RIDOX Replica Garage-In Memory of TurnLeft-GT40,300ZX,F430,TVR,AEM S2000,Cizeta,TransAm Doug Nash

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Ridox2JZGTE, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. cbarbosa

    cbarbosa Premium

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    My favourite supercar! :tup: Looking foward for it...
     
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  2. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Which one do you think is easier to drive or better handling ? The Acura or the Type R ?
     
  3. danbojte

    danbojte

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    3,372
    Location:
    Romania
    ib, Supercar Festival, Monza, SS, Camber used, ABS 0 - Winner, but not against McLaren - against Pagani! Super Car! :tup:

    The Honda is a little bit better and faster if I have to chose, but I love both the same. Excellent! :tup:
     
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  4. Nomad67

    Nomad67 (Banned)

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    182

    Ohhhh can't wait for this one :)
     
  5. LS Chiou

    LS Chiou

    Messages:
    368

    Thanks a lot. :)

    -0.30 rear toe out is indeed too much for race event (OK for 1 or 2 laps trial run). With SS tire, the rear becomes overly loose after 3 or 4 laps in Ascari. Then I reduce the angle to -0.12, feel better with worn tire.

    Still, it's a hard race. Walking leisurely alone and accompanied by a bunch of hooligans are completely different. I got three problems: 1) Resisting the temptation of pressing throttle is a torture in a race; 2) Being at the edge of loosing control, it's hard to keep the car on track in the crowd. A slight touch at the rear bumper is enough to kick me out of shape; 3) Tire wear would be 9/7 or 9/6 in lap 4 or 5 with SS. With such f/r unbalance, the rear becomes even looser and can be very dangerous at some certain corners. (and, it can be OK first and a suddent big sliding at the next lap, same spot.)

    All the 3 problems may take turns hitting me, or happen at the same (miserable) moment. Eventually I finished 4th:( (The closest gap with the leader was 10 sec. or so in lap 6, I thought there might be hope and pushed it a little. Uh oh, no good, I spun out. It can't be pushed. Then I was forced to slow down and watched them pulling away. :( )

    Will try your new setup. (hmmm, 500PP? I remember it's 550 previously)

    Also, I'm looking forward to see your work on F40. Another beast. :tup:
     
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  6. Nomad67

    Nomad67 (Banned)

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    182

    Well, right off this thing is begg'in for Downforce. Rear end grip comes at a premium as this power house is itching to let loose all its pony's. I played around with it a bit on Tsukuba and stock everything, running cs tires I was in the 1:07xx. Didn't get to pull it out of second too often lol.

    You don't start generating ANY Downforce until you've hit 85-86mph...its only then you start to notice some bite in the rear end...other than that its a drift car by default :/

    ***Ran a few laps on SH and got her down to the 1:03xx. Eveything as stock
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  7. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    Typo, sorry :p. 550PP. Racing the V16T with tire wear is tricky, the car needs a lot of care to keep the rear in check. This is what makes the Cizeta special :)

    The F40 in stock form from PD is a mess, gearing is off, weight also off, dry weight figures are varied even on one region ( US or EU ), the EU F40 dry has from as low as 1140+kg to 1230+kg, while the US dry has from 1280+kg to just over 1300kg. Then we are not even going into weight distribution and power figures. The actual F40 has a lot more power than the stated on brochure. US has more power even with cats installed and shorter gearing to compensate for the added weight due to comply with US Federal rules. I will use lowest reported corner weight of F40. I will also list power for EU with cars and without cats ( good power bump ) and US power with cats from dyno results which is similar to EU without cats - US cars running different engine tune.

    Both US and EU version when tested can run 1:02s on CS, I usually ran low 1:03s with moderate pace :p The real lap record for F40 at Tsukuba 1:03.7xx.
    Real life record for F40 at Suzuka is at 2:25.27, the US and EU F40 can run 2:24s easily on CS tire.

    I may also list several spring rate combo, the stock spring rate can't be achieved, so I used the spring ratio instead. For better rear stability, I will list alternate spring rate ratio that often used for track purposes in real life.
     
