those who have access to it much better drivers.
It's hardly the end of the road.

VR support isn't something I'll personally miss and the Sophy content is only a small part of the game (although a highly important one considering the state of the current AI). Those differences are certainly not worth the £500 extra if you wanted to upgrade from PS4 to PS5.
 
Last edited:
We have a real opportunity here to feedback on a feature that’s in development.
The sort of feedback I’m going to give is going along these lines:

Imo good AI should be similar to the player pace lap after lap. There shouldn’t be three difficulty settings because that’s far too limiting across a large user base.

If they were to use Sophy AI as a training tool then they need to teach the user all about consistency. When you’re behind Sophy you should be able to to stay with it each lap so you can tactically think about the pass. Where in the lap is Sophy stronger where am I stronger etc. Line it up to pass just like real world racing. The benefits to the user when they go online will be there for all to benefit from. This is what creates good racecraft.

Each car has its own strengths and weaknesses. Some are better on straights and some are faster through corners. Similar paced AI in a different car should lap a similar time if Balance of Performance is set correctly. But the differences in a car’s strengths and weaknesses offer up passing opportunities.

It’s for this very reason that Sophy AI’s difficulty should be set on a sliding scale from 1 -100.
It should be set on a per track and car basis and saved and can be tweaked by the user as they improve.

The user should set a baseline at each new track/car combo (implemented by setting a qualifying time)
This generates a baseline value for the player between 1-100 for the AI strength and the AI grid is automatically fleshed out with similar times +/- a couple of seconds across the grid.

This would almost guarantee great offline racing and allow people to learn the necessary skills when they venture online.

A sliding scale 1-100 is infinitely better than 3 difficulty settings.

Keep the 3 difficulty settings for career mode and use the sliding scale for custom races and a new sport mode that uses the system as a licence test to go race online.
And online should then have higher payouts for clean racers.

I’m excited that Sony are looking at machine learning and that this is coming to GT but I think our feedback is equally important and I hope everyone gets onboard. It’s a rare chance to influence the game. And we need all the voices we can to make the devs deliver what we want.
PC2 had the difficulty slider as well as their personality. Took a bit to set up but we found say 91% or whatever the number was almost perfect, as we got better we just dialled it up. I always said it’s too bad they can gauge it and automatically bump it up as you race just for that race. I don’t know about you but my first few laps are usually slower than my last laps.
say you set up a race for 10 laps, if you set it to 91% maybe by the end it’s ramped itself up to 94% just to keep it close.


You‘D think it could just use a persons lap times or the top three drivers lap times and automatically adjust to that. They’re running 1:45’s and Sophy is running 1:48’s crank her up a little.

Honestly though, if all they’re going to do is give three settings and allow AI into online lobbies, even if it’s only four cars, that would be great.
 
I'm a bit surprised that they put a time limit on GT Sophy's availability. I hope that it'll become a permanent component sometime soon.

Could be that they’ll be cycling cars and tracks (and maybe additional opponent counts/functionality) as time goes on? No clue if this will be streaming back data for the AI dev team/additional machine learning data or if this iteration is purely a public taste test.
 
Thx for the article Nathan88. Interesting how they described this version of Sophy's etiquette as 'polite.' We shall see! I'm certainly going to present different versions of myself to observe how Sophy reacts. Will it dive if I leave the door open? What happens if I weave and block? And many subtle tricks to try and see just exactly how smart it really is.

Sony has been strategizing AI to become an autonomous player. This is just the beginning.

1676926533150.png
 
Last edited:
When I first hear about it I was sceptical it would ever come to GT7 even though they said it would.

Hopefully they add more and more Sophy races to GT7 and then make it GT8's standard AI.

Considering the amount of hours I put into every GT game with its awful AI I dread to think how many more hours I'll put into it with decent AI, might have to quit my job lol
 
Moment of silence for everybody who thought PS4 would be updated in perpetuity. Wouldn't surprise me if they start phasing out updates for PS4 by the end of the year.

Anyways, about Sophy.. it's intriguing. We've all seen how BingAI, ChatGPT, Dall-E and some of the other AI systems have developed over time, I can only imagine that once they've given Sophy enough data to chew on, it'll be the smartest driver on the grid.

ChatGPT has only been public for a couple months and it can already pass the BAR Exam. Yes, I know, it's a conversational AI which is in no way similar to an AI driver, but machine learning is machine learning. You pump this thing full of enough datasets and it'll surprise even the devs.
 