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  8. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    Tjaarda Ford Mustang GT 550R BOSS 302 '13 ( Real World Setup version )
    Fast & Furious Fantasy Replica

    Special Build Replica with Real World Alignment Tjaarda Mustang GT 550R
    Comfort Soft to Sports Medium



    Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit_64.jpg


    CAR : Ford Mustang BOSS 302 '13
    Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium

    Specs

    Horsepower: 490 HP at 6400 RPM - alternative GT 550R 550HP
    Torque: 489.8 ft-lb at 4800 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 89% - alternative GT 550R power : 99.9%
    Weight: 1647 kg
    Ballast : 0 kg
    Ballast Position : 0
    Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as in real life
    Performance Points: 521



    GT AUTO
    NO Oil change
    Wheels : +1 Inch Up - RAYS 57Gainer in Silver
    Car Paint : School Bus Yellow / Black Stripes



    Tuning Parts Installed :
    Racing Exhaust
    Supercharger
    Twin Plate Clutch
    Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
    Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission ( Optional )
    Adjustable LSD



    Suspension - Ford Racing FR500 Coilover Kit Lowered
    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 97 70 ( lower rear to maintain visual level height )
    Spring Rate: 8.93 12.50
    Dampers (Compression): 3 6
    Dampers (Extension): 2 6
    Anti-Roll Bars: 3 2
    Camber Angle: 1.8 0.7
    Toe Angle: 0.00 0.38


    DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - XTrac 416 Sequential Gearbox - Optional
    Install all power parts
    Set Default
    Set Final to 5.000
    Set Auto Max Speed to 200kmh / 124mph
    Adjust each gear :
    1st 3.071
    2nd 2.071
    3rd 1.647
    4th 1.350
    5th 1.143
    6th 1.000
    Final Gear : 3.100 ( Use 3.730 or 3.980 Final for lower speed tracks )


    LSD -Ford Racing T2R Race Master Traction Differential
    Initial Torque : 24
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 27
    Braking Sensitivity: 10


    Alternate Setup ( loose )
    Initial Torque : 20
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 20
    Braking Sensitivity: 10




    Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit_61.jpg


    Brake Balance:
    7/9 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/8, for ABS 1 7/9 or feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

    Recommended setting for DS3 user :
    Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 7/9 brake balance as starting point.



    Notes :
    The yellow Tjaarda Mustang was featured in 4th installment of fast and furious movie series.

    I tried to make a replica using the closest car - Mustang GT '05, but it couldn't be done as the car weight distribution was not possible to be fixed and gearing issues.

    I decided to make a fantasy car replica using newer Mustang BOSS 302 '13, much easier to get close to the real Tjaarda spec used in the movie, 490HP with supercharger.

    I kept the gearing, weight and distribution stock - same as in real life Tjaarda Mustang, then I tuned the suspension and LSD. I used real world setup for alignment ( toe and camber ).

    The car is fun to drive, a little slow with the weight it has, but should be enjoyable.



    ENJOY :cheers:

    UPDATE : Added alternate LSD setup for looser handling and optional Xtrac 416 Transmission - tested at Bathurst on comfort soft and sports medium.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  9. Nomad67

    Nomad67 (Banned)

    Messages:
    182
    Will try this one on the weekend. So this looks likes its tuned for Silverstone?? Would I be correct in assuming with some final gear changes band I'm good to go on Tsukuba?


    Oppps just noticed you didn't set up a tranny lol
     
  10. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    I drove the car at Ascari, Tsukuba, Brands Hatch, Silverstone and Bathurst :) It's a road car replica in similar power to the Tjaarda Mustang in FF4 :) Not really quick, the car used in the movie has only suspension and supercharger upgrades as well some small mods ( wheels, body kit ) - 490HP quoted HP, but during movie shooting, power kept at 470HP.

    The real car has Mustang GT stock weight, lighter than the BOSS, but the Mustang GT in GT6 can't be used - inaccurate distribution and gearing that hurt the performance badly. :(
     
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  11. Nomad67

    Nomad67 (Banned)

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    182
    Well sir.. I know your plate is full but if you get a chance could you have a boo at a tranny set up? :)
     
  12. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    I'll put Tremec T6060 transmission in, as used in real life Ford Racing Mustang BOSS 302S 2014 :) I may make this replica as well :p
     
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  13. Nomad67

    Nomad67 (Banned)

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    182

    Many many thanks my friend :)
     
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  14. danbojte

    danbojte

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    3,372
    Location:
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    ib, Tour of America, 521PP, CS, Camber used, ABS 0, Changed at 7000 rpm - Winner! :tup:
     
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  15. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    Great win !! I hope the car didn't drive like a big boat on a wheel :p

    I haven't got a chance to play yet, still on 1.06 :lol: Will stay on 1.06 for a while, my next play will update the Tjaarda with T6060 transmission and the US F40 :p The F40 will be very complicated ;) with several ride height setup, spring rate and 2 sets of LSD. Some pictures -comparison real life and GT6 ground clearance will also be added, expect big post.
     
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  16. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    I tried the Tremec T6060 ratios, didn't work well, the result is way too high in top speed.

    So, I opted to use Xtrac 416 ratios as used on most GT3 replicas. It works nicely, the 3.100 final has good spread and top speed, use 3.730 or 3.980 for lower speed tracks. :cheers: Tune update above.
     
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  17. Nomad67

    Nomad67 (Banned)

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    182
    Thanks will give it a try tomorrow. I've been making some cash and working on the seasonals. Scored that BMW VGT. So now on Nordschleife seeing what kinds of lap times I can manage. Pulling a 6:47xxx However this car is very querky and the curb monsters loves this car...and they want to play with the Beemer...but the Beemer doesn't want anything to do with the curb monsters... So needless to say there is a lot of tension that I am trying to mediate between the two :/

    This has lots of potential just needs some work. Unfortunately you can't touch the tranny which sucks...no power mods...just the basics :)

    I just did a consistent 53,6xx on Tsukuba with RH's which is a good 1.5 sec off my best lap with stock tune...in which I was not able to repeat last night...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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  18. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    Ferrari F40 '92 ( Real World Setup version ) US Market Version

    Special Build Replica with Real World Setup Ferrari F40 '92 US Market version
    Comfort Soft to Sports Medium



    Ascari Full Track_28.jpg


    CAR : Ferrari F40 '92
    Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium

    Specs

    Horsepower: 503 HP / 510 PS at 7000 RPM
    Torque: 455.0 ft-lb at 4000 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 99.9%
    Weight: 1286 kg ( lowest dry weight )
    Ballast : 174 kg
    Ballast Position : 1
    Weight Distribution : 42 / 58 as in real life ( dry weight )
    Performance Points: 543


    GT AUTO
    NO Oil change
    Wheels : Stock
    Car Paint : Rosso Corsa

    Suzuka Circuit_2.jpg


    Tuning Parts Installed :
    Intake Tuning or Optional High RPM Range Turbo Kit -- see notes for more details.
    Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
    Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
    Adjustable LSD
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Window Weight Reduction



    Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs with Street/Track Tuned Damper and Real World Alignment
    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 101 101 - standard - Alternate Ride Height F/R : 63 56 ( lowest ), 115 115 ( high ) and 81 101 ( track lowered)
    Spring Rate: 8.25 12.00 - Alternate High Speed Track Oriented Spring Rate F/R : 12.00 12.00
    Dampers (Compression): 7 6
    Dampers (Extension): 7 5
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
    Camber Angle: 0.5 1.8
    Toe Angle: 0.33 0.33


    Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs based on stock F40 spring ratio with Street/Track Tuned Damper with
    Real World Alignment and Ride Height based on Best Motoring Tsukuba Battle driven by Motoharu Kurosawa

    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 81 81 - Best Motoring Battle
    Spring Rate: 8.04 11.61 - Based on factory F40 spring rate ratio
    Dampers (Compression): 7 7
    Dampers (Extension): 7 6
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
    Camber Angle: 0.5 1.8
    Toe Angle: 0.33 0.33