Last edited:
It's hardly the end of the road.

VR support isn't something I'll personally miss and the Sophy content is only a small part of the game (although a highly important one considering the state of the current AI). Those differences are certainly not worth the £500 extra if you wanted to upgrade from PS4 to PS5.
It's hardly the end of the road.

VR support isn't something I'll personally miss and the Sophy content is only a small part of the game (although a highly important one considering the state of the current AI). Those differences are certainly not worth the £500 extra if you wanted to upgrade from PS4 to PS5.
Whatever you need to do to convince yourself that the PS4 is still relevant is fine with me. The truth is, the PS4 has reached a cul de sac in its ability to showcase all the offerings GT7 has to offer, from this update forward. It's only going to get worse for PS4 owners, as they find themselves excluded from game changing content. OK, so you don't care about PSRV2, but there are many who do, and they will be looking to upgrade their gaming experience if they want to be fully immersed in GT7. PS5 is the only way forward, as it should be from this point onward. PS5 owners will have the best training tool (in Sophy A.I) to make them faster. That's just a undesputable fact.
 
Last edited:
Whatever you need to do to convince yourself that the PS4 is still relevant is fine with me. The truth is, the PS4 has reached a cul de sac in its ability to showcase all the offerings GT7 has to offer, from this update forward. It's only going to get worse for PS4 owners, as they find themselves excluded from game changing content. OK, so you don't care about PSRV2, but there are many who do, and they will be looking to upgrade their gaming experience if they want to be fully immersed in GT7. PS5 is the only way forward, as it should be from this point onward. PS5 owners will have the best training tool (in Sophy A.I) to make them faster. That's just a undesputable fact.
Plus, we have industry examples of this exact thing happening. GTA V for example - once the next-gen versions came out, the OG games got axed on updates. But someone will say "hurr durr but they released the ps4 and ps5 versions together at the same time!" Uh, so? If one consoles hardware can no longer support the updates because either load times get unruly or processing power gets too consumed, yeah.. you're gonna stop getting updates for it.

It's not rocket appliances here.
 
To be honest... can't this be done via Cloud computing? The game is already online only, why not making this AI traning on servers and sending AI input from the cloud? To be honest I wouldn't mind having online only game if we would get super human AI for SP racing.
it can't, you may need as 10 times as broad band (think about lagging and how many calculations need per milisecond) is better to use advanced gpu on ps5, which leads to a possible trouble, how graphics are gonna be affected by the use of multiple instances on a single gpu? i may have to point that ps5 gpu is equal to Super-RTX 2070 with 8 gb
 
Plus, we have industry examples of this exact thing happening. GTA V for example - once the next-gen versions came out, the OG games got axed on updates. But someone will say "hurr durr but they released the ps4 and ps5 versions together at the same time!" Uh, so? If one consoles hardware can no longer support the updates because either load times get unruly or processing power gets too consumed, yeah.. you're gonna stop getting updates for it.

It's not rocket appliances here.
And how exactly will the PS4 not support the addition of new cars and tracks?

So far, with this very first "PS5 exclusive GT7 experiences," neither of it is enough to get me to drop $500 on the new console (zero interest in VR, and zero interest in being a beta tester for Sophy). But I do care about new tracks and cars, and I gotta imagine that I'm not alone in this camp, so yeah, PS4 players still have relevency. If we didn't, this update would be been entirely PS5 exclusive.

As a from-PS3-Launch player of GT5/Online, the GTA Online (because let's face it, there have been zero single-player updates for GTA5) comparison is not apt; that discontinuation of updates for the older consoles is purely driven by the desire to sell new versions of games people already have and a lack of desire to hire play testers for the old versions, which both come down to financial incentive. Nothing added to that game (aside from the increased player count in lobbies) required any additional processing power that the PS3/X360 couldn't handle. Have you ever played GTAO PS5/XbX/PC versions? Loading times are still horrible.

I think Sony knows damn well that a super-niche product like VR and a demo of Sophy is not enough to convince most GT7 PS4 players to jump to PS5, and thus they will continue to provide content updates and bug fixes for the PS4 version.
 
Last edited:
What if you abuse the AI? Can we expect some kind of retribution on its part? Maybe it won't lose its "temper" and ram you out, but it could activate 'alien mode' and leave you in the dust.
They could, for once, enable contact penalties in the single player. It's certainly justifiable if the bot races clean.

How many of us are planning on taking out Violette turn one for that easy 25k?
 

Latest Posts

Back