    Ferrari F40 US Edition Technical Manual Alignment Range :
    Camber Angle : 1.10 1.0 ( Front Camber Range : -1.16 +/- -1.50, Rear Camber Range : -1.0 +/- -1.33 )
    Toe Angle : 0.20 0.33 ( Front Toe In Range : 0.20 +/- 0.33, Rear Toe In Range : 0.33 +/- 0.46 )



    DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Corrected US Market Ratio Gear Set and Final
    Install all power parts
    Set Default
    Set Final to 4.000
    Set Auto Max Speed to 220kmh / 137mph ( lowest )
    Adjust each gear :
    1st 3.692
    2nd 2.286
    3rd 1.636
    4th 1.284
    5th 1.022
    Final Gear : 2.900
    Optimum Shift Point : 7400-7700 RPM ( as in real life )


    LSD -ZF Self Locking LSD with 60% Lock and Medium Preload - AUTO Motorsport Mag 1989 Review Version
    Initial Torque : 30
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 36
    Braking Sensitivity: 36

    Alternate LSD Setup for looser handling :

    Initial Torque : 27
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 36
    Braking Sensitivity: 36

    or

    Initial Torque : 20
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 36
    Braking Sensitivity: 36


    OPTIONAL LSD SETUP F355 Spec :
    LSD -ZF Self Locking LSD with 45% Lock and High Preload
    Initial Torque : 40
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 27
    Braking Sensitivity: 27

    Alternate LSD Setup for looser handling :

    Initial Torque : 37
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 27
    Braking Sensitivity: 27

    or

    Initial Torque : 17
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 27
    Braking Sensitivity: 27




    Suzuka Circuit_1.jpg


    Suzuka Circuit.jpg


    Brake Balance:
    7/6 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/4, for ABS 1 7/6 or feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

    Recommended setting for DS3 user :
    Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 7/6 brake balance as starting point.



    Notes :
    Ferrari F40, the last great Ferrari IMO, no electronics aids, just pure man and machine :)

    This car is one of my most favorite ride in GT5 and GT6, and it's well known for it's inaccuracy in terms of stats and stock setup.

    I made this special replica build with the main goal of correcting the mistakes and make it handle more like a Ferrari, whatever that means :p

    First of all, there are 2 region market for Ferrari F40, Europe and US. Both has distinctive setup from power, weight to gearing.

    The US market has heavier dry weight, with added parts and interior + exterior modification to comply with US Federal regulations. To compensate for the added weight, US F40 also has higher power output and closer gearing. This gives US F40 roughly close performance to the EU F40 when both have cats installed ( catalytic converters ). All US F40 do not come with variable ride height system ( lift kit ) when sold, while the EU F40 factory delivered with the lift kit system. Several US F40 have been retrofitted with lift kit :)

    This replica is a representation of US F40 with lift kit, EIBACH ERS springs installed and lowest reported corner weight ( dry ).

    The power of US F40 from dyno reports of around just below 500HP to 503HP / 510PS with dry weight of 1286kg / 2835 lbs and 42/58 weight distribution.

    To achieve the power figure, I decided to use Intake Tuning, this gives higher torque increase while replicating power.
    I used it as I prefer stock turbo characteristics, use High RPM Range Turbo Kit instead, if you want lower torque / closer to real life torque at the expense of altered turbo characteristics and set power limiter at 99.4% - 503HP, 438.6 ft-lb.

    For suspension, I have used EIBACH ERS springs at 8.25kg/mm front and 12.0kg/mm rear, maintaining spring ratio for the stock F40 spring rate, as the stock value can't be achieved. Damper setup for street and track, with ARB set for balance. Toe and camber has been setup with real world alignment values, based on F355 alignment which from report share similar alignment with F40 - closest information I can get :)

    An alternate spring rate at 12kg/mm front and rear also provided, this is more oriented for high speed cornering and sweepers.

    The real Ferrari F40 has ZF Self Locking LSD, based from Auto Motorsport review specs, the rear LSD has 60% lock, I have tuned likewise, with medium preload. The previous replica LSD which uses specs from Ferrari F355 with 45% lock and high preload also listed as optional.

    Transmission has also been fixed, with correct US F40 ratios and final. Top speed of real F40 in US record at 324kmh/201mph has also been replicated, furthermore, the rolling acceleration time and vehicle speed at 5th gear 1000rpm has been closely replicated - similar to the tested reports from the magazine.

    Various test results from Auto Motorsport mag :

    60kmh-100kmh in 4th gear rolling acceleration : 6.3s
    80kmh-120kmh in 5th gear rolling acceleration : 8.5s
    5th Gear speed at 1000 RPM : 43.5kmh

    F40 speed on each gear at about 7400-7700rpm optimal shift point :
    1st 90kmh
    2nd 144kmh
    3rd 201kmh
    4th 255kmh
    5th 321+kmh

    Feel free to try it at SSR7 :)


    The F40 was extensively tuned/tested at Ascari, Tsukuba, Spa, Bathurst, Nordschleife, SSR7, Apricot Hill, Brands Hatch GP and Willow Springs.

    I also managed to replicate the real life lap time of F40 at Tsukuba, done on Best Motoring at 1:03.73. The car easily do low 1:03s, while my best was 1:02s on comfort soft :D

    Another real life at Suzuka record 2:25.27 in real life can easily be replicated, with my 1st lap at high 2:24s :p, also on comfort soft.



    ENJOY :cheers:

    UPDATE : Thanks to @danbojte for the invaluable input, a setup combo from the replica tune used on wheel ( G27 ) :

    Suspension
    Ride Height: 81 101 - track lowered
    Spring Rate: 12.00 12.00 - High Speed Track Oriented Spring Rate
    Dampers (Compression): 7 6
    Dampers (Extension): 7 5
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
    Camber Angle: 0.5 1.8
    Toe Angle: 0.33 0.33

    Brake Balance : 6 / 4

    LSD - Original Base Setup
    Initial Torque : 40
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 27
    Braking Sensitivity: 27

    Should work well for races



    Real life vs GT6 Ride Height :

    F/R 115mm / 115mm GT6 vs High Setting Lift Kit

    Gemasolar_89.jpg
    f40d1.jpg

    F/R 101mm / 101mm GT6 vs Standard Lowered Setting Lift Kit

    Gemasolar_90.jpg
    1987-Ferrari-F40-V1-1080lowered.jpg

    F/R 81mm / 101mm GT6 vs Track Lowered Setting Lift Kit

    Gemasolar_88.jpg
    90-Ferrari-F40-DV-13-GCA_02ss.jpg

    Mount Panorama Motor Racing Circuit_123.jpg
    EUf40 1 - factory lowered.jpg

    F/R 63mm / 56mm GT6 vs Dropped F40

    Mount Panorama Motor Racing Circuit_127.jpg
    EUF40dropped.jpg

    UPDATE : Added LSD spec from Auto Motorsport Feb '89 review, and listed F355 LSD spec as optional.

    UPDATE 1.09 : Added Ferrari F40 US Edition Tech Manual Alignment Range, highly recommended to be used as a base to start.



    UPDATE 1.19 : Updated gear ratios, each individual gears are calculated by taking into account the idler gear ratio, while still use the actual final drive 2.900 / 10:29 as per manual for US F40. Speed at revlimit 7750RPM is correct.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  19. SSJGZWarrior

    SSJGZWarrior

    Messages:
    750
    Location:
    United States
    I noticed your replica gt3 set-ups have you tried doing a replica gt3 set-up for the McLaren MP4-12c '10 and Nissan GTR?
     
  20. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    I will post the McLaren MP4-12C after I posted EU F40 :) Then Ford GT GT3, while for GTR, there's already a tune for it under bonus tune ( we have the real GT3 GTR, including base model in GT6 ). We will be getting another GT3 Blancpain car soon in game, Team GT Academy RJN Youtube livery GT3. Check 1.07 update undocumented changes thread.
     
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  21. SSJGZWarrior

    SSJGZWarrior

    Messages:
    750
    Location:
    United States
    awww sweet the the Ford GT3 one of my favorite GT3 cars or actually GT1 car. The Matech Ford's were always my favorite GT cars along with the Gulf Aston Martin Vantage and the McLarens [​IMG]

    I know we have the real Nissan GTR GT3 cars I was wondering if there's a way to set up a regular stock GTR to your replica GT3 cars
     
  22. Vary

    Vary

    Messages:
    68
    There's a McLaren tune by cbarbosa few pages behind... still wip but very very good
     
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  23. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    This replica has become the tune of this week :

    In case you are wondering why there's no weekly rewind this week, it has been posted in the weekly rewind official thread :

    Enjoy the good read :D

    The TMG 86GT CS V3 Cup car is great for one make races on lower PP, I had great time racing it in A spec career and arcade races. Now, if only there's WRS or GTP club use it as one make race league, I think it could work wonders :p
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
    danbojte and Vary like this.
  24. Vary

    Vary

    Messages:
    68
    Congratulations Ridox! :cheers: Now you make me want to try this car! :cheers:
     
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  25. danbojte

    danbojte

    Messages:
    3,372
    Location:
    Romania
    Can't reach the tranny values. :-(
    Maybe Auto Max Speed to 320?
     
  26. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    Hold on, I am testing the Blackbird at Tsukuba now, will double check on the F40 :)

    @danbojte : Really sorry, I missed the small detail, set final first to 4.000, then set lowest top speed 220kmh, then set each gear, then move final to 2.900

    This should give similar performance to real life as well ( mph speed units ) US stock F40 rolling acceleration :

    60 - 100 : 3.7s
    60 - 130 : 8.6s
    60 - 140 : 10.3s

    Tune has been updated :tup:

    Optimum shift point at 7700RPM, just like real life F40 :)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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  27. Vary

    Vary

    Messages:
    68
    Hey Ridox, i was wondering about making a gt3 replica by myself (my first tune done with "rigor"), and I want ask you some details about making a tune. Usually what parameters do you leave" real life", power and weight (obviously, otherwise what replica will it be?:lol:), gearing (if you can find them) and also suspension and lsd? Thank you very much for your help:)
     
  28. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    Making a replica is a long and tedious process :) You will need to do a lot of research, sometimes not much data can be found online.

    The most important part is getting as much data as possible, reviews of suspension parts and LSD also very useful for aiming a target handling that you are trying to replicate. LSD in real life is very much unlike in GT6 LSD tune that most people use ( low initial, low accel and brake ). If you take a careful look on most tuners here in GTP, they will almost always use low value LSD all the time to make the car safer and easier. Sometimes very low, that the LSD is like an open differential ( when initial, accel and brake are less than 10 ) Most real life LSD are tight, responsive and requires the driver to be more precise with throttle, brake and steering, which will give the best lap time possible, which is why aftermarket LSD on the street can be too much for the non enthusiasts, especially in the rain or snow :lol:. If you read through car enthusiasts forums, and in particular discussing LSD/differential, you will notice that most aftermarket LSD are aggressive with preload, locking ratio, some even gives loud chatter when driven ( this is with clutch type LSD, various type LSD like torsen, helical and quaife have distinct traits in torque response, locking behavior and effectiveness )

    Also, I have posted this in a conversation with @cbarbosa regarding tuning :


    Here are some of the steps that I used to tune cars :

    Before driving and tuning, I would suggest to reset all settings, meaning lowest spring, lowest damper, ARB, neutral toe and camber.

    How do you know how stiff the spring needs to be ? You should consider the type of tires the car going to use dominantly. Racing tires generally requires higher spring. The chassis also affect how stiff it needs to be, an easy way is to increase both front and back from lowest by 2k increments, and drive it, check the body roll and how bouncy the chassis when thrown around. Once you find a set value that gives good feel and the car is firm but not too rigid, you can start altering the spring rate balance.

    Increase either the front and rear to half the range of adjustment, and drive it again, take a note of the handling changes, does the car benefit from higher spring up front or higher rear, or same rate. If the car drives better to you with higher rear or front, increase the ratio by 1.10, stepping up each time, test it and see how it goes. You should meet a spring rate level, where the spring will start giving negative impact on the car handling. That's the sign to step back in value and find the sweet spot, usually 0.5k step.

    Then this :

    Here is a part of my method to tuning cars in GT6 - this is posted at Stratos Difficult Car thread :

    With spring rate set/chosen, time to tune the rest of the suspension ( Deciding the spring rate also can be done in similar method as with damper below - the higher the grip of the tire, the harder the spring, running racing tires with very soft spring is not advisable )

    Damper, here is a simple step that I adapted from the method that I did in real world, start off with all at lowest value, this includes compression, extension, ARB, and zero toe as well as camber. Drive the car on the track where you can be consistent and has variety corners to highlight the car's weakness easily. I would suggest to set the LSD to 5/5/5 first.

    Now, make changes to rear compression only, change to max at 10, and drive for several laps, make a note of how the car handle, go back and reduce by 2, 8 then 6 then 4 and so on, this will take time, so use shorter track if you prefer. Once you feel the rear has better traction and rides the bumps well, continue to adjusting the rear extension, set it at max, then one click higher than compression, then same as compression and 1/2 click lower. Make a note of each setting handling, choose one which gives better stability under acceleration on mid corner and exits. Also pay attention to how the car rotates when braking and turning. Now onto the front damper, with the rear setup done, do the same on the front compression, make a note of each value, how the car behaved under braking, hitting bumps, changing directions and corner entry grip. Set to the value that gives the best feel. Then do the extension, find one that gives good braking ability, less understeer/push on entry.

    Now the damper is done, time for the ARB, as they are set at 1 front and back, the car will have some roll ( depend on the weight, chassis and spring rate strength ). Increase rear to max, and drive the car, notice how the rear has less roll and much more responsive, but usually becomes tight on the limit. Same steps, reduce and drive until you find a value that feels responsive but give the car good rotation. Do the same with front ARB, at max, it should be responsive but very tight when entering mid/high speed, find the spot that balance the response and entry rotation.

    For camber, any value above 0.0 will reduce grip, so use that to your advantage, if you have FF car that still lack in rotation for example, use front 0.0 and rear at 0.5 or above - I don't recommend to go above 1.5, as usually it starts to hit cornering speed and the rear loses grip too easily. For the Stratos, if the front tires is too grippy, use 0.2 for a start, I don't recommend higher than 1.0 as it will be detrimental to front tire grip causing understeer and lower cornering speed. ( this is for 1.08 and below, after 1.09, camber is improved, there are dynamic changes in grip when under peak load / cornering )

    Toe : I usually use real world alignment and there's should be no need to use high value if the spring, damper, ARB and camber sorted out. I rarely use more than toe in or out of 0.30 for simple tuning, replicas sometimes uses more than 0.30, depend on the alignment spec in real life. For FF car, 0.10 toe out or less is usually enough with neutral rear at 0.00. Use both toe in for Stratos - as IRL, Stratos HF Stradale owners used front toe in and neutral rear or same toe in as front ( 1mm to 2mm ), don't go too high as it will induce understeer, 0.15 to 0.19 toe in is more than enough IMO.

    In general, rear damper changes can be felt on mid to exit of corners, while front damper on braking, entry and steering response/stability ( stiffer front damper = more responsive ) Don't go too stiff with damper, it will cause the car to bounce on bumpy road. A good place to test your preferred damper is at Bathurst and Nurburgring GP/F.

    It takes time, sometimes you may drive up to 300km or more fine tuning the suspension.

    For LSD basics :

    the higher the initial, the less changes to occur between left and right wheel, but this will cause to car to be tighter/understeer.

    higher accel : more understeer/tight, better traction, more responsive to throttle, but can be very edgy - break traction suddenly.

    higher braking : stable braking, lessen lift off oversteer, tighter entry.


    I would highly advise you to try the method above :) it's slow and tedious, but good for learning the intricacies of tuning in GT6. I would recommend short track that you are most familiar, where there are tight corners, medium speed and high speed sweeper, something like Tsukuba, Ascari, Brands Hatch GP etc.


    And more :


    I also add that different car layout requires different approach in spring rate, damper and ARB tuning. For FF car, starting with spring, increase front 1st then rear for nose heavy car then go from there, sometimes lower spring rate at the front work well too. For FR, you have to consider the weight distribution, stiffer rear usually gives more rotation. For MR, lower spring ratio ( closer between front and rear ) usually works best, also heavily depend on how much heavier the rear end is, sometimes lower spring rate at the rear works great ( NSX for example which is similar in real life )

    For RR, usually with more than 60% weight at the rear, you will have to use high ratio spring, about 1.30 to 1.5, and even 2.0+, this means you could have 6kg/mm front and 12kg/mm rear or 6kg/mm front and 7.8kg/mm rear. Most of the time, the closer the spring rate difference on RR cars, the handling becomes less responsive, with front lower usually ends in understeer on entry. Never stop experimenting, the most important step is choosing spring rate that works best to you. Sometimes RR/MR cars works great with lower rear spring.

    Damper tuning also depend on car layout, with FF you can start with rear damper then front, while FR, MR and RR, you can start with front damper, then rear. For AWD, depend on the car handling balance and torque split, you can start with rear damper 1st :) In general, at the front damper, high value increase response, too high comp and ext will increase tightness, high comp, low ext will slow the steering response and entry to mid corner ability. For rear damper, the higher value, the more rotation usually it gives, too high comp, the rear will lose traction easily, high comp, low ext will make the rear slower to rotate on exit and sluggish in high speed steering. Easy rule step, always tune comp first then ext.

    So, in summary, use stock ride height,1st step : spring rate, 2nd step : lower ride height until you find the car more stable but not bottoming out on bumpy tracks, best to test it at Foxhole ( green hell ), 3rd step : damper tuning, 4th step : ARB, 5th step : toe and camber. During suspension tuning, you can always fiddle with LSD. Revisit ride height again if necessary.


    You can actually use LSD to produce certain type of tune, on a oversteer prone car, use LSD that will induce understeer, then tune suspension to balance it or vice versa. You will need to know your goal in tuning the car, make it safer, a replica, endurance race or hotlap/TT.

    And last, a tune made well is not always fool proof, you will often needs to make small changes when the tune is driven on different track, testing the tune on variety of tracks is good practice if the time allows, but often you will find that you will keep changing things on different tracks :lol: Sometimes you need to find a middle point/compromise :p

    If you try my F40 US version replica, it has variety of ride height, and 3 sets of LSD, the tune has been made to work with all of them. Lower front on ride height gives less rotation, while lower rear gives more rotation. Try all ride high setup, and notice how the ride height difference affects the car, then use the 3 different LSD initial on each ride height setup to understand how certain ride height difference can work together with certain initial torque value LSD - also depend on driving style ( match the low front/high rear ride height with lower initial :) )
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  29. danbojte

    danbojte

    Messages:
    3,372
    Location:
    Romania
    ib, Super Car Festival, SM, STD settings, ABS 0 (7/6) - Winner!

    Super, Ascari 10 laps, SM, STD settings, ABS 0 (7/6) - Winner!

    Pretty unstable, pilot car but interesting. :tup:
     
    Ridox2JZGTE likes this.
  30. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    I see you are using STD setup, if you find the rear rotate too quickly, use the lower front track ride height ( 81/101 ), and if the 40/27/27 LSD too tight, use the 37/27/27 or 17/27/27 :) If these don't work well, use the 12kg/mm spring all around on standard ride height 101/101 and 37/27/27 LSD :cheers:

    The unstable feeling is from the higher camber at the rear :) as I used real life camber alignment from 355 spec, how I wish camber and ride height is not broken :grumpy: it's glaring issue when making replicas :banghead: Lowering rear camber will add more grip to the rear :)
     
